I think I'm going to be sick ! (8 Viewers)

[bigfatronssba]

So then, back to the point (and for the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting wrongdoing by *anybody*).

Say what you will, the Ricoh has *always* been tied up with urban regeneration for CCC, they've been entirely consistent in that. Indeed, to persuade the likes of Nellist to vote for the project, they had to make that even more explicit. The club, meanwhile, peddled the rhetoric that either the council backed this project, or the club died...

It's worth asking the question though, surely, why in effect a charity connected to a CCFC director in effect gave the club what was supposed to be a short term loan to provide some working capital. Even more surprising when not only loss-making football club struggles to meet their objectives as a charity if we decide they're all for the little children, and not propping up failing commercial enterprises... and the involvement with club/ACL has to be shoehorned a little to fit said objectives. It can be, but you'd raise an eyebrow, wouldn't you.

The option was always there of *not* providing said working capital, after all (would they have got involved with a different board?), and letting the directors at the time either find the cash needed themselves... or admit defeat, write off what owed, and see club (and half the stadium management company, at least) be on offer as one package.

As I said, not suggesting wrongdoing, but there are always, *always* many ways to see the same narrative. When it comes to Higgs however, it's always pure white knights, with noi challenge whatsoever.

it could be argued that in all this, only the council have been consistent, in fact, in seeing the football club as a sideline, and viewing the bigger project of urban regeneration as *their* main motivation.

In fairness to the Higgs, despite the rhetoric on here (of which even I have been guilty of), they are not solely a children's charity. They seem to see themselves as a charity that helps to regenerate parts of the city, and regardless of how things have worked out, I think their aim was always to do what is right for the city.

I would be more critical of CCC for decisions taken back in 2003 as from what I can see they were based on short term popularity. The myth is that a football ground had to be built to regenerate that area is something the council liked to promote at the time. I was told by a councillor at the time though that the regeneration would have gone ahead anyway.

Had the stadium not gone ahead, there were other proposals. One would have been the much rumoured snow dome, another was an extension of the shopping park to cover all the site, even a prison was on the proposals list. There were others as well that I cant remember now.

 

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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

17,000 egg chasers does not a --------- make (fill in your own caption). It's only the curiosity factor - give it a match or two and it'll be lower than our crowds - unless we do our (all too frequent) post Christmas kamikaze slump !! :guitar2:

Can't see that. After the Sale game, which is just into the New Year and therefore some people are still in jubilant mood; they have Cardiff, Harlequins, Gloucester and Saracens in a row. Exeter (although doing well) won't be a draw, but if they link tickets to that game to the Leicester game - which is the last home fixture - then they'll do well at the gate

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I haven't said I am ok with the Wasps thing. For what its worth I also believe that local rugby fans should have gone to see CRFC over the years if they liked rugby that much. Also I include those who post on here who have never been to a rugby match in their lives but have suddenly become massive Cov fans based purely on spite for Wasps.

That doesn't detract from the point though, anyone who defended the right to go to a football match in Northampton must now defend the same right to watch rugby at the Ricoh. THEIR reasons for doing it are irrelevant.

Although I have no idea why anyone would want to go watch a club that they don't support (other than maybe a one off occasion) but maybe I'm weird like that.

 

[Nick]

Was this when our esteemed chairman threatened to have his dog maul someone?

Didn't he make a joke???

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I would be more critical of CCC for decisions taken back in 2003 as from what I can see they were based on short term popularity. The myth is that a football ground had to be built to regenerate that area is something the council liked to promote at the time. I was told by a councillor at the time though that the regeneration would have gone ahead anyway.

Had the stadium not gone ahead, there were other proposals. One would have been the much rumoured snow dome, another was an extension of the shopping park to cover all the site, even a prison was on the proposals list. There were others as well that I cant remember now.

Yeah, lots of myths really. Why we ended up in the arse end of Folsehill/Holbrooks/Longford too, is a little... surprising. At a site that cost a fortune to decontaminate, and so added extra costs on top of an already expensive project.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Didn't he make a joke???

