City Won Cov Won Wasps smashed (8 Viewers)

[shy_tall_knight]

I don't care for WASPS but surprised how their poor result is received on here, as another poster stated "its their manor" if SISU had bought ACL and had invited WAPS to play here it would be seen as a master stroke of utilising the stadium to its max. The blame game is pointless from our old directors to CCC & Higgs and then finally SISU are all responsible for our current predicament but not WASPS

 

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[stupot07]

Corrected for the smart arse who would rather judge Wasps than the owners of our own club which going down the swanny.

How about we judge every party's involvement in this debacle? Sisu's failing are well documented, we all know how much of blame they must and do take, doesn't mean we can't criticise the others, and doesn't mean we should just accept london wasps with open arms because regardless of who's fault it is, it will only ultimately only have a negative impact on both the club, CRFC and other local football and rugby clubs.

I will continue to take pleasure every time wasps lose, just as I do when villa and leicester lose.


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[Deleted member 5849]

if SISU had bought ACL and had invited WAPS to play here it would be seen as a master stroke of utilising the stadium to its max.

No, it'd be SISU prioritising financial reasons ahead of sporting reasons, and would have been an excellent example as to why SISU are not fit to own a sporting team.

As for the question as to why be pleased they lose? Because of precedent. The sooner Wasps fail, the harder it will be for any other sporting team to move elsewhere on a whim... and the harder sport clubs' directors think before doing such a thing, that's why.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

No, it'd be SISU prioritising financial reasons ahead of sporting reasons, and would have been an excellent example as to why SISU are not fit to own a sporting team.

As for the question as to why be pleased they lose? Because of precedent. The sooner Wasps fail, the harder it will be for any other sporting team to move elsewhere on a whim... and the harder sport clubs' directors think before doing such a thing, that's why.

OK best of luck on your crusade against franchise teams and I hope that WASPS defeats provide comfort over the continuing decline of Coventry city but what timescale do you expect their potential failure to materialise ? Remember this has been a nomadic club for some 10 years and are still going. Hopefully you are not in charge of the SISU corporate strategy as I fear that they may hang around for years hoping for this to happen and we know how good they are on strategic planning.

 

[skybluetony176]

How about we judge every party's involvement in this debacle? Sisu's failing are well documented, we all know how much of blame they must and do take, doesn't mean we can't criticise the others, and doesn't mean we should just accept london wasps with open arms because regardless of who's fault it is, it will only ultimately only have a negative impact on both the club, CRFC and other local football and rugby clubs.

I will continue to take pleasure every time wasps lose, just as I do when villa and leicester lose.



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They will have to go some to beat the negative effect that SISU have had on local sport. But don't concern yourself with that. There's a new diversion in town. Yipee, lets not talk about SISU's failings, lets give them a free ride instead. They've earnt it after all.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The only person diverting here, appears to be you...

 

[skybluetony176]

The only person diverting here, appears to be you...

Diverting a topic on a CCFC general chat section on a CCFC forum to the topic of CCFC. Who would have thought? I must appologise. Lets all talk about them nasty Wasps and how we can blame them for SISU's failings instead. Carry on. I'll pop over to the off topic section and see if I can find a thread on CCFC.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You have a remarkable tendency to set things in binary opposition to one another.

 

[italiahorse]

People should concentrate the efforts, anger, despise of Wasps directly at Sisu to make sure they do not prolong this nightmare by continuing to talk about a new stadium.

I just want to turn up to watch my football team at 'our' stadium the Ricoh.

Previous to the move to Northampton I never even gave it a second thought on stadium ownership.
I just turned up and enjoyed the day. Took the compliments from the opposing fans on how great a stadium we had.
The casino before and after was also part of the experience and also part of the CCFC experience.

I won't normally be there when Wasps are there but when I drive past I can still take pride in the fact that Coventry City play there.
I have done the rough figures and although not an ideal scenario, I know that a new stadium is not as good as a sympathetic rent deal.
We need to get this deal on the table, we need to stick it out at the Ricoh and if Wasps are going to fail they will fail whether we are there or not.
I know for sure I don't want years of SISU stressing them like they did ACL in the hope that we get the stadium for a pittance in 10 years time.
Lets move on please Sisu.

