One question my friend......could you have dealt with them?
here we go... (22 Viewers)
- Thread starter ccfc92
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rondog1973
Well-Known Member
Did you, or did you not say we are where we are because of fans and the councils attitude?
I think it's hopelessly naive to think Sisu unite club and stadium and think everything will be Hunky Dory. They have shown nowt but contempt for this club, supporters and citizens of Coventry in general. What on Earth makes you and a few others think their behaviour would change if they were to achieve this aim?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I have never had any problem with SISU having a similar deal to that which has been given to Wasps and I can't understand why any fan of CCFC would. In fact the deal with Wasps is far better than any deal I would have expected to be offered so I would have been overjoyed if SISU had been given similar.
If they go to court and get told to go away as they haven't got a case then so be it but what if it turns out this time they are right? Something about the way this deal with Wasps was done doesn't stack up to me. The constant line from CCC / Higgs / ACL was that things were going fantastically and there was no need to sell, next minute it's sold to Wasps on the cheap. Why would they sell if they were being truthful? They could have kept hold of ACL, with it ticking over at break even as a minimum, and then when SISU finally walk away they could do a deal with the new owners. Of course they could be untruthful in their statements without doing anything illegal but with the refusal from all sides involved to give any details on the sale something doesn't' seem right to me.
I don't want Wasps here, primarily because I think it has a huge impact on our ability to be successful and self sustaining in the future but also because I believe it just isn't right to move a team in this manner. It's a disgrace that ACL has been sold to them and if there is the slightest bit of evidence that something underhand has gone on then I fully support SISU taking this action. Of course their track record indicates there is every chance it's just a leverage tactic of some sort and they have no evidence whatsoever but I guess we'll find that out when this gets to court and if that is the case I absolutely agree that SISU shouldn't be going down this route. Trouble is we don't know if there's any evidence or not. History suggests not but surely even SISU aren't stupid enough to go through all this trouble and expense again if they don't think there's at least a slim chance of a positive outcome.
At the very least we should actually find out the detail of the deal. I don't think anyones going to get away with there's no record of any meetings etc this time round.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The start of an excuse to leave the Ricoh again.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What? In a stadium thats being expanded with state aid. SISU couldn't do that. It goes against their moral code dont you know.
rupert_bear
Well-Known Member
Something else to get us to take our eyes off the ball on the state of our football club. I suppose our glorious leader/leaders Fisher and Waggott will now come out of hibernation. Lets see how many of these 7 wishfuls Pressley is allowed to sign !
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The biggest mistake SISU made was the way they went about getting what they wanted. If at the point Fisher started banging on about rent they'd come out with a clear statement saying we can't go on paying £1.2m a year, we need ownership, we have submitted a bit for £xm for ACL I'm sure they would have got a fair amount of support. People got annoyed when they seemingly kept moving the goalposts. If SISU had been clear in what they wanted and what price they would pay the onus would be on CCC and Higgs to give a clear answer and justify their answer.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
If SISU got the Ricoh on a similar deal to that which Wasps have it would give them an exit strategy. Compare the value of CCFC now to a CCFC that came with effective ownership of a PL standard stadium. That value would increase even more if they put in a minimal investment and got us promoted back to the PL. At the moment it's hard to see how we can get rid of them, who would want to buy a homeless L1 club?
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Yes it is a contributing factor, unlike others I don't see black and white or good and bad. There isn't one point in time or one action you can point to and say definitively this is 100% to blame for the position we are in, where we are is a collective result of many bad choices and decisions over the years by numerous parties of which SISU have made the most bad choices but others have also done so and they should also be pulled up on it and come under scrutiny.
