Where we are at now and how we got there (8 Viewers)

[dongonzalos]

“I think the fans want us to have at least 50 per cent or own 100pc of the stadium company at this stage. It is a tragedy that it’s all come to this." JS......


A small summary of how I think we got to the tragedy from what I have picked up from here. .......

Cov screw up by selling HR and chasing one of the best stadiums in the country. Far too ambitious.....

Project goes belly up, council and Higgs step in to stop Coventry going to oblivion.

Company called ACL is formed to run the Ricoh. CCFC given choice of sliding rent depending on promotion/relegation or attendances. CCFC choose a fixed rent instead. This is determined by the 900k (approx) rent CCFC were paying at HR after it was sold.
It is set at 1.2 million. The logic of the club was immediate return to the prem and this would be cheaper than a sliding rent.
(At this time FFP not as significant as today)

CCFC head for administration SISU step in before administration and buy the club. Not sure why they did this, as it would have been cheaper to pick the club up after administration.
The only thought process suggested in here was to avoid a ten point drop and go straight for promotion. Another was by buying before admin they got no competition.

SISU's plan A promotion fails.

SISU give up on Plan A but unfortunately hire Onye and KD who make series of bad decisions.

SISU push to get the club to break even point leading to loss of players and a further relegation to division 3. During this time as part of the aim to get the business to break even point, SISU begin rent negotiations.

Also during this period SISU begin negotiations to buy the Higgs share of ACL. A HOT is agreed. However during this time period the rent negotiations become acrimonious. SISU agree a rent deal but then don't see it through.

Seeing as both parties that were in the rent negotiations are also the people doing the sale negotiations. Both lose their appetite to do the deal. The council then buy out the loan from the bank. This really scuppers SISU's new Plan B. JS apparently tells the council she will drag them through the courts over this.

SISU move the club out of Coventry to Northampton. Say they will build a new ground and take out a JR against the council.

The JR is won by the Council the Judge concludes that SISU's plan B was to distress ACL in order to get it cheaply.

SISU's actions it seems have distressed ACL somewhat and it seems devalued the company.

SISU return to the Ricoh on a temporary deal still adamant a new stadium will be built.

A consortium who own wasps are watching with interest. They take advantage of SISU's hard work and get half of ACL at the new lower price.

The council know that bringing top level rugby to the Ricoh will bring money, redevelopment and jobs to Coventry. They have someone who wants to do the deal for the whole lot straight away no messing. They are always going to do this deal.

However it is done with such secrecy and rushed through once it was made public. It is highly possible they did not want the football club to have an opportunity to counter bid.

( just my opinion they did not want SISU to benefit from devaluing ACL. I also think that by getting sued and attacked meant they did not want to do business with SISU if they could avoid it.
I also think they do not believe a new stadium will be built so they get the best of both worlds Wasps and CCFC at the Ricoh)

A legal technically leads SISU getting an opportunity to bid for ACL's share.

That's how I think we have got to what Joy calls this 'tragedy'

 

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[Samo]

Do you like watching train wrecks over and over Don?

 

[dongonzalos]

Do you like watching train wrecks over and over Don?

How did you know

 

[italiahorse]

“I think the fans want us to have at least 50 per cent or own 100pc of the stadium company at this stage. It is a tragedy that it’s all come to this." JS......


A small summary of how I think we got to the tragedy from what I have picked up from here. .......

