For a start, perhaps you should ask several thousand of their regular supporters who have been asked to travel 80 miles further on average through the winter to attend a home game. They to me are invaders in Cov rugby's home City, looking for glory seekers akin to Man Utd and Chelsea followers to jump on their franchise bandwagon. I spoke with some Tigers fans yesterday, they agreed it was disgusting what they have done and hope they 'Play in an empty cavern' !
City Won Cov Won Wasps smashed (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ashdown
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bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Again, were you disgusted when they moved to Wycombe?
Funnily enough it passed me by as something that happened out of my sphere of interests, but of course it wasn't right was it. It effects me now because there is even less hope for the Sky Blues in getting rid of SISU and I'm concerned about the impact on Cov Rugby. The Ricoh was built for CCFC, our local team, with a fair bit of money coming from the club to help clear the site. These franchise cuckoos have hopped in the nest with the traitorous help of our own council. I'm with you on SISU, for me they are 99% responsible for the recent demise of CCFC but our local authority still had a moral obligation towards it's own historical clubs and it's citizens.
Moral obligation v financial obligation. Moral lost. The council will not be judged on morals in this case, but on getting out of a liability for taxpayers.
MichaelCCFC
New Member
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I am not having a go at you personally, its just something that has always stuck in my mind from the MK Dons game last year.
Many posters on here tried to portray those who went to MK but not to Sixfields as hypocrites. The fact that as Coventry fans we are more likely to care about a situation involving our club rather than another was mocked by them. This now is exactly the same situation. Using their logic we should all have been equally annoyed by Wasps moving to Wycombe or Coventry.
As far as them not doing anything wrong, I just think your looking at it the wrong way. It was wrong for them to move out of their traditional home, I agree with you on that. They are a London club, and moving from London to Wycombe was wrong. That is where they are to be criticised in my opinion. Moving from Wycombe to Coventry isn't affecting that status. They were a London club playing outside of London, they are still a London club playing outside of London.
As for the damage to the cities existing sports teams, that isn't the responsibility of Wasps. The situation has occurred because of Sisu and CCC. A poor analogy I know, but its a bit like blaming immigrants for the high numbers descending on the country. You cant blame people for wanting to come to a richer country, however you can blame those that have allowed it to happen. I.e. The Government.
Nick
Administrator
How have SISU done anything to damage any other sports teams other than CCFC?
So in your views when we moved to Northampton as we had moved anyway, if we were to then move an extra 40 miles it would be fine as we weren't in Coventry anyway so it is fine?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Sisu's actions have resulted in another Rugby team moving to the city. Are you saying that wont affect Cov Rugby in years to come?
I wouldn't have cared less if they moved from Northampton to somewhere else (other than Coventry obviously).
Nick
Administrator
No, Wasps and CCC were obviously to blame for them moving here. Unless SISU had guns to their heads to make them do it? It wasn't Wasps fault they moved??
Christ, scraping the barrel now aren't you?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Wasps and CCC also helped to make that happen-nobody forced either. At least Ann Lucas can be rewarded for the council's actions by being booted out at the earliest convenience. Wasps though, a bit trickier.
Quite ! West London to Wycombe was bad enough but Wycombe to Coventry is another ball game in terms of travel and cost. Besides the uprooting, I for one am still suspicious that this won't be just another business venture for another hedge fund and could see the 'Roaming rugby club' move on again of there is significant Wonga to be made out of it ?!
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Seriously? Your blaming Wasps for buying ACL? I'm pretty sure you have posted before that Wasps got the stadium "on the cheap", so your now saying they were wrong to go for a bargain?
Are you really saying that Sisu had no influence on Wasps coming here? Are you really saying that them leaving the Ricoh empty, and then saying they were only coming back for a few years didn't influence Higgs or CCC in their decision to sell?
Who do you blame for forcing down the value of ACL to a level that Wasps could buy it?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I have sympathy with Wasps fans for the extra travel costs, but that isn't really the principle that is wrong. Moving out of your home town is wrong, where you move to doesn't make that any less or worse wrong.
As in Nicks question above, it wouldn't have made any difference to me if city had moved to the Scottish Highlands from Northampton. Its wrong to play outside of the city regardless of where it is.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
1. Sisu's fault for fucking about
2. Wasps' fault for moving their club over 80 miles. You know, the stuff you moan at SISU for doing
3. After the clubs' return, we were told by the Council that we needed to "build bridges" before discussing ownership. This was at the same time as talking to Wasps. Lucas said that moving a team from a City ripped the heart out of its community. She then sold the stadium (more or less) to Wasps who will contol it until 2265. So, the Council's fault too. This was a council leader who "loves" CCFC remember.
4. Higgs' were just as bad.
Your one-eyed, myopic view of the world makes you a prince amongst Noggin, MMM et al.