 

[Tonylinc]

Can someone please explain how by building a new stadium(remember that it will only be a modular one; probably without conference, exhibition etc. facilities) will be better than having a decent rent agreement at the Ricoh.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Its all in the pies - I fear there are many fans on her mostly sixfielders who still think there is a smoking gun in the remnants of the SISU legal action that will lead to the keys to the Ricoh being handed over for free. Talk of any new stadium is really pathetic as it is so unrealistic especially under SISU. The main risk to the existence of out club is whether we still remain wanted by WASPS, id they feel that they can survive without us then rental negotiations will become more difficult and the shifting the games to Northampton tactic or threat of will have little credibility.

 

[Tonylinc]

Ah, the pies.....I had forgotten them.....loads of money to be made there.

 

[stupot07]

Can someone please explain how by building a new stadium(remember that it will only be a modular one; probably without conference, exhibition etc. facilities) will be better than having a decent rent agreement at the Ricoh.

I'm not trying to make a case for it, but pretty much every football club has facilities they rent out for conferences, workshops, meetings, weddings, parties, etc. CRFC do it at the butts.

- renting out rooms for conferences, meetings, events
- parking
- food and beverages (you control the suppliers to get the best deal/profit margin)
- hospitality (you control the suppliers to get best deal)
- selling stadium naming rights
- stand sponsorship (tesco's stand, etc)
- parking (for matchdays and other events)
- rent out out to PL U21 teams, etc
- sell off land
- asset vs liability of the mortgage
- Pitchside advertising (we all ready get this)
- opportunities for selling advertising space outside the stadium.

Obviously a lot will depend on location, etc.

The truth is we don't know which would be most financially better as we have not seen a business case, and we don't know what kind of rent/revenue deal wasps are willing to do. From balance sheet point of view a 250 year rent deal will be views as a liability, whilst giving no asset.

What we do know is that any Ricoh rent deal without access to all football related/additional revenue means we're pretty much restricted to league one-championship yo-yo club at best.




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[italiahorse]

I'm not trying to make a case for it, but pretty much every football club has facilities they rent out for conferences, workshops, meetings, weddings, parties, etc. CRFC do it at the butts.

- renting out rooms for conferences, meetings, events
- parking
- food and beverages (you control the suppliers to get the best deal/profit margin)
- hospitality (you control the suppliers to get best deal)
- selling stadium naming rights
- stand sponsorship (tesco's stand, etc)
- parking (for matchdays and other events)
- rent out out to PL U21 teams, etc
- sell off land
- asset vs liability of the mortgage
- Pitchside advertising (we all ready get this)
- opportunities for selling advertising space outside the stadium.

Obviously a lot will depend on location, etc.

The truth is we don't know which would be most financially better as we have not seen a business case, and we don't know what kind of rent/revenue deal wasps are willing to do. From balance sheet point of view a 250 year rent deal will be views as a liability, whilst giving no asset.

What we do know is that any Ricoh rent deal without access to all football related/additional revenue means we're pretty much restricted to league one-championship yo-yo club at best.




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Can you give me a link to the business case for an out of town stadium? Or do I believe blindly ?
It will be like the Sky Blue Connection at Ryton. What a waste of space that is.

 

[Nick]

Can you give me a link to the business case for an out of town stadium? Or do I believe blindly ?
It will be like the Sky Blue Connection at Ryton. What a waste of space that is.

Did you miss the bit where he said about not seeing a business case?

 

[Tonylinc]

Please remember that any new stadium will be competing with the NEC and the Ricoh for any corporate business. The amount of money which Sisu are likely to put into any stadium means that it will much too inferior to either of those two stadiums to compete.

 

[Steve.B50]

Can someone please explain how by building a new stadium(remember that it will only be a modular one; probably without conference, exhibition etc. facilities) will be better than having a decent rent agreement at the Ricoh.

No one can Tony, even Man City rent.

 

[Moff]

OK best of luck on your crusade against franchise teams and I hope that WASPS defeats provide comfort over the continuing decline of Coventry city but what timescale do you expect their potential failure to materialise ? Remember this has been a nomadic club for some 10 years and are still going..

Just for info they have nearly folded on I believe three separate occasions over the past ten years, so if this doesn't work for them then it will probably be curtains. Perhaps then they will bugger off back to London to the fan base they stuck two fingers up at to come to Coventry

 

[Moff]

Diverting a topic on a CCFC general chat section on a CCFC forum to the topic of CCFC. Who would have thought? I must appologise. Lets all talk about them nasty Wasps and how we can blame them for SISU's failings instead. Carry on. I'll pop over to the off topic section and see if I can find a thread on CCFC.

I know this reply was aimed at someone else Tony, but why cant people hate SISU for everything they have done to our club, but also hate Wasps for different reasons?