Cov screw up by selling HR and chasing one of the best stadiums in the country. Far too ambitious...
Good plan and a move in the right direction for a club like Coventry. Fell down on the financing which obviously now was too ambitious.
Project goes belly up, council and Higgs step in to stop Coventry going to oblivion.
People forget this. It was a close vote at the time and the council came good.
Company called ACL is formed to run the Ricoh. CCFC given choice of sliding rent depending on promotion/relegation or attendances. CCFC choose a fixed rent instead. This is determined by the 900k (approx) rent CCFC were paying at HR after it was sold.
It is set at 1.2 million. The logic of the club was immediate return to the prem and this would be cheaper than a sliding rent.
(At this time FFP not as significant as today)
Agree
CCFC head for administration SISU step in before administration and buy the club. Not sure why they did this, as it would have been cheaper to pick the club up after administration.
The only thought process suggested in here was to avoid a ten point drop and go straight for promotion. Another was by buying before admin they got no competition.
​Agree. In retrospect IMHO administration would have been better at the time but we were all happy at the time.
SISU's plan A promotion fails.
Needed to tread water for a few years. Time to get things like rent renegotiated and others costs down.
SISU give up on Plan A but unfortunately hire Onye and KD who make series of bad decisions.
Unclear on this period, it all seems foggy.
SISU push to get the club to break even point leading to loss of players and a further relegation to division 3. During this time as part of the aim to get the business to break even point, SISU begin rent negotiations.
Needed to be done but also needed to maintain Championship status.
Also during this period SISU begin negotiations to buy the Higgs share of ACL. A HOT is agreed. However during this time period the rent negotiations become acrimonious. SISU agree a rent deal but then don't see it through.
Unsure whether we really know whats going on now.
Seeing as both parties that were in the rent negotiations are also the people doing the sale negotiations. Both lose their appetite to do the deal. The council then buy out the loan from the bank. This really scuppers SISU's new Plan B. JS apparently tells the council she will drag them through the courts over this
Fortunately ACL had other income streams. Stadiums like with just a bowl would have fell into their hands.
SISU move the club out of Coventry to Northampton. Say they will build a new ground and take out a JR against the council.
They are still believing in plan B
The JR is won by the Council the Judge concludes that SISU's plan B was to distress ACL in order to get it cheaply.
As everybody knew.
SISU's actions it seems have distressed ACL somewhat and it seems devalued the company.
Agree
SISU return to the Ricoh on a temporary deal still adamant a new stadium will be built.
The death rattle of Plan B lingers on.
A consortium who own wasps are watching with interest. They take advantage of SISU's hard work and get half of ACL at the new lower price.
Agree
The council know that bringing top level rugby to the Ricoh will bring money, redevelopment and jobs to Coventry. They have someone who wants to do the deal for the whole lot straight away no messing. They are always going to do this deal.
Agree
However it is done with such secrecy and rushed through once it was made public. It is highly possible they did not want the football club to have an opportunity to counter bid.
Agree
( just my opinion they did not want SISU to benefit from devaluing ACL. I also think that by getting sued and attacked meant they did not want to do business with SISU if they could avoid it.
Agree. Would you ?
I also think they do not believe a new stadium will be built so they get the best of both worlds Wasps and CCFC at the Ricoh)
Agree
A legal technically leads SISU getting an opportunity to bid for ACL's share. cause
Although technically because it's CCFC Ltd it has no chance in reality, so just a paperwork exercise. Dotting the I's and crossing the T's.
That's how I think we have got to what Joy calls this 'tragedy'mitted
I guess she has admitted the blame for most of it ? ............ NOT

 

[italiahorse]

Do you like watching train wrecks over and over Don?

If we knew all the real facts, behind the scenes, it would make a great read.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[CCFC PimpRail]

Look at the positives- soon ccfc will be playing in their "own" stadium and directly benefiting from the extra revenue that only a few gypsy weddings and teapot salesmans conferences can provide...

 

[Evo1883]

Its not one of the countries best stadiums , why do people keep spouting that rubbish

 

[dongonzalos]

Its not one of the countries best stadiums , why do people keep spouting that rubbish

What I actually said was
The original project was for one of the countries best stadium. Retractable pitch roof ect too ambitious

 

[italiahorse]

Its not one of the countries best stadiums , why do people keep spouting that rubbish

Your right.
The Olympic Committee considered it 'world class' for football.

Admittedly, it needs personalising and with League 1 crowds it's like rattling in a tin box.
Hopefully Wasps will do the job Sisu could have done and improve the facilities to full PL standard.

 

[Evo1883]

Your right.
The Olympic Committee considered it 'world class' for football.

Admittedly, it needs personalising and with League 1 crowds it's like rattling in a tin box.
Hopefully Wasps will do the job Sisu could have done and improve the facilities to full PL standard.

it is no different to grounds like saint marys , pride park or the walkers stadium , stadium MK is far superior

 

[Sick Boy]

Your right.
The Olympic Committee considered it 'world class' for football.

Admittedly, it needs personalising and with League 1 crowds it's like rattling in a tin box.
Hopefully Wasps will do the job Sisu could have done and improve the facilities to full PL standard.

Why would Wasps personalise their ground for us? Or being a Wasps fan, maybe you mean it should be personalised for them?

