change of mind (12 Viewers)

[Otis]

My problem with Hoffman is two fold. Firstly, SISU have seen no 'proof of funds' to take him seriously and, more importantly, he was part of the boards that got us where we are. The fact he did little more than assault SISU through the media just weakens his position for me. SISU have asset stripped us to keep us alive it looks like. I still wouldn't say I trust them - they have outright lied to us, but atm we have no option.

But to be fair, it didn't even get to that stage did it. Think once stuff was leaked out it all fell apart from that point forwards. Yes, he was on the board. I would say in his favour though at least he quit on a matter of principal, so fair play to him for that.

 

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[wingy]

My problem with Hoffman is two fold. Firstly, SISU have seen no 'proof of funds' to take him seriously and, more importantly, he was part of the boards that got us where we are. The fact he did little more than assault SISU through the media just weakens his position for me. SISU have asset stripped us to keep us alive it looks like. I still wouldn't say I trust them - they have outright lied to us, but atm we have no option.

TBH sheepy he did'nt serve on the board very long,seemed like Ranson ran the show ,with his supreme knowledge of football ,appionting poor managers ,with poor tactics,and sacking them willy nilly, coleman particularly seemed a puppet appiontment.don't think sisu really wanted to allow him to get so far as to prove funds IMO.

 

[sky blue zam]

My problem with Hoffman is two fold. Firstly, SISU have seen no 'proof of funds' to take him seriously and, more importantly, he was part of the boards that got us where we are. The fact he did little more than assault SISU through the media just weakens his position for me. SISU have asset stripped us to keep us alive it looks like. I still wouldn't say I trust them - they have outright lied to us, but atm we have no option.

As i understood it all, he was just the face of the takeover until it was complete so he may not have been on the board anyway

 

[ICHAN]

As i understood it all, he was just the face of the takeover until it was complete so he may not have been on the board anyway

So if that was the case then what differance did it make that he's a cov fan to so many people?
Just don't think he had what he thought he had, whats happened to him/joe and the like anyway, they have not been in the media for a while spouting anything off.
I honestly do not think he would have been the answer to the problem as I think in a couple of years down the line we would have beeen in the situation we are in now.
Serious takeover's to me do not get done via the media (unless there is an alteria motif) they just seem to happen and get done privatly, sisu were not thye only ones running to the media here.
Weather you hate or just accept them, maybe just maybe they did have the clubs interest at heart on this one and could see straight through the proposed takeover bid?

 

[ajsccfc]

I like how you've put it that anyone not in line with your view has been 'sucked in'.

 

[lordsummerisle]

But what would Hoffman gain from putting a bid forward with no money in place to back it up ?
He is a well respected business man who would do a lot better job at city than Sisu.

I think the reason they didn't come back in with another bid is quite clear, Sisu have messed them about so much and to the point that they just couldn't do business with them.
We have to remember that it's only Hoffman who is a Cov fan, his backers are just investors who are there for the return, and there are a lot more things out there to invest in than Coventry City football club, and without the hassle of having to deal with business men who havn't got a clue.

All this crap about Hoffman and his being a well respected businessman, and people going on about what a great banker he is, wish people would do some research.

He was removed from his job as boss of Barclaycard due to in 2005, a 19% drop in profits(3 years before the "crash"), and a 44% rise in bad debt provision, and in 2006 a further 40% drop in profits with bad debts up another 37%, and made Vice-Chairman in charge of equality and diversity(you don't get more sidelined than that).

He also "left" the job at Northern Rock a year earlier than planned(though kindly waived his bonus), and didn't save them, or turn them around, most of the hard work done before he got there.

If the Tories push ahead with their plans to sell Northern Rock then the tax-payer would still be left with around an £800million loss, not exactly a great turnround there.

Generally the same people all for SISU and Ranson at the start now supporting Hoffman, because Ranson was "a successful businessman", and SISU a hard nosed Hedge Fund, who won't get ripped off on player contracts and want to make money.

Why the surprise now that SISU are doing what they've always done which is play hard-ball?(Though without understanding football possibly)

 

[Gaz]

But he did turn things around a hell of a lot at NR
And he IS a well respect business man.

 

[lordsummerisle]

But he did turn things around a hell of a lot at NR
And he IS a well respect business man.

Can you actually read? Or is it just comprehension that's the problem for you?

 

[Astute]

But he did turn things around a hell of a lot at NR
And he IS a well respect business man.

What good did he do at Northern Rock then other than finish them off?

 

[Gaz]

Well look I don't try to claim that I know how the world of business finance works, and I'm not here to just blindly stick up for who I think is the best option for Coventry city football.
So I ask people who do know the world of business and as my soon to be retiring dad who is the owner / director of one of the midlands top accounts firms, to give me his view on a man who is trying to take over our club, and his view on Hoffman is that he is a top business man.

Well that's good enough for me, and I'm going to listen to someone like that a lot more than Joe blogs off a football forum with all due respect.

 

[wingy]

What good did he do at Northern Rock then other than finish them off?