Didn't you see the compelling witness report produced, apparently Fisher threatened to set an extremely dangerous, aggressive dog on them. I'm surprised Fisher didn't get jail time tbh

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

And you were critical of those that went to Sixfields, yet you're ok with the wasps thing. I also think there's a suttlw difference between following THEIR club and supporting THEIR team, and jumping on a franchise bandwagon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Only in Coventry can you have fans criticising there own for supporting there club, yet defend supporting and attending a club whose arrival has thrown our long term future into doubt.

I didn't agree with those who went to sixfields and I was against it but I could at least see and understand why some Coventry fans wanted to attend, I have no idea why anyone would want to go to a Wasps match though and I don't understand any of the arguments presented in favour of attending Wasps.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Yeah, lots of myths really. Why we ended up in the arse end of Folsehill/Holbrooks/Longford too, is a little... surprising. At a site that cost a fortune to decontaminate, and so added extra costs on top of an already expensive project.

Again though my belief is CCC did this for popularity, believing it to be what the people wanted. Given the pressure the club, the local media, and many fans was putting on the council for the deal to be done I am not surprised they voted for it.

Despite what some try and say on here, I don't believe the council wanted to "bleed the club dry", nor did they do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Didn't you see the compelling witness report produced, apparently Fisher threatened to set an extremely dangerous, aggressive dog on them. I'm surprised Fisher didn't get jail time tbh

In response to the sadistic crime of placing a string under a windscreen wiper.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Again though my belief is CCC did this for popularity, believing it to be what the people wanted. Given the pressure the club, the local media, and many fans was putting on the council for the deal to be done I am not surprised they voted for it.

Despite what some try and say on here, I don't believe the council wanted to "bleed the club dry", nor did they do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

I was meaning more, before the ground even involved CCC beyond the planning stage.

The location is... unusual. But we were sold a dream of 40k plus capacity and retractable ground/roof, that made us not look at *that* too much.

Undeniable that when it came to the actual building of the ground, the council succumbed to public pressure. Hence why it even got that far - was a close vote in the end to build it, and needed a fair amount of horse trading with those reluctant. That horse trading is why CCFC have always been the sideshow. Sad, in a way, that public pressure has not existed full-stop on the council to include CCFC in any Ricoh dealings since.

We have, almost, got what we've wished for...

 

[bigfatronssba]

Only in Coventry can you have fans criticising there own for supporting there club, yet defend supporting and attending a club whose arrival has thrown our long term future into doubt.

Only football fans mentality could go and support their club playing in another city yet criticise those that go and watch a rugby club in their own city.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Only in Coventry can you have fans criticising there own for supporting there club, yet defend supporting and attending a club whose arrival has thrown our long term future into doubt.

Surely the long-term future of the club has been more influenced by Fisher than by Wasps? He says they're building anew. So the Wasps arrival is irrelevance, surely? Unless you tell me you don't think the new stadium is going to happen - in which case it's Fisher's fault as he's overplayed his hand?!?

 

[Covcraig@bury]

Originally Posted by italiahorse
Get your facts right before you open your filthy mouth
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/spo...-title-8202599
Few people made themselves look foolish on here!
Wonder if any will be man enough to apologise?
FFS .

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

In response to the sadistic crime of placing a string under a windscreen wiper.

Exactly, I don't even know why this was brought back up. It was ridiculous at the time and still is now.

 

[Grendel]

In response to the sadistic crime of placing a string under a windscreen wiper.

He made a joke and they laughed.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Surely the long-term future of the club has been more influenced by Fisher than by Wasps? He says they're building anew. So the Wasps arrival is irrelevance, surely? Unless you tell me you don't think the new stadium is going to happen - in which case it's Fisher's fault as he's overplayed his hand?!?

Absolutely, the long term future has been put in jeopardy by SISU, Fisher and cronies. What I don't understand is why people want to support the club who have seen this uncertainty as an opportunity to muscle there way in, push us out and replace us as the citys top sport club.

Any decent set of fans would take a back to the walls approach and have a siege mentality and get behind the club, instead some are just happy for Wasps to walk in and replace us without batting an eyelid.

 

[Grendel]

Absolutely, the long term future has been put in jeopardy by SISU, Fisher and cronies. What I don't understand is why people want to support the club who have seen this uncertainty as an opportunity to muscle there way in, push us out and replace us as the citys top sport club.