I agree with the above comments, the Ricoh is nothing special and is just another early 00's bowl. Those who bang on about it being world class are the one's who have their comments up the council's arse.

 

[italiahorse]

it is no different to grounds like saint marys , pride park or the walkers stadium , stadium MK is far superior

I like Stadium MK for the 2 tiers but the facilities behind, in the away end, were poor.
At least the Ricoh has additional facilities like the casino and exhibition halls just to give it that edge.

I'm sure Wasps will be putting on a beer fest in the halls again before matches.

 

[Evo1883]

I like Stadium MK for the 2 tiers but the facilities behind, in the away end, were poor.
At least the Ricoh has additional facilities like the casino and exhibition halls just to give it that edge.

I'm sure Wasps will be putting on a beer fest in the halls again before matches.

Granted its additional features seperate the stadium from other sporting grounds , but on terms of the actual arena , its too similar to many others .
in terms of looks in regards to new stadia , i would put mk and the etihad design wise as the best about

 

[italiahorse]

Why would Wasps personalise their ground for us? Or being a Wasps fan, maybe you mean it should be personalised for them?

I agree with the above comments, the Ricoh is nothing special and is just another early 00's bowl. Those who bang on about it being world class are the one's who have their comments up the council's arse.

Why would Wasps not personalise for their customers.
Sisu/CCFC/Us need to seize the opportunity to make the stadium what we want.

This is the time for Sisu to negotiate and get what CCFC/Fans need. Something they should have done as a proviso to taking over CCFC in the first place.
Instead they persist with the JR and talk of a new stadium which really will just stop any negotiations with Wasps in their tracks.

 

[italiahorse]

Granted its additional features seperate the stadium from other sporting grounds , but on terms of the actual arena , its too similar to many others .
in terms of looks in regards to new stadia , i would put mk and the etihad design wise as the best about

Agree.

 

[Sick Boy]

Why would Wasps not personalise for their customers.
Sisu/CCFC/Us need to seize the opportunity to make the stadium what we want.

This is the time for Sisu to negotiate and get what CCFC/Fans need. Something they should have done as a proviso to taking over CCFC in the first place.
Instead they persist with the JR and talk of a new stadium which really will just stop any negotiations with Wasps in their tracks.

The demi-God Ray Ranson was in charge of running the club then and at the time didn't run into any criticism from his clapping seals for saying that purchasing the Ricoh wasn't a priority. The stadium is theirs, not ours.

It is interesting that you are going to support a franchise team owned by a hedge fund, funnily enough, it isn't surprising.

 

[Evo1883]

If i could get hold of the ricoh myself , i would add a tier all the way around whilst reducing the capacity to around 26500, it is desperately missing the "good old fashioned " football ground features

 

[Sick Boy]

If i could get hold of the ricoh myself , i would add a tier all the way around whilst reducing the capacity to around 26500, it is desperately missing the "good old fashioned " football ground features

I agree and i'd tell Wasps to fuck off as well.

 

[dongonzalos]

You've missed the point the stadium we were ORIGINALLY going after was to be one of the best on England. It was way way too ambitious.

The stadium we ended up with is probably in the top twenty stadiums.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

That's a matter of opinion I happen to think it is One of the top 10 stadiums in this country.....

Name me all the stadiums in this country that are better then the Ricoh.

Its not one of the countries best stadiums , why do people keep spouting that rubbish

 

[letsallsingtogether]

it is no different to grounds like saint marys , pride park or the walkers stadium , stadium MK is far superior

That is where you are wrong they have a stadium they do not have all the other facilities under one roof, making the Ricoh unique.

 

[italiahorse]

The demi-God Ray Ranson was in charge of running the club then and at the time didn't run into any criticism from his clapping seals for saying that purchasing the Ricoh wasn't a priority. The stadium is theirs, not ours.

It is interesting that you are going to support a franchise team owned by a hedge fund, funnily enough, it isn't surprising.

You need to get over it.

You don't know what you want, you just blindly criticise everything and offer no way forward.
There are lots of people like you. Wasters.

 

[Colin1883]

Does anyone know the state of the club's finances before the advent of the prem league? ... The ling slow decline of the could probably be traced back ro the start of it and chasing the dream...

 

[letsallsingtogether]

So where does the Ricoh stand as far as stadiums go there are 91 clubs in the top 4 divisions I see city in the top 10%.
So newer stadiums are coming along may push us down a place or 2.

