Grendel
Well-Known Member
Where's OSB when you need him....
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He pretty much says the same as me.
Could Otium (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter dongonzalos
- Start date
He pretty much says the same as me.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The councils interest is represented by 2 directors one is West. Don't please start saying they are not actually councillors.
Out of interest do you Don or BSB own 50% of a private limited company?
I do.
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
They are not councillors, so please don't start saying they actually are. For someone who goes round calling others naive for trying to get some information, you don't half get things wrong at times.
You usually make a good argument, you make some great points, but there's a danger you'll start coming across as an arrogant fool when there is no need.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't own any shares. As far as I know though you don't have to own something to have a valid opinion about it.
If you wanted to sell your shares, who will have the final decision?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The other owner as we have found out
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
So the shareholders have the final say.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No as the shareholder is the other director and strangely votes against any other proposal
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The other question is why bid then?
Unless SISU are meeting wasps desperately and explaining what they can bring to the table in a partnership if wasps allow them in?
Unless SISU are meeting wasps desperately and explaining what they can bring to the table in a partnership if wasps allow them in?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
My argument was about a joint CCFC-Wasps held ACL being the best for all parties and for a larger bid being best for the Higgs in particular. Where does holding half of a PLC come into it? Do those who own the other half of your company know you find contracts to be 'there to be broken'?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
If Higgs get more money for their shared they get the money - how does that help ACL?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
They are bidding as they think it may mean they get info for the JR appeal oh and to join in the game.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The joint CCFC-Wasps arrangement helps ACL for reasons I've given elsewhere.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well if I was presented with a partner who owed £30 plus million in debt and required significant equity to generate any future value as opposed to owning 100% myself I know what i would pick. If go it alone.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The JR appeal......
if wasps complete 100% and SISU win the appeal. There will be no remedy by the judge so what is the aim?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Numerous reasons screaming out.
If the debt is isolated and does not come with the ACL deal. The risk is minimal in comparison to the potential gains
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Do you actually think there are only 2 directors, LOL. Actually there are 7.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
If they won the appeal - highly unlikely - then they would now have significant claim for damages.
Look its obvious that the council have problems with ACL meeting its commitments to pay a state loan. They wanted out quickly. This would support an argument for sisu but they will never win the JR due to the rent strike and the council can always argue that caused the distress.
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
That reply was in response to a different question.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No there are two.
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by isolating the debt, and how would this happen? Who would be paying it back?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
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Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
Jack, let it go, he was talking about a company he has.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The debt is owed purely to SISU.
Otium as a company merge with the wasps consortium.
SISU take responsibility for the 30 million debt.
When SISU in future decide to sell their share in the new merged company.
They offset the profit from their debt to give their investors a proportion of their debt back.
If the new company is ran properly and both CCFC and Wasps are successful on the pitch ACL will thrive. It will automatically increase in value just by getting the deal done.
Over the years as a profit making company, if CCFC get promotion in the future. The moment they have a successful championship campaign. In that January you sell your share of ACL to someone with a dream of the premiership. Offset the profits of that against the 30 million debt.
You won't clear it all but, possibly half it. Which is better than any alternative I can see.
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Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
ok, I thought you were talking about the ACL debt.
In your scenario above I think they would have to set up a new company rather than merge Otium, but I think it falls down before then as I can't see why Wasps would want to take on part funding a football clubs promotion campaign, it's too big a risk, and I imagine they must be confident that they can make money from 100% ownership, I just can't see why they would want to share any of this with anyone else, let alone a company that has shown, and in fact proud of, getting everyone in court.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
But surely what you are talking about is ccfc and wasps co-owning ACL. Not a merger.
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
But surely what you are talking about is ccfc and wasps co-owning ACL. Not a merger.
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No because everyone is saying SISU's offer will be declined.
SISU won't sell to Wasps.
SISU can't afford wasps
A new stadium is ridiculous
SISU maintain long term rent can't work.
For me that leaves a merger with SISU and Wasps consortium owning shares.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Which then leads to the point why and how can it work? Why would wasps want it? What would wasps spend all that money to get all the revenues to make themselves sustainable, just to hand over half to the football club? Surely wasps would want some cash incentive upfront?
How would the football club mount a successful campaign in the championship? Who's going to inject the £10m+ per annum necessary to do that?
It's one of those things that sounds good on paper but in reality i can't see working. It then goes back to the fact that ACL isn't profitable enough to fund losses for both the rugby club and the football club.
How much does the club bring into ACL? F&B's was c£1m when there were 16k, so at present £650k revenue but only c£65k profit (23% of that is Compass's), £200k rent, £50k car parking?
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
That's nice but if you can read I'm talking about my company not acl
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Which then leads to the point why and how can it work? Why would wasps want it? What would wasps spend all that money to get all the revenues to make themselves sustainable, just to hand over half to the football club? Surely wasps would want some cash incentive upfront?
How would the football club mount a successful campaign in the championship? Who's going to inject the £10m+ per annum necessary to do that?
It's one of those things that sounds good on paper but in reality i can't see working. It then goes back to the fact that ACL isn't profitable enough to fund losses for both the rugby club and the football club.
How much does the club bring into ACL? F&B's was c£1m when there were 16k, so at present £650k revenue but only c£65k profit (23% of that is Compass's), £200k rent, £50k car parking?
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ACL was not successful recently because someone was actively trying to distress it.
Wasps incentive is that they ensure CCFC stay at the Ricoh generating profits for ACL.
Surely you can see that that for wasps is far better than CCFC not been there in 5 years time.
A symbiotic relationship.
SISU just become a shareholder in the knew merged company.
The better the the business is ran the greater the value of ACL.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
ACL wasn't particularly successful when we were paying them £1.3m rent.
Of course us being there is more profitable for wasps than us not being there, but that doesn't mean it's in their interests to merge and hand over half the profits from ACL which they will own in its entirety.
I still can't see how it can work, or why wasps would want it. As I said earlier the only way it could work is as 50:50 partners of ACL, failing that wasps will want to tie us up to long term rent deal, they won't want a merger with a business that's pretty much gone into insolvency twice. Far too much risk to them than us leaving and building a new ground.
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J
Jack Griffin
Guest
No, you were talking about ACL & West being the director who he seemed to think was a Councillor, he only mentioned his own company in passing, that was not the topic, just an aside.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
ACL wasn't particularly successful when we were paying them £1.3m rent.
Of course us being there is more profitable for wasps than us not being there, but that doesn't mean it's in their interests to merge and hand over half the profits from ACL which they will own in its entirety.
I still can't see how it can work, or why wasps would want it. As I said earlier the only way it could work is as 50:50 partners of ACL, failing that wasps will want to tie us up to long term rent deal, they won't want a merger with a business that's pretty much gone into insolvency twice. Far too much risk to them than us leaving and building a new ground.
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I hope you are not right
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
That leave me with Wasps/ACL waiting for CCFC to sort out their own problems, if they can. That I think is where it is.
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
Ok, keep digging then.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Wrong. Hasn't Ann even taught you to read the whole thread yet before doing her bidding?