That's the case with most people on here, and I am one of them, and yet they seem to be being attacked for not just aiming all their hatred at SISU all the time.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

How?

Well for a start there are the intangibles, the Brand Value... the bit that ultimately is hard to value on a balance sheet, but goes a long way to creating value in the club.

Something that a ground has a lot to do with. This Is Anfield for one. The move to new grounds takes that away to a degree as clubs are associated less with their place, but nonetheless it helps. And your own ground enables you to build it into the brand.

Then there's the fact a ground can sit as an asset on the books. Again, makes the club a little more saleable, also allows something to borrow against (inadvisable, but still). Not only that, but it shows focus on building the infrastructure of a club rather than just focussing on players, players, players. No coincidence that our decline coincides with us focussing on the latter rather than the former.

Then there's the fact that Wasps won't give all profit to CCFC. Wasps will (naturally) want to make some money out of any rental deal with the football club - else what's the point of them doing it? (the only reason they might not, in fact, is if they took seriously the possible threat of a new ground and the competition it might bring).

CCFC wouldn't have access to the conference facilities at the Ricoh under a rental deal. Competition from another ground? Why not? I've been to conferences at some of the biggest shitholes known to man (for balance, some half decent venues too ). At the risk of the obvious, it's about working out your best market for your costs. it could, indeed, be the case that actually when it comes down to it, a CCFC ground targets different areas to the Wasps ground and they can both co-exist.

Ultimately, however, it should be the sporting identity and sporting foundations that should win out, and that is served best by a CCFC ground for CCFC. We really should, IMO, be campaigning for both SISU and CCC to start talking to one another to find common ground on where such a site can be found in the city, and push them to remember the sporting and social benefits by doing so.

of course, we won't...

In fact, surely the more high calibre sporting and social facilities in our city, the better?

Surely if this works out with CCFC building a ground in the city, this is a good thing?

 

[Sick Boy]

No one can Tony, even Man City rent.

Do they only have access to ticket sales too?

As for comment about not understanding why people want Wasps to lose, did you say the same to those who wanted Northampton to lose?

 

[fernandopartridge]

1-0 away to colchester. What a time to be alive.

We are a league 1 club. Accept that.

 

[Steve.B50]

Like it or not the same person who owns Wasps now owns our stadium, we either work with them or fight there very existence. Our owners now have people they can negotiate with and as yet not taken to court.
The Wasps in my mind have done nothing wrong, they found a stadium that was up for grabs, made an offer and took the gamble, our owners could have made the same call and tried there luck.

This Rugby club can bring a great deal of value not just to the Ricoh but to the whole City, we should grab the opportunity or at the very least listen to what they have to offer and can do for the City and our club. Coventry Rugby club can gain from this and am sure they are already talking to them, hence the resentment has gone quiet.

Just like we have all put the Sixfields situation behind us and moved on we should accept these people now own the home of Coventry City, work with them not against as we can all gain from any form of success.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Like it or not the same person who owns Wasps now owns our stadium, we either work with them or fight there very existence.

I like the sound of the latter, tbh.

 

[Steve.B50]

Just for info they have nearly folded on I believe three separate occasions over the past ten years, so if this doesn't work for them then it will probably be curtains. Perhaps then they will bugger off back to London to the fan base they stuck two fingers up at to come to Coventry

They could well go bust, it must be a big gamble. But two points.
1 what would they do with the RIcoh?
2 If we have a long term rental agreement who would have first hit on buying it?

 

[Steve.B50]

I like the sound of the latter, tbh.

Why should it be that way, we as fans wanted our owners to talk to ACL ( as it was)?
its only my own view but personally I cannot see what the Wasps have done wrong.

 

[italiahorse]

How?

Well for a start there are the intangibles, the Brand Value... the bit that ultimately is hard to value on a balance sheet, but goes a long way to creating value in the club.

Something that a ground has a lot to do with. This Is Anfield for one. The move to new grounds takes that away to a degree as clubs are associated less with their place, but nonetheless it helps. And your own ground enables you to build it into the brand.

Then there's the fact a ground can sit as an asset on the books. Again, makes the club a little more saleable, also allows something to borrow against (inadvisable, but still). Not only that, but it shows focus on building the infrastructure of a club rather than just focussing on players, players, players. No coincidence that our decline coincides with us focussing on the latter rather than the former.

Then there's the fact that Wasps won't give all profit to CCFC. Wasps will (naturally) want to make some money out of any rental deal with the football club - else what's the point of them doing it? (the only reason they might not, in fact, is if they took seriously the possible threat of a new ground and the competition it might bring).