 

[DaleM]

Fuckin hell. What can you do with a football pitch and four stands , should get GOK in and sort it or something ? The Ricoh is one of the best stadia in the country . It just needs a sucessful team to make it their own . Hopefully CCFC not Wasps.

 

[SkyBlueSid]

Look at the positives- soon ccfc will be playing in their "own" stadium and directly benefiting from the extra revenue that only a few gypsy weddings and teapot salesmans conferences can provide...

I believe Walsall have a Sunday market in the car park. I can imagine it now. Stalls full of old clothes, dodgy DVDs and second hand books. And Tim Fisher flogging greasy burgers out of an old caravan. That's what you call a revenue stream!

 

[ccfcway]

[h=2]Where we are at now : League One
and how we got there : SISU[/h]

 

[Evo1883]

That's a matter of opinion I happen to think it is One of the top 10 stadiums in this country.....

Name me all the stadiums in this country that are better then the Ricoh.

Old trafford , etihad , emirates , st james park , ipro stadium, stamford bridge , anfield , white hart lane , stadium mk , the amex .
its also on par or identical almost to grounds like st marys , the walkers stadium the riverside stadium and sunderlands stadium of light
i also prefer the design of swanseas liberty stadium , its smaller but is just nicer .
What do you believe is better about the ricoh .... Its ordinary

 

[Evo1883]

That is where you are wrong they have a stadium they do not have all the other facilities under one roof, making the Ricoh unique.

We are talking about the football stadium , not the added extras , to look at its the same as many circa 2000 bowls that were built

 

[italiahorse]

We are talking about the football stadium , not the added extras , to look at its the same as many circa 2000 bowls that were built

No doubt it is a great stadium and fit for the PL.
It can be improved once all the crap settles down and we get everybody working together.
Getting CCFC tied in needs to happen so I hope Wasps take this on board.
That won't happen without access to incremental football incomes and I believe Wasps have suggested this.
Not sure how they feel about "The Pie and Beer" Stadium and the JR but hopefully the nonsense will soon stop and they are already talking.

Atmosphere needs to improve but that needs to start on the field.

 

[bezzer]

That won't happen without access to incremental football incomes and I believe Wasps have suggested this.

Excuse my ignorance, but what are these?

 

[italiahorse]

Excuse my ignorance, but what are these?

If there's a football match on then the incremental income profits go to CCFC.

Any stadium sponsorship for Football matches goes to CCFC etc etc
Car parking profits from car parking for football matches goes to CCFC etc etc

It's in Wasps interest IMHO to work towards this and get CCFC to commit to the Ricoh for a long term.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Old trafford , etihad , emirates , st james park , ipro stadium, stamford bridge , anfield , white hart lane , stadium mk , the amex .
its also on par or identical almost to grounds like st marys , the walkers stadium the riverside stadium and sunderlands stadium of light
i also prefer the design of swanseas liberty stadium , its smaller but is just nicer .
What do you believe is better about the ricoh .... Its ordinary

Old Trafford very big but the only thing I found impressive is how quick it can empty when they are two nil down,Etihad never been why would I but look at the cost,Emirates was expecting a lot better nice curved stands thats proberly where the extra 2-300 million went,Ipro no better than Ricoh,Stamford Bridge the last time I went there the Shed looked like well a shed,Anfield nice gates,White Hart Lane tired old lady,Stadium MK nice padded seats,Amex never been cant comment,Walkers or whatever its now called unfinished,Liberty didn't like it same for Riverside,St james hated it after I and most of the city fans nearly died after going up those fucking steps,and wouldn't go to sunderland. But each to his own.

 

[Covstu]

The Ricoh as a complex is class, the facilities at the stadium are excellent and the links around the ground are good. I agree with Craig slightly in that it was a cookie cutter 00's design like many others in that era but that doesnt make it average, it just doesnt make it too unique.

It does lack a bit of character however, they need to make it their own which sadly will never happen. The ground is better than alot of premier league grounds still, just a shame we dont have a friggin stake in the place!

The original design was way too ambitious, retractable pitch and roof, japanese toilets that dry your ass etc! Was originally designed to be like Ajax but ended up being a ground like others in the league. Doesnt make it a bad ground just not very unique. Still dont know why people cream over MK Dons stadium to be honest...