Think robert peston did the most damage there astute.

 

[Astute]

I have no problem with Hoffman trying to get investors together to take our club forward. I welcome it. The only problem is the false hopes and uncertainty it brings. Not good for the team or the fans. The last bid seems to be badly thought out.

So what did your dad say then? I am very interested. I am a small time investor. I do not pretend to know everything, but my share portfolio has done OK in the credit crunch. I look after my own portfolio.

I would prefer the next owners to have money to invest in our squad. SISU have reduced the wagebill by getting rid of the deadwood and players on inflated wages and ego's. We now have a better base to build on. We either increase our income, get fresh investment or keep buying low and selling as high as we can.

 

[Astute]

Think robert peston did the most damage there astute.

He went there to turn things round, but made a few wrong decisions. I have not blamed him for the problems, the same as most that took over dodgy institutions. Some did better than others. We need someone that can turn things around, not keep letting them go downhill.

 

[Gaz]

Can you actually read? Or is it just comprehension that's the problem for you?

Why have you got to be such a dick head ?

Are we not all Coventry fans but just with different opinions ????
If you don't like views that are different from your own then you really
shouldn't be on an internet forum.

Grow up!

 

[valiant15]

Calm down ladies

 

[lordsummerisle]

Well look I don't try to claim that I know how the world of business finance works, and I'm not here to just blindly stick up for who I think is the best option for Coventry city football.
So I ask people who do know the world of business and as my soon to be retiring dad who is the owner / director of one of the midlands top accounts firms, to give me his view on a man who is trying to take over our club, and his view on Hoffman is that he is a top business man.

Well that's good enough for me, and I'm going to listen to someone like that a lot more than Joe blogs off a football forum with all due respect.

That's alright then, wasn't accountants who signed off RBS's accounts as okay then before they collapsed?

 

[Astute]

This site is full of people with an opinion and people with a realistic opinion.

For the people that say SISU out please let me know the alternative. We do not have one at the moment. The moment we do then things can change. I have a feeling though that they will not want to sell but to have investors join them. The hard work is done. Now we need cash to finish the job off. Maybe either they can't raise the millions needed, or their investors feel they have invested enough already.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Why have you got to be such a dick head ?

Are we not all Coventry fans but just with different opinions ????
If you don't like views that are different from your own then you really
shouldn't be on an internet forum.

Grow up!

So it wasn't a lack of comprehension then? Just wilfully ignoring the facts?

I apologise for any misunderstanding.

 

[Gaz]

I have no problem with Hoffman trying to get investors together to take our club forward. I welcome it. The only problem is the false hopes and uncertainty it brings. Not good for the team or the fans. The last bid seems to be badly thought out.

So what did your dad say then? I am very interested. I am a small time investor. I do not pretend to know everything, but my share portfolio has done OK in the credit crunch. I look after my own portfolio.

I would prefer the next owners to have money to invest in our squad. SISU have reduced the wagebill by getting rid of the deadwood and players on inflated wages and ego's. We now have a better base to build on. We either increase our income, get fresh investment or keep buying low and selling as high as we can.

I just asked him to have a look at it all really and give me his opinion.
His view on Hoffman, his view on how Sisu have run the club, stuff like that really, he looked at stuff on companys house or somthing.

I just don't really understand all that sort of stuff so i thought i would ask someone who does.

I must say though matey that i don't agree at all that sisu have just got rid of deadwood players, Ben Turner being an example.

 

[Disenchanted]

Tired of it all now
APATHY RULES OK
SISU don't care but won't walk and the takeovers a dead duck

 

[Gaz]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-Gary-Hoffman-tipped-to-depart-next-week.html

''Mr Hoffman has been credited with the dramatic turnaround at Northern Rock''

Just your facts

 

[Astute]

I just asked him to have a look at it all really and give me his opinion.
His view on Hoffman, his view on how Sisu have run the club, stuff like that really, he looked at stuff on companys house or somthing.

I just don't really understand all that sort of stuff so i thought i would ask someone who does.

I must say though matey that i don't agree at all that sisu have just got rid of deadwood players, Ben Turner being an example.

Turner is the only player they sold. He was out most of last season injured. We are strongest at the back. We had to sell to buy a striker. We did not have to replace the player sold as well as raise funds to buy the player most needed. Out of all the players with a value he was the best one to sell. We are playing well at the back without him. We also don't know how well his knee will stand up to a full season. Will he ever fully recover from his injury? Will he ever be as good as he was at the start of last season? We will find out when he starts playing again.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Clearly GH must be well respected with a decent business reputation to have got the jobs he has had. You dont get those jobs without ability and a proven track record. Whether he was a success or not in those positions I really dont know. What I would say is that reputation doesnt stop you making mistakes or getting things wrong. I think the way the failed bid went pear shaped, indeed the conduct of it did his reputation with a fair number of people no good at all. Remains to be seen whether he can come back from it with a credible bid or indeed whether he is the right man to lead such a bid at all.