Any decent set of fans would take a back to the walls approach and have a siege mentality and get behind the club, instead some are just happy for Wasps to walk in and replace us without batting an eyelid.

Indeed. Imagine if old Trafford was sold by the glaziers to a rugby league team. I'm sure there would be a mass round of applause and piss taking out of the Glaziers.......not.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Absolutely, the long term future has been put in jeopardy by SISU, Fisher and cronies. What I don't understand is why people want to support the club who have seen this uncertainty as an opportunity to muscle there way in, push us out and replace us as the citys top sport club.

Any decent set of fans would take a back to the walls approach and have a siege mentality and get behind the club, instead some are just happy for Wasps to walk in and replace us without batting an eyelid.

But SISU keep on telling us they're building new. The council can't force them to buy what they tell us they don't want. So they've sold it to someone else. I think many people - again and people have differing view on franchise sport - see a significant sporting brand like Wasps being in town as being good. Personally, I don't. I don't have a ticket for the Irish game and I shall not be there. But Coventry is a city with a population in excess of 310,000, and 8K currently watch the city's football, sadly. And if enough of the balance are sick to the back teeth of successive football owners of this club behaving like fools, and want to watch some top-flight egg-chasing, I can see why they would go

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But SISU keep on telling us they're building new.

So where's the campaign by us to make sure there's a site found in Coventry?

Why aren't we moving on, if this is indeed what will happen, and pointing out the benefits to Coventry of having TWO top class leisure facilities in its boundaries, at a time when it wants to close its swimming pool?

Why aren't we pressuring both sides and pointing out... it's good to talk?

 

[Grendel]

But SISU keep on telling us they're building new. The council can't force them to buy what they tell us they don't want. So they've sold it to someone else. I think many people - again and people have differing view on franchise sport - see a significant sporting brand like Wasps being in town as being good. Personally, I don't. I don't have a ticket for the Irish game and I shall not be there. But Coventry is a city with a population in excess of 310,000, and 8K currently watch the city's football, sadly. And if enough of the balance are sick to the back teeth of successive football owners of this club behaving like fools, and want to watch some top-flight egg-chasing, I can see why they would go

Do you think Lucas sat fisher and seppella down and explained the offer made to Wasps and have them the opportunity to take the deal?

 

[Covkid1968#]

Most people I spoke to at the Cov Rugby were going - Rugby fans just seem to love a game of Rugby and they just cant resist seeing a Premier league side so close to home. The local clubs all seem to be supporting it to!!!! CCFC made its own bed some time ago - but what chance has CRFC got???

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So where's the campaign by us to make sure there's a site found in Coventry?

Why aren't we moving on, if this is indeed what will happen, and pointing out the benefits to Coventry of having TWO top class leisure facilities in its boundaries, at a time when it wants to close its swimming pool?

Why aren't we pressuring both sides and pointing out... it's good to talk?

I agree. But in order to do this, I think SISU need a candid declaration as to where they really are. Do they really, really want to build anew; or do they want a mutually beneficial partnership with the Ricoh's new owners.

Then all factions can bring influence to bear on a successful outcome. But this continued pretence from Fisher. is is posturing? Do they really want to build new? Do you know?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

But SISU keep on telling us they're building new. The council can't force them to buy what they tell us they don't want. So they've sold it to someone else. I think many people - again and people have differing view on franchise sport - see a significant sporting brand like Wasps being in town as being good. Personally, I don't. I don't have a ticket for the Irish game and I shall not be there. But Coventry is a city with a population in excess of 310,000, and 8K currently watch the city's football, sadly. And if enough of the balance are sick to the back teeth of successive football owners of this club behaving like fools, and want to watch some top-flight egg-chasing, I can see why they would go

I think everyone knows plan A was Ricoh despite what they were saying, plan B is anyones guess.

Personally I haven't seen a single good reason presented as to why anyone would go to Wasps. You make a good point about the 310k and I imagine most of them on the 21st December will be the glory hunting Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal fans, those who turned up for the Crewe and Chelsea matches which in the long term doesn't seem too promising (there called armchair fans for a reason). What disappoints me is with people on here who say they are going to Wasps and will seemingly switch there alleigance like a light switch, they will claim they can do both but not for me. I can't support a club whose arrival is only negative for Coventry City and I personally don't understand how a Coventry City fan could justify it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I agree. But in order to do this, I think SISU need a candid declaration as to where they really are. Do they really, really want to build anew; or do they want a mutually beneficial partnership with the Ricoh's new owners.

