Wasps do have the veto (12 Viewers)

[Neutral Fan]

No idea why everyone seems so unhappy - for the record I don't care about franchising in rugby.

But you'll likely care if SISU franchise you to Brum. Or what if MGI Fiduciary Services (Malta) (owners of Wasps and the Ricoh) franchise say Burnley to the Ricoh? Bigger town, more chance of staying in the PL if they play in Cov.

 

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[Moff]

But wasn't that also the case when Worcester set up an academy in Coventry to syphon off best young talent, and nobody said a word?

Out of interest where is the Worcester academy in Coventry?
I thought they just had the local rights to scout talent in the area?

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Who's happy, really? The ones who are happy are spider-ricoh et al. Not me that's for sure.

I thought it was worth pointing out that you're all too quick to jump on a grendel or torch post. Less so for anyone else. Why is that?

Great post! Why bother trying to fight for CCFC when you can post stuff like this

 

[Ian1779]

But you'll likely care if SISU franchise you to Brum. Or what if MGI Fiduciary Services (Malta) (owners of Wasps and the Ricoh) franchise say Burnley to the Ricoh? Bigger town, more chance of staying in the PL if they play in Cov.

Firstly - stop going on about the franchising. It's not gonna happen.

Secondly... according to the council we are about to be joining Birmingham anyway... so it's not technically franchising as we will be in the same 'area'

 

[covmark]

The plan is for Wasps to be one of the biggest players in European rugby. CRFC and third-tier. In footballing terms, that would be like comparing Chelsea with Bristol City. Yes, Coventry would always be the smaller relation in the relationship; but to pretend anything other than that is the case would be to defy logic. But wasn't that also the case when Worcester set up an academy in Coventry to syphon off best young talent, and nobody said a word?

Worcester weren't muscling their way into the local football stadium though, were they?

 

[MichaelCCFC]

You seem to forget that you broadcast your blinkered view with your regular KCiC mailings. And i still don't recall any criticism of the council.

If it makes you happy to think I never criticised the council then you believe it but it's not true and I'm sure the very best way to fight for ccfc now is for people to post endless stuff about the council.

 

[stupot07]

The plan is for Wasps to be one of the biggest players in European rugby. CRFC and third-tier. In footballing terms, that would be like comparing Chelsea with Bristol City. Yes, Coventry would always be the smaller relation in the relationship; but to pretend anything other than that is the case would be to defy logic. But wasn't that also the case when Worcester set up an academy in Coventry to syphon off best young talent, and nobody said a word?

Ah the bigger picture.....me, me, me

They hadn't made that clear, i feel ok now I know the bigger picture...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[MichaelCCFC]

2012? Before the dispute even began... right then.

As for what I am going to do to fight for CCFC - I'll do what most fans should do in my opinion. I will go to every game I can, I will support my club irrespective of owner, manager, players or league we ply our trade in.

If we have to build a new ground and we do - I will go. I won't hide behind any excuses about location or owner or anything else. I won't bang on about how long i've supported CCFC for as if it gives me some hereditary right to consider myself a more superior supporter.

Whether you percieve that as being a good fan or not is of no concern to me. People might pander to your bullshit but I won't. I respect your commitment to CCFC but seriously disagree with your motive and agenda.

When all else fails use the "motive and agenda" line. Go on, enlighten me - what exactly is my motive and agenda?

 

[Moff]

If it makes you happy to think I never criticised the council then you believe it but it's not true and I'm sure the very best way to fight for ccfc is to post endless stuff about the council.

So says the man posting endless posts about other posters. Ironic really as that also doesn't appear to be the best way to fight for CCFC either.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Whilst I commend Nick Eastwood for trying to engage the local Rugby community, I still feel its like the big boys entertaining the local yokels, as its something they feel they have to do, just another tick in a box.

Whether that is the case or not, I hope they fail badly. We already have local Rugby teams in the area, who have long been established, without some London club muscling in for a piece of the action. Many may disagree but I really would love to see them fail, and do a double deal and bugger off with SISU.