If you read my comment as I'm 100% blaming there attitude for our position, then that's not how it was intended as that would be a ridiculous viewpoint.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
I have read the Telegraph report on how much MR FISHER has "SAID" SISU/Otium offered. The man that said...."That ship has sailed"...."We are building our own Stadium"...and the "Piece de resistance"......"WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE RICOH"....BTW I've not seen any confirmation by ACL/Higgs/CCC of this £2.8m offer have you? Or do you believe every piece of Bulls**t that comes from any SISU/Otium source? Also, I think the phrase "Conditional Offer" "Pissed on their chips" don't you?
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
Yes, I dare say this was the case. But that does not take into account prospective legal/litigation cases they in all likely hood would have had to defend themselves against at costly expense.
In a way, Sisu's tactics worked. They did financially beleaguer CCC/ACL to the point where they had to discard the Ricoh. At the time of the Ricoh return, there was a load of guff from both sides about building trust and new relationships etc, but did anybody seriously believe this to be the case? Whilst they were still appealing the JR verdict?
Don't agree with Wasps being here either, but have got to the point where I genuinely think Sisu, that's Sisu NOT CCFC owning the Ricoh would be worse given their persistent conduct.
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
You don't know this. None of us do.
I think Sisu are of a malicious calibre that, if they did obtain the Ricoh, they'd hang around for a while just to ensure we are more Royally Rogered than what we presently are....
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I've not seen anything from ACL/Higgs/CCC to suggest they didn't offer what they said, if they were lying I'd have thought ACL/Higgs/CCC would have wanted to set the record straight pretty quickly.I have read the Telegraph report on how much MR FISHER has "SAID" SISU/Otium offered. The man that said...."That ship has sailed"...."We are building our own Stadium"...and the "Piece de resistance"......"WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE RICOH"....BTW I've not seen any confirmation by ACL/Higgs/CCC of this £2.8m offer have you? Or do you believe every piece of Bulls**t that comes from any SISU/Otium source? Also, I think the phrase "Conditional Offer" "Pissed on their chips" don't you?
Have you got any source to suggest they offered much less than Wasps other than you typing it?
Wrong colour seats ,lack of identity .
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
We do know this, clearly owning both the ground and the club gives an exit strategy, it doesn't mean they are going to take it but it would certainly exist and would in all likelihood maximise their ROI from their current position. As things stand at the moment the only exit strategy appears to be to walk away and write off every penny and if they take that option we need to desperately hope there's someone that wants to bid to purchase a L1 club with no ground in a relegation battle out of administration.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ CCFC......It doesn't take an Einstein to see that whatever offer SISU/Otium would have made, it was all going to be "Lip service" to CCFC fans, and nothing more. If as was reported by the Telegraph actually true that the offer was £30k more than Wasps, it didn't stand a "Snowball in hells chance" of success with all the "Conditions" attached, and well you know it!....How can a company with NO ASSETS make an offer of that magnitude, unless it was doing what CCC/ACL were accused of (State Aid) with SISU, or is that allowed because this is SISU we're talking about?
Was planning on going up to watch the game with the my kids tomorrow but this has just confirmed why I have stayed away, fuck our owners sick of this shit our owners trying to say it makes no difference to the club ! well yes it does it pisses some of the fans off and that is one of the reasons they are staying away. Our owners are really complete and utterly dumb as fuck when it comes to trying to build bridges with their fans ! Totally dismayed at this really am
In what way does the actions of two commercial elephants banging heads affect you watching a football match?
rondog1973
Well-Known Member
Okay, agree it would, but as you said, doesn't mean they would take it....
Is this latest action likely to improve the working relationship with Wasps? Don't think so...
Wouldn't engaging in a friendly, cordial working relationship with Wasps (and the fans of CCFC) be a better strategy of slowly clawing back losses incurred? I would say yes, but once again they have ably demonstrated what they are all about, and for that and many other reasons, they should never be encouraged with their bid for Ricoh ownership.
What assets do WASPS have - pray tell?