2. Wasps' fault for moving their club over 80 miles. You know, the stuff you moan at SISU for doing
3. After the clubs' return, we were told by the Council that we needed to "build bridges" before discussing ownership. This was at the same time as talking to Wasps. Lucas said that moving a team from a City ripped the heart out of its community. She then sold the stadium (more or less) to Wasps who will contol it until 2265. So, the Council's fault too. This was a council leader who "loves" CCFC remember.
4. Higgs' were just as bad.
Your one-eyed, myopic view of the world makes you a prince amongst Noggin, MMM et al.
Nick
Administrator
Is that a serious question? did somebody have a gun to their head? Were they forced to do it?
What a joke.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
In blaming Wasps though your just shifting responsibility. Wasps board are responsible to Wasps. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of it all, they have given their club a permanent home. In moving to Coventry they may well have made the right decision for their club, time will tell on that.
The board of CCFC is responsible to CCFC. I don't think anyone can argue that they have acted in their clubs best interest in this saga. Their actions have destroyed the clubs chance of owning the Ricoh.
CCC's responsibility is to the city, its businesses, its tradition and heritage. They have not acted in the best interest in 3 of those 4 responsibilities imo.
Nick
Administrator
Pretty much.
Some of the shit on here is laughable. Of course SISU fucked up in not buying it, it doesn't take the blame away from Wasps / CCC / Higgs though does it?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Inverness Caley Cov City Thistle?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Do you realise your agreeing with me on 3 of those 4 points. The only thing I disagree with you on is it was wrong for Wasps to move from London to Wycombe. You seem to be ok with that, I for one think its wrong.
See you make some valid points, and then you end with a personal insult.
Not much of a gent are you?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
No, YOU are shifting responsibility. It's about taking it. And ALL the sides involved share the responsibility and blame for where our Club finds itself.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Grendal was posting on here the other day that the Wasps chairman had said they would go bust if they had to continue to rent.
Are you saying that is wrong?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If you view clubs purely as businesses then yes the Wasps board have done the right thing for the business. But we all know that sports clubs aren't typical businesses-and shitting on your fans from a great height is not something they should be applauded for. They have shown as much disdain for their own fans as SISU did in their relocation to Northampton, who did so to bust ACL and acquire it on the cheap.
If SISU hadn't have moved the club ACL wouldn't have been sold to anyone.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
Who's fault is that then? Must be CCFC's I bet
What would you say if Tim Fisher comes out and says we had to move to Dublin because we would go bust if we continued to rent?
You didn't answer about who had the gun to their head? Did Seppalla go down there with the hit squad and bundle them all into the back of a van to make sure they moved to the Ricoh?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I am not saying that Wasps haven't wronged their fans (but imo that wrong was back when they left London), but I am arguing against those who say that Wasps have wronged CCFC and CRFC.
The fate of those two clubs is not the responsibility of Wasps.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I think the RFU may have something to say about the latter. The council's disdain for its own city's sports clubs could not be more apparent at any rate-permanently sealing Cov Rugby as the junior club in the city is their making. Although only a matter of time before Wasps start poaching the city's talent for themselves.
Nick
Administrator
But you just blamed SISU for wronging CRFC for Wasps moving here?
Of course, nobody is saying Wasps are to blame for us selling Julian Gray or overspending at HR can they? Nobody can even blame them for buying the Ricoh at a cut price.
However, they can be blamed for moving a team. Them and CCC can be blamed if it does damage CRFC.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Who's fault is that then? Must be CCFC's I bet
What would you say if Tim Fisher comes out and says we had to move to Dublin because we would go bust if we continued to rent?
You didn't answer about who had the gun to their head? Did Seppalla go down there with the hit squad and bundle them all into the back of a van to make sure they moved to the Ricoh?
See you also seem to think it was ok for Wasps to move from London to Wycombe. Once they have moved out of their traditional home, what difference does it make where they play?
I am really struggling to understand your point here.
The situation has been caused by this:
Years ago Wasps left their home in London for Wycombe. - WASPS FAULT
Sisu state that ACL will not have an anchor tenant in future and drive down the value of ACL to a level Wasps can afford - SISU'S FAULT
Wasps see an opportunity to have a permanent home and be financially secure - IMO THEY CANNOT BE BLAMED FOR THAT
CCC sell to Wasps - CCC's FAULT
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I blamed sisu for creating a situation where Wasps moved here.
Again CCC can be blamed if it damages CRFC, Wasps have no responsibility there though.
Nick
Administrator
So why would SISU have blame for damaging CRFC but not Wasps?
Nick
Administrator
Jesus fucking christ.
Where did I say it is obviously fine for them to move to Wycombe?
So SISU can't be blamed if they find CCFC a long term home and move us away from Coventry then? Or will that be wrong?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I didn't blame Sisu for damaging CRFC, I blamed them for having a part in Wasps buying the Ricoh.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
You just don't get it do you?
Wasps haven't moved from their home city to Coventry. They have moved from an adopted home to Coventry.
If you want to compare it to our situation, it would be like sisu moving the club from Northampton to Manchester. The damage would have already been done by the initial move.