Don't totally disagree with you. But kinda do too. Coventry were a big club almost 40 years ago now. Rugby Lions were the last top flight club in the area, and that was early '90s - so 20+ years ago. However, the area has always produced talent - the likes of Cockerill, Back, Ford, Hamilton, who have all left the area to play top-flight rugby. Future players like that may now stay locally, and progress from junior clubs, through Coventry and then maybe onto Wasps. To think these players would stay and help Coventry back to the former times and not move on outside of the area without Wasps being around is unrealistic

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Ah the bigger picture.....me, me, me

They hadn't made that clear, i feel ok now I know the bigger picture...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

No, there is a bigger picture beyond that; but why should I bother? You've probably already got your Fuzzy Felt chart of pre-prepared anti-council-rhetoric-stickers at the ready

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The plan is for Wasps to be one of the biggest players in European rugby. CRFC and third-tier. In footballing terms, that would be like comparing Chelsea with Bristol City. Yes, Coventry would always be the smaller relation in the relationship; but to pretend anything other than that is the case would be to defy logic. But wasn't that also the case when Worcester set up an academy in Coventry to syphon off best young talent, and nobody said a word?

This arrangement guarantees Cov Rugby will permanently be the smaller rugby club in its own city. I'm no follower of rugby so wasn't aware of the Worcester arrangement which is just as insulting a set-up. What I want is for all the city's sports teams to succeed and that will not happen if local talent is sent elsewhere and it definitely will not happen with an imported franchise setting up shop here. The best attended rugby club in England, Saracens, can't even pull in 15,000 a week. It's pathetic.

 

[Moff]

Don't totally disagree with you. But kinda do too. Coventry were a big club almost 40 years ago now. Rugby Lions were the last top flight club in the area, and that was early '90s - so 20+ years ago. However, the area has always produced talent - the likes of Cockerill, Back, Ford, Hamilton, who have all left the area to play top-flight rugby. Future players like that may now stay locally, and progress from junior clubs, through Coventry and then maybe onto Wasps. To think these players would stay and help Coventry back to the former times and not move on outside of the area without Wasps being around is unrealistic

Its catching this. I kind of agree and kind of dont. I would love to see local talent stay local, sadly I personally feel that if it were with wasps it just wouldn't feel local, and would feel false.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The plan is for Wasps to be one of the biggest players in European rugby. CRFC and third-tier. In footballing terms, that would be like comparing Chelsea with Bristol City. Yes, Coventry would always be the smaller relation in the relationship; but to pretend anything other than that is the case would be to defy logic. But wasn't that also the case when Worcester set up an academy in Coventry to syphon off best young talent, and nobody said a word?

Eyebrows would be raised however if Chelsea suddenly set up in partnership with UWE. I get the point, but then there are always swings in sport. Not *that* many years ago (relatively speaking, anyway!) that Chelsea were on a par with Bristol City (both near bankrupt, for that matter!) and not *that* many years since Rugby could boast a top tier Rugby club. Not *that* many years ago Coventry weren't overly poor, and even less years since they spoke of buying into the top tier themselves...

I suppose lower budgets in Rugby suggest that clubs can grow (Exeter as an example?) with relatively little investment compared to football, but it's as much about cutting off their supply line, surely? Once Wasps are here, CRFC go from having little hope... to having to wait for Wasps to either succeed or fail.

Do take your point about the academy though, although that's as much a sop to trying to keep the current richest clubs up there (wasn't it the Worcester owner who wanted to protect from relegation to protect investments, or is my mind playing tricks and it was another of them?). The way Rugby Union goes, to me, risks losing it of much of its identity in this country, much as Rugby League. If it makes the national team stronger... dunno, tbh. There always seems to be a new way forward to follow, in any sport!

Edit: Yup, it was Duckworth: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8964666.stm

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Worcester weren't muscling their way into the local football stadium though, were they?