Then all factions can bring influence to bear on a successful outcome. But this continued pretence from Fisher. is is posturing? Do they really want to build new? Do you know?

Onew thing's for sure, in letting them have a free ride by thumbing our noses at them and sticking our tongues out, we continue to allow for opaque delivery of options.

All the time, we should have been pressuring the council to stop playing silly beggars in return. As proven, they could find a use for the Ricoh so there was no need to fight the football club. They could, instead, have bent over backwards to help find them land.

And if Fisher speaks truth, we'd be far further down the road to actually having a ground rather than this horrible despair... and if he speak with forked tongue, then there was one avenue of obfuscation cut off to him... meaning it more likely the club would end up doing a deal to stay at the Ricoh long term...

 

[ccfcway]

the biggest threads on this forum used to be about finance, courts and hedge funds...

now they are about rugby !

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I think everyone knows plan A was Ricoh despite what they were saying, plan B is anyones guess.

Personally I haven't seen a single good reason presented as to why anyone would go to Wasps. You make a good point about the 310k and I imagine most of them on the 21st December will be the glory hunting Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal fans, those who turned up for the Crewe and Chelsea matches which in the long term doesn't seem too promising (there called armchair fans for a reason). What disappoints me is with people on here who say they are going to Wasps and will seemingly switch there alleigance like a light switch, they will claim they can do both but not for me. I can't support a club whose arrival is only negative for Coventry City and I personally don't understand how a Coventry City fan could justify it.

I can understand your view. I've declared mine; it's different, but Wasps aren't for me for different reasons. I can see though, why a rugby-mad 10 year old would be pulling his Dad to the Ricoh to watch Haskell et al. It just shouldn't have come to this. I also agree with your first view. There was no new stadium. It was a soap-box for the distressing process successive JV judges clearly saw - just like the 'average League One rent' (remember that one?). SISU just over-played it, didn't see another party coming in, and by the time they did, the relationship between SISU and all other stakeholders (CCC, ACL, Higgs, etc) was so strained that agreement was impossible

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I can understand your view. I've declared mine; it's different, but Wasps aren't for me for different reasons. I can see though, why a rugby-mad 10 year old would be pulling his Dad to the Ricoh to watch Haskell et al. It just shouldn't have come to this. I also agree with your first view. There was no new stadium. It was a soap-box for the distressing process successive JV judges clearly saw - just like the 'average League One rent' (remember that one? SISU just over-played it, didn't see another party coming in, and by the time they did, the relationship between SISU and all other stakeholders (CCC, ACL, Higgs, etc) was so strained that agreement was impossible

Nail on head there MMM.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Onew thing's for sure, in letting them have a free ride by thumbing our noses at them and sticking our tongues out, we continue to allow for opaque delivery of options.

All the time, we should have been pressuring the council to stop playing silly beggars in return. As proven, they could find a use for the Ricoh so there was no need to fight the football club. They could, instead, have bent over backwards to help find them land.

And if Fisher speaks truth, we'd be far further down the road to actually having a ground rather than this horrible despair... and if he speak with forked tongue, then there was one avenue of obfuscation cut off to him... meaning it more likely the club would end up doing a deal to stay at the Ricoh long term...

Agreed. I've never thought the council played with a totally straight bat on this one. I do though think that Fisher's stance gave them the stage on which to perform. The sad thing is, the councillors will move on; at some point SISU will move on. We're left with a homeless football club in terminal decline and ill-feeling between fans

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Nail on head there MMM.

We agree at last! Pastries, Sir?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We agree at last! Pastries, Sir?

You will do well to outdo the local bakeries here, one of them won the World Scotch Pie Championships a while ago. I think we've had wires crossed on this topic for some time-the plan would've worked, if it weren't for those meddling Wasps.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Do you think Lucas sat fisher and seppella down and explained the offer made to Wasps and have them the opportunity to take the deal?