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ oldfiver......Please re-read my post...I'm talking about SISU/Otium/CCFC ltd.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
This seems this is only a move by sisu as to going through the motions this is not a whole new saga. This is related to the appeal and is just a natural process so perhaps we shouldn't be as down as we are but we hear more legals and we think oh fuck here we go again.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I agree there was no chance in hell it would be successful, not because of the conditions but because Higgs had no intention of selling to anyone other than Wasps.
Unsure of your point about state aid, I don't support the continued legal action against the council as it seems they don't have a case and it is a waste of time and resources.
So your saying you made it up that the offer was much less than Wasps offered?
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Let it go Sisu, you've lost. Stop the attempts to seek "justice for the Coventry taxpayer" by trying to screw them out of money.
You are losers, you don't know how to succeed, so just give up this battle now and try not to inflict further damage on our club.
You are losers, you don't know how to succeed, so just give up this battle now and try not to inflict further damage on our club.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Anyone who was thinking SISU are suitable owners or owners that we should tolerate really needs to think again.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ CCFC.....No I didn't make it up. I distinctly remember Fisher saying they wouldn't make a "Cash offer" for that kind of money, but were willing to put some "Insentives" in "The pot"....obviously I can't find the quote atm......Wait a minute....does this help?......................Coventry City chairman Tim Fisher has described an offer from the club’s owners to purchase a half share in the Ricoh Arena business as “very generous”. Mr Fisher also said the football club ‘owed it to the fans’ to try and secure a stake in the Ricoh Arena operating firm ACL. Sky Blues’ owners tabled a last-minute bid to buy out a 50 per cent share of ACL owned by The Alan Edward Higgs Charity. He added that the offer was not purely financial but also included an opportunity for the club and the Higgs charity to put any previous bad blood behind them and work together in the community. However, the Sky Blues chairman also insisted the club was still forging ahead with plans to build its own stadium. He said: “We have made a conditional offer – we are still awaiting vital information. “Through the liquidator the club has been given an opportunity to purchase the Higgs’ shares in ACL and we have made a very generous offer. “This might be a unique opportunity and we owe it to the fans to try to purchase a stake in the Ricoh Arena thereby securing our short-term future, and to bolster revenues in regards to financial fairplay and improve the product on the pitch, which will be the first time since we left Highfield Road. “This does not detract from us building our own stadium; it is important we keep a focus in that because we need access to 100 per cent of stadium revenues. “The offer is not just a financial offer, we have also proposed a far-reaching partnership with the charity to use the power of football to create a community programme. “It’s about using football for community cohesion and the ultimate betterment of the whole Coventry community. “This is a very serious offer. We have to look beyond any past issues with the relationship between the charity and football club. The club comes first.” The Higgs Charity recently agreed a deal to sell its shares in the company to Premiership rugby side Wasps for £2.77million. That followed the news Coventry City Council had completed the sale of its 50 per cent stake in ACL to Wasps for the same figure. However, CCFC Ltd – a company in the final stages of liquidation but still part of the Sisu family – still has first option rights to purchase the charity’s shares.....................................................As I stated in a previous post...How can a company(CCFCltd) in final stages of liquidation make monetary offers when it has no money??? unless (State Aid) from SISU/Otium comes into play???........................Are you saying that you believe Fisher when he says they made a £2.8m offer?