I was talking in the context of people sudden concern about CRFC. Some folk on here have a long-standing liking of rugby. Others - who, when I suggested local rugby as a potential pursuit at the time of Sixfields non-attendance - were quick to quip 'fuck egg-chasing'. Yet seem suddenly very educated on and concerned with egg-chasing right now

 

[stupot07]

No, there is a bigger picture beyond that; but why should I bother? You've probably already got your Fuzzy Felt chart of pre-prepared anti-council-rhetoric-stickers at the ready

Ah, so they're doing some politicking and you've bought it all hook, line and sink?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Don't totally disagree with you. But kinda do too. Coventry were a big club almost 40 years ago now. Rugby Lions were the last top flight club in the area, and that was early '90s - so 20+ years ago. However, the area has always produced talent - the likes of Cockerill, Back, Ford, Hamilton, who have all left the area to play top-flight rugby. Future players like that may now stay locally, and progress from junior clubs, through Coventry and then maybe onto Wasps. To think these players would stay and help Coventry back to the former times and not move on outside of the area without Wasps being around is unrealistic

Wasps' presence takes these chances from being possible to impossible. Though much as few people care that the Blaze were imported from Solihull I suspect if the latest franchise on the block does well people will soon forget about this other rugby club called Coventry.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

This arrangement guarantees Cov Rugby will permanently be the smaller rugby club in its own city. I'm no follower of rugby so wasn't aware of the Worcester arrangement which is just as insulting a set-up. What I want is for all the city's sports teams to succeed and that will not happen if local talent is sent elsewhere and it definitely will not happen with an imported franchise setting up shop here. The best attended rugby club in England, Saracens, can't even pull in 15,000 a week. It's pathetic.

It already happens. Worcester established 6 (I recall) satellite academies earlier this year, so all 'talent' is routed in our area to them. One at Broadstreet, one in Warwick. It already happens. If anyone thinks that - right now - CRFC have the pick of our area's talent, they're wrong

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Ah, so they're doing some politicking and you've bought it all hook, line and sink?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I was there to take a view; which you weren't. But you've still got one

 

[torchomatic]

Ah, i see. I thought "the bigger picture" might be regeneration of the locale or details of all those promised jobs. But no, it's about being Billy Big Bollocks.

The plan is for Wasps to be one of the biggest players in European rugby. CRFC and third-tier. In footballing terms, that would be like comparing Chelsea with Bristol City. Yes, Coventry would always be the smaller relation in the relationship; but to pretend anything other than that is the case would be to defy logic. But wasn't that also the case when Worcester set up an academy in Coventry to syphon off best young talent, and nobody said a word?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It already happens. Worcester established 6 (I recall) satellite academies earlier this year, so all 'talent' is routed in our area to them. One at Broadstreet, one in Warwick. It already happens. If anyone thinks that - right now - CRFC have the pick of our area's talent, they're wrong

Are those arrangements permanent?

 

[MichaelCCFC]

So says the man posting endless posts about other posters. Ironic really as that also doesn't appear to be the best way to fight for CCFC either.

Just my opinion of course.

What's getting to me is there is a real opportunity for some unity about the dire situation we are in and saying sisu-ccc-wasps-fl and anyone else you want to include are all harming ccfc and the only people who care are City fans. But instead, it's just the petty point scoring and rehash of the same old arguments and if fans aren't prepared to unite and fight then nobody else is going to do it for us

 

[stupot07]

I was there to take a view; which you weren't. But you've still got one

Yes, i still have a view.

-Wasps moving to Coventry is wrong
- Wasps moving to Coventry is bad for wasps fans, CRFC and CCFC
- Wasps buying 100% ACL is bad for the medium and long term future of CCFC
- Wasps moving to Coventry places a glass ceiling above CRFC

I don't need to go to a meeting to be 'informed'

Hope it's an unmitigated disaster and they go back to london.

You seem to care more about wasps being here then you do about your football club and local rugby team.