You know as well as I do that confidentiality agreements will have been signed.

 

[Ashdown]

But SISU keep on telling us they're building new. The council can't force them to buy what they tell us they don't want. So they've sold it to someone else. I think many people - again and people have differing view on franchise sport - see a significant sporting brand like Wasps being in town as being good. Personally, I don't. I don't have a ticket for the Irish game and I shall not be there. But Coventry is a city with a population in excess of 310,000, and 8K currently watch the city's football, sadly. And if enough of the balance are sick to the back teeth of successive football owners of this club behaving like fools, and want to watch some top-flight egg-chasing, I can see why they would go

It's shameful bandwagonning that's all. We've had a Rugby team for many years who with some support could be competing in the top echelons but it seems the modern mentality is to try and attach yourself with instant success. A bit of decent marketing and the chance of getting in with the in crowd and some muppets would eat an ice cream full of catshit ! Hey Ho lets just go down the Lucas way though shall we, a Coventry football team from 1883 she's happy to see crumble a tad more every week, A Coventry Rugby team from 1874 who are on the up, made a profit last year and have just won 9 on the bounce who she'd effectively try and sign over to Wasps development and a City dating back sometime to the 10th Century who she'd like to sign over to the mercy of the fucking Brummies in her Greater Birmingham dream, FFS !!

 

[hinkleee boyz]

From someone who lives in Hinckley, Leicestershire! Would you Adam and Eve it!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It's shameful bandwagonning that's all. We've had a Rugby team for many years who with some support could be competing in the top echelons but it seems the modern mentality is to try and attach yourself with instant success. A bit of decent marketing and the chance of getting in with the in crowd and some muppets would eat an ice cream full of catshit ! Hey Ho lets just go down the Lucas way though shall we, a Coventry football team from 1883 she's happy to see crumble a tad more every week, A Coventry Rugby team from 1874 who are on the up, made a profit last year and have just won 9 on the bounce who she'd effectively try and sign over to Wasps development and a City dating back sometime to the 10th Century who she'd like to sign over to the mercy of the fucking Brummies in her Greater Birmingham dream, FFS !!

I'm sorry Ashdown but some of that I profoundly disagree with. CRFC are on the up, yes. Wasps haven't bought the rugby club; they've bought the lease to a stadium in the city, in which they will play rugby on non-competing days. Moreover, they have a player development and exchange deal with CRFC, and hope to remap the RFU Midlands area, so that the pathway stays local, and not to Worcester. In what way does this act to the detriment of CRFC? They can continue their existing trajectory, helped by players and coaching from Wasps and a remapped RFU pathway. What if CRFC become stronger than Wasps? There's nothing to stop that happening - apart from people getting off their arses and supporting their local traditional club. So, let them do it. If anything, this has galvanised support in favour of the local team

 

[Ashdown]

I'm sorry Ashdown but some of that I profoundly disagree with. CRFC are on the up, yes. Wasps haven't bought the rugby club; they've bought the lease to a stadium in the city, in which they will play rugby on non-competing days. Moreover, they have a player development and exchange deal with CRFC, and hope to remap the RFU Midlands area, so that the pathway stays local, and not to Worcester. In what way does this act to the detriment of CRFC? They can continue their existing trajectory, helped by players and coaching from Wasps and a remapped RFU pathway. What if CRFC become stronger than Wasps? There's nothing to stop that happening - apart from people getting off their arses and supporting their local traditional club. So, let them do it. If anything, this has galvanised support in favour of the local team

We'll have to agree to disagree then old boy because the way I see it, if Cov Rugby start in anyway to become Wasps reserves and feeder club, all identity will be lost and the general local Rugby fanbase may as well forget paying a bit less to watch the 2nd team and shell out a few extra quid out of their once a week sporting budget and go and watch the first team at the Ricoh and dump the football club while they are at it. CRFC become stronger than Wasps FFS, in that scenario it's hardly likely is it !?
Ultimately though it isn't Wasps that have caused all this shit, it's successive owners of Coventry City football club who spunked all the money away and the glory seeking types of the locality who will only give real support to their local clubs on event type days when it's almost free to get in and embrace every opportunity to embellish themselves with a 'trophy' type club.