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ CCFC.....No I didn't make it up. I distinctly remember Fisher saying they wouldn't make a "Cash offer" for that kind of money, but were willing to put some "Insentives" in "The pot"....obviously I can't find the quote atm......Wait a minute....does this help?......................Coventry City chairman Tim Fisher has described an offer from the club’s owners to purchase a half share in the Ricoh Arena business as “very generous”. Mr Fisher also said the football club ‘owed it to the fans’ to try and secure a stake in the Ricoh Arena operating firm ACL. Sky Blues’ owners tabled a last-minute bid to buy out a 50 per cent share of ACL owned by The Alan Edward Higgs Charity. He added that the offer was not purely financial but also included an opportunity for the club and the Higgs charity to put any previous bad blood behind them and work together in the community. However, the Sky Blues chairman also insisted the club was still forging ahead with plans to build its own stadium. He said: “We have made a conditional offer – we are still awaiting vital information. “Through the liquidator the club has been given an opportunity to purchase the Higgs’ shares in ACL and we have made a very generous offer. “This might be a unique opportunity and we owe it to the fans to try to purchase a stake in the Ricoh Arena thereby securing our short-term future, and to bolster revenues in regards to financial fairplay and improve the product on the pitch, which will be the first time since we left Highfield Road. “This does not detract from us building our own stadium; it is important we keep a focus in that because we need access to 100 per cent of stadium revenues. “The offer is not just a financial offer, we have also proposed a far-reaching partnership with the charity to use the power of football to create a community programme. “It’s about using football for community cohesion and the ultimate betterment of the whole Coventry community. “This is a very serious offer. We have to look beyond any past issues with the relationship between the charity and football club. The club comes first.” The Higgs Charity recently agreed a deal to sell its shares in the company to Premiership rugby side Wasps for £2.77million. That followed the news Coventry City Council had completed the sale of its 50 per cent stake in ACL to Wasps for the same figure. However, CCFC Ltd – a company in the final stages of liquidation but still part of the Sisu family – still has first option rights to purchase the charity’s shares.....................................................As I stated in a previous post...How can a company(CCFCltd) in final stages of liquidation make monetary offers when it has no money??? unless (State Aid) from SISU/Otium comes into play???........................Are you saying that you believe Fisher when he says they made a £2.8m offer?
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The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
Agree with a lot of what you say but this time I think you're wrong. You want this to carry on?
They have no chance like they have had no chance every time they have tried this because they are full of shit. Some supposed clever people on here and from the world of journalism tried to imply they knew what they were doing with the JR and look where that got them. This has no legs like the rest of the pile of shite cases they have brought before. Sadly, if you think this is a good thing when there is no chance and the only thing this will affect is our budget for January.
More money wasted on lawyers when it could be better spent on the team.
Do people really think that dodgy dealings have been going on with the Wasps deal after all of the crap we have been through in the last 7 years and the attention that has been on the club.
The only positive thing that comes from this for Sisu is that some more people start thinking what you are which they think gives them the power to continue with these absurd court cases.
Can anyone (probably Stupot) come up with any stats on football club owners who have come out with so many cases in a short space of time and won fuck all?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
If I was Wasps I'd tell us to go somewhere else.
Really hope on Sunday I like what I see.
Really hope on Sunday I like what I see.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
it isn't state aid if public funds aren't being used. Councils use public funds, private companies don't.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
If, and it's a huge if, SISU have evidence that something untoward has occurred during this deal I absolutely want them to carry on with legal action, I want them to win it and I want the end result to be Wasps buggering off back to London. If they have nothing then they absolutely should not even be considering legal action and should be concentrating on building a relationship with Wasps.
Of course if we just look at past history with SISU this is very much wishful thinking. But for all we know something has gone on, looking on from outside it doesn't look all on the up and up to me. That's just a gut feeling of course, I don't have access to anything that could back that up with evidence but if it has happened then I certainly don't want a shrug of the shoulders and everyone getting away with selling our stadium out from under us on the cheap, I want some action to put things right.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
I will be interested to see what arguments Sisu have about the sale. Their arguments always seem very weak, they tend to accuse the council of things that aren't actually illegal (I.e. CCC politicians made decisions based on politics).
Nick
Administrator
Why?
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
.... or the fans that continue to be pissed off with it all.
I predict crowds will drop further and any chance of staying at the Ricoh after 2 years is diminishing by the hour.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
Nothing will be proven. If Sisu are going to claim the stadium was sold on the cheap, and throw the state aid accusations around again they are onto a loser. After the loan leading to the JR CCC will have made sure the legality of this sale is watertight.