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[Moff]

What's getting to me is there is a real opportunity for some unity about the dire situation we are in and saying sisu-ccc-wasps-fl and anyone else you want to include are all harming ccfc and the only people who care are City fans. But instead, it's just the petty point scoring and rehash of the same old arguments and if fans aren't prepared to unite and fight then nobody else is going to do it for us

Whilst I completely agree with the unity sentiments Michael, I think the fans are so disenfranchised now as they see owners that are abysmal, and dont give a damn about the club, the Council clearly dont give a damn about the club, including the alleged CCFC supporting leader, and the Higgs clearly dont give a damn (although I can understand their position of just wanting shot of their share of the stadium) Add to this previous regimes that ran the club into the floor, mixed with a heady cocktail of shit football, and constant failure, then is it really surprising we are each others throats?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Eyebrows would be raised however if Chelsea suddenly set up in partnership with UWE. I get the point, but then there are always swings in sport. Not *that* many years ago (relatively speaking, anyway!) that Chelsea were on a par with Bristol City (both near bankrupt, for that matter!) and not *that* many years since Rugby could boast a top tier Rugby club. Not *that* many years ago Coventry weren't overly poor, and even less years since they spoke of buying into the top tier themselves...

I suppose lower budgets in Rugby suggest that clubs can grow (Exeter as an example?) with relatively little investment compared to football, but it's as much about cutting off their supply line, surely? Once Wasps are here, CRFC go from having little hope... to having to wait for Wasps to either succeed or fail.

Do take your point about the academy though, although that's as much a sop to trying to keep the current richest clubs up there (wasn't it the Worcester owner who wanted to protect from relegation to protect investments, or is my mind playing tricks and it was another of them?). The way Rugby Union goes, to me, risks losing it of much of its identity in this country, much as Rugby League. If it makes the national team stronger... dunno, tbh. There always seems to be a new way forward to follow, in any sport!

Edit: Yup, it was Duckworth: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8964666.stm

I don't disagree with much of what you say. I have many mixed views on this being a CRFC and Lions man. Do I like franchise sport and the idea of Coventry being a feeder-club? No. But I'm also a realist. Right now, the best local talent goes down to Worcester. Bloody Worcester, for God's sake. Do I prefer the idea of local talent staying here, helping Coventry and then going on to play top flight rugby in our city? Yes. But opinion two contradicts much of opinion one. I'm not saying I like all this. I don't. But I'll equally argue the pragmatic good against those intent on only seeing bad

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Are those arrangements permanent?

Up for review in 2016. My guess is that Wasps will work on the local clubs to curry favour with the RFU and get it changed; so that the supply route will be to Wasps; via Coventry and the joint player development

 

[Ian1779]

When all else fails use the "motive and agenda" line. Go on, enlighten me - what exactly is my motive and agenda?

IMO - both the motive and agenda are very similar to that of the Trust. You are giddy over the idea of fan ownership which you want to be a part of.

Along the way you and the Trust were virtually hanging out of the arse of anyone that could in some way make that happen.

Firstly Haskell who promised the world... and every time someone even mentions fan ownership you are all over it.

Also - you clearly hate SISU, and refuse to hold anyone else to account. You would hang off every word from Les Reid and Nikki Sinclaire until they stopped towing the party line.... now they are pariahs as far as you and the Trust are concerned.

You also allowed yourself (maybe with good intentions) to be involved in the farce with Hoffman and the rent deal. Your desire to either rid the club of SISU or invoke some kind of fan control impaired your judgement.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What's getting to me is there is a real opportunity for some unity about the dire situation we are in and saying sisu-ccc-wasps-fl and anyone else you want to include are all harming ccfc and the only people who care are City fans. But instead, it's just the petty point scoring and rehash of the same old arguments and if fans aren't prepared to unite and fight then nobody else is going to do it for us

Well we are now to choose between seriously attempting to build a new ground or becoming a permanent pay packet for Wasps. Genuine question, which would you prefer?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Up for review in 2016. My guess is that Wasps will work on the local clubs to curry favour with the RFU and get it changed; so that the supply route will be to Wasps; via Coventry and the joint player development

Who has the final say on it? RFU? CRFC?