CCFC wouldn't have access to the conference facilities at the Ricoh under a rental deal. Competition from another ground? Why not? I've been to conferences at some of the biggest shitholes known to man (for balance, some half decent venues too ). At the risk of the obvious, it's about working out your best market for your costs. it could, indeed, be the case that actually when it comes down to it, a CCFC ground targets different areas to the Wasps ground and they can both co-exist.

Ultimately, however, it should be the sporting identity and sporting foundations that should win out, and that is served best by a CCFC ground for CCFC. We really should, IMO, be campaigning for both SISU and CCC to start talking to one another to find common ground on where such a site can be found in the city, and push them to remember the sporting and social benefits by doing so.

of course, we won't...

In fact, surely the more high calibre sporting and social facilities in our city, the better?

Surely if this works out with CCFC building a ground in the city, this is a good thing?

Location is critical.
I guess it will be just another Sky Blue Connection so will be a non starter.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Why should it be that way, we as fans wanted our owners to talk to ACL ( as it was)?
its only my own view but personally I cannot see what the Wasps have done wrong.

Moving a club from its territory for financial reasons only seems sufficient to me, tbh.

We will, of course, all differ with where our cutoff points are but... would you be saying the same if we had moved to Wycombe?

 

[Moff]

They could well go bust, it must be a big gamble. But two points.
1 what would they do with the RIcoh?
2 If we have a long term rental agreement who would have first hit on buying it?

I presume the lease of the Ricoh would go back to the freeholder, the Council. Hopefully if this happened the current moron incumbents at the council house will have been significantly changed with people like Lucas being given the boot.

I presume the lease would then be subject of discussion for sale or for the Council to keep hold of, but judging by their previous they would claim it was a great money making business whilst pedaling it to all and sundry. (Forgive my cynicism)

 

[Nick]

Like it or not the same person who owns Wasps now owns our stadium, we either work with them or fight there very existence. Our owners now have people they can negotiate with and as yet not taken to court.
The Wasps in my mind have done nothing wrong, they found a stadium that was up for grabs, made an offer and took the gamble, our owners could have made the same call and tried there luck.

This Rugby club can bring a great deal of value not just to the Ricoh but to the whole City, we should grab the opportunity or at the very least listen to what they have to offer and can do for the City and our club. Coventry Rugby club can gain from this and am sure they are already talking to them, hence the resentment has gone quiet.

Just like we have all put the Sixfields situation behind us and moved on we should accept these people now own the home of Coventry City, work with them not against as we can all gain from any form of success.

Steve they moved a club didn't they? I take it you will be going to wasps games?

 

[Steve.B50]

Moving a club from its territory for financial reasons only seems sufficient to me, tbh.

We will, of course, all differ with where our cutoff points are but... would you be saying the same if we had moved to Wycombe?

no not at all, but firstly they have been nomads as such for the last 12 years, they are not moving just for financial reasons it's more a case of survival, they move or die.
at Twickenham yesterday we spoke to two different lots of Wasps fans, in both cases they agreed with move. One said he would still go to games, the other group said they would not go but will always be a Wasps fan and would get to local games when possible.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

no not at all, but firstly they have been nomads as such for the last 12 years, they are not moving just for financial reasons it's more a case of survival, they move or die.

I'm sure they could cut their playing budget to live within their means...

 

[Steve.B50]

Steve they moved a club didn't they? I take it you will be going to wasps games?

Nick, I may go to the odd game if it fitted into my weekend, but I also go and will carry on going to Coventry a Rugby games.
Yesterday I went to Twickenham and next week I am going again.

However, anyone who knows me will confirm my first love is CCFC. Yesterday was the only the second game I have missed all season.

 

[Nick]

Nick, I may go to the odd game if it fitted into my weekend, but I also go and will carry on going to Coventry a Rugby games.
Yesterday I went to Twickenham and next week I am going again.

However, anyone who knows me will confirm my first love is CCFC. Yesterday was the only the second game I have missed all season.

To be fair I wasn't judging dedication to ccfc, I'd be wrong if I did

 

[stupot07]

Please remember that any new stadium will be competing with the NEC and the Ricoh for any corporate business. The amount of money which Sisu are likely to put into any stadium means that it will much too inferior to either of those two stadiums to compete.

Not necessarily, go and have a look at a few of the football league clubs websites under "commercial". There's more than enough business to go around, and if the new stadium hasn't got the big exhibition hall (like all football league clubs bar the Ricoh) it won't be competing with the Ricoh or NEC.


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