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Whilst I completely agree with the unity sentiments Michael, I think the fans are so disenfranchised now as they see owners that are abysmal, and dont give a damn about the club, the Council clearly dont give a damn about the club, including the alleged CCFC supporting leader, and the Higgs clearly dont give a damn (although I can understand their position of just wanting shot of their share of the stadium) Add to this previous regimes that ran the club into the floor, mixed with a heady cocktail of shit football, and constant failure, then is it really surprising we are each others throats?

Everyone posting on here has a choice to make - they can points score and rehash arguments while CCFC hits ever more lows or take the view that trying to do something to save ccfc is more important and focus on talking about that

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Well we are now to choose between seriously attempting to build a new ground or becoming a permanent pay packet for Wasps. Genuine question, which would you prefer?

Seriously - that's should be tattooed on Fisher's forehead; and he should answer it every morning

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Who has the final say on it? RFU? CRFC?

RFU. Worcester will put their case, and Wasps theirs. Wasps have some ex-RFU heavyweights on their board - including Eastwood, I recall. With that and the backing of the 46 clubs, which on tonight's showing I would guess they'll get if they work on the local coaching promises they've committed to - I'd guess Wasps will get the nod

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I don't disagree with much of what you say. I have many mixed views on this being a CRFC and Lions man. Do I like franchise sport and the idea of Coventry being a feeder-club? No. But I'm also a realist. Right now, the best local talent goes down to Worcester. Bloody Worcester, for God's sake. Do I prefer the idea of local talent staying here, helping Coventry and then going on to play top flight rugby in our city? Yes. But opinion two contradicts much of opinion one. I'm not saying I like all this. I don't. But I'll equally argue the pragmatic good against those intent on only seeing bad

See, I can get why, now they're here, the local clubs have to work with Wasps really, *have* to, because otherwise they get trampled over. I can see how it could be helpful to Rugby too, given they're on their knees after the odd mentalist, it offers the chance for a leg up and a shot in the arm where currently there's limited chance for that.

I'm sure there must be a better way though. An ideal scenario given where we are could be that the local teams get that bump... then Wasps bog off having spent their cash they don't have, leaving the local clubs to fill the void. Everyone then is a winner long term

The problem is though, once you normalise things (like the Rugby Academy system, as you point out!) it often comes back to haunt you at a later stage.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

IMO - both the motive and agenda are very similar to that of the Trust. You are giddy over the idea of fan ownership which you want to be a part of.

Along the way you and the Trust were virtually hanging out of the arse of anyone that could in some way make that happen.

Firstly Haskell who promised the world... and every time someone even mentions fan ownership you are all over it.

Also - you clearly hate SISU, and refuse to hold anyone else to account. You would hang off every word from Les Reid and Nikki Sinclaire until they stopped towing the party line.... now they are pariahs as far as you and the Trust are concerned.

You also allowed yourself (maybe with good intentions) to be involved in the farce with Hoffman and the rent deal. Your desire to either rid the club of SISU or invoke some kind of fan control impaired your judgement.

Thanks for setting me straight on my motive and agenda! I came on here looking for something to cheer me up about ccfc, was totally depressed by the posts I read but you have at last made me laugh. What you say is solely the product of your own imagination and bears no relation to reality but you have at least me me smile. Cheers!

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Better then hanging on Tim Fishers every word don't you think?

IMO - both the motive and agenda are very similar to that of the Trust. You are giddy over the idea of fan ownership which you want to be a part of.

Along the way you and the Trust were virtually hanging out of the arse of anyone that could in some way make that happen.

Firstly Haskell who promised the world... and every time someone even mentions fan ownership you are all over it.

Also - you clearly hate SISU, and refuse to hold anyone else to account. You would hang off every word from Les Reid and Nikki Sinclaire until they stopped towing the party line.... now they are pariahs as far as you and the Trust are concerned.

You also allowed yourself (maybe with good intentions) to be involved in the farce with Hoffman and the rent deal. Your desire to either rid the club of SISU or invoke some kind of fan control impaired your judgement.