 

[Gaz]

For the people that say SISU out please let me know the alternative.

The alternative bid was Hoffmans bid,and in my opinion was a good thing for our club.
Sisu didn't want to go for it because they would have had to have given the club up for nothing, somthing they said wasn't good enough.
Funny thing is, thats how they got our club in the first place.

Its now not there so you can say there isn't an alternative bid anymore, and thats down to sisu.

The Hoffs backers have now pulled out because how sisu have acted over the talks, and you can't blame them really.

 

[Astute]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-Gary-Hoffman-tipped-to-depart-next-week.html

''Mr Hoffman has been credited with the dramatic turnaround at Northern Rock''

Just your facts

Old news. From Oct 2010. More came out after then. We can all find a page of someones thoughts that look good.

 

[Astute]

The alternative bid was Hoffmans bid,and in my opinion was a good thing for our club.
Sisu didn't want to go for it because they would have had to have given the club up for nothing, somthing they said wasn't good enough.
Funny thing is, thats how they got our club in the first place.

Its now not there so you can say there isn't an alternative bid anymore, and thats down to sisu.

The Hoffs backers have now pulled out because how sisu have acted over the talks, and you can't blame them really.

If I remember correctly they got our club about 15 mins before admin. We are in a better situation than then, although a fair few people seem to have forgotten the fact. Admin would have put us a division below where we are now.

We all have to agree that there was problems with the bid. We will never know the full facts though.

 

[Gaz]

Old news. From Oct 2010. More came out after then. We can all find a page of someones thoughts that look good.

Exactly !

We can all see pages,posts and thoughts of someones opinions on Hoffman

But the fact he keeps getting top end jobs in the business world of finance says a lot more.

 

[oldskyblue58]

The alternative bid was Hoffmans bid,and in my opinion was a good thing for our club.
Sisu didn't want to go for it because they would have had to have given the club up for nothing, somthing they said wasn't good enough.
Funny thing is, thats how they got our club in the first place.

Its now not there so you can say there isn't an alternative bid anymore, and thats down to sisu.

The Hoffs backers have now pulled out because how sisu have acted over the talks, and you can't blame them really.

Was the bid by GH ever credible ? - you didnt have to be financially skilled to realise that there was no way SISU would ever go for it. Got to be honest i found the whole process a waste of time riddled with conflict and inaccuracies on both sides.

How SISU got hold of the club - when it was them or oblivion- really has no bearing what so ever on what they sell it for. Its a non arguement.

Not having an on going bid by GH is just as much his fault as SISU's - he didnt put the bid in that would tempt them or that was properly constituted. Looking at his bid it was more of the same old formula which keeps leading us into trouble.

The bid was hostile in the first place - it was withdrawn because it wasnt of interest really to SISU, the shenanigans over disclosure and the fact that there were people involved who should not have been. You cant blame one side or the other they both made a pigs ear of it.

 

[Gaz]

If I remember correctly they got our club about 15 mins before admin. We are in a better situation than then, although a fair few people seem to have forgotten the fact. Admin would have put us a division below where we are now.

I don't think we are in a better situation now, we are still losing money, we still don't own any of the stadium, we have a smaller squad, and to top it all off, we have taken out a loan on future ticket sales.

 

[Gaz]

How SISU got hold of the club - when it was them or oblivion- really has no bearing what so ever on what they sell it for. Its a non arguement.

But it wasn't them or oblivion because they was an other interested party,

If sisu got the club for nothing then they shouldn't be up in arms when they get offered nothing for it, of course there is an argument there.

How it can be ok for others to lose money for sisu to take control but then sisu not do the same is just double standards.

 

[Astute]

I don't think we are in a better situation now, we are still losing money, we still don't own any of the stadium, we have a smaller squad, and to top it all off, we have taken out a loan on future ticket sales.

We are in the Championship, not 1st Div or lower. Our losses are much lower than they were. A few wins will get many more into the ground....could be making a profit time. Where is your proof on the rumour that we have taken out a loan on future ticket sales? Can you please keep debates to the truth and not rumours please? The loans we have are from SISU interest free. So have they loaned us money on future ticket sales? I think not. In a way yes, but as a whole no. You could say the loans are on a basis of reaching the Prem. That is where the serious money is, but this does not sound as good to the SISU out followers.

 

[torchomatic]

IMHO we are certainly better off with SISU than without them . We would be in L1 or L2 with god only knows who playing for us.

And as i've said countless times, the blame for not owning the ricoh does not lie with SISU but with Richardson.

We can all argue about SISU, but there is no alternative. sad, but true.

 

[Gaz]

We are in the Championship, not 1st Div or lower. Our losses are much lower than they were. A few wins will get many more into the ground....could be making a profit time. Where is your proof on the rumour that we have taken out a loan on future ticket sales? Can you please keep debates to the truth and not rumours please? The loans we have are from SISU interest free. So have they loaned us money on future ticket sales? I think not. In a way yes, but as a whole no. You could say the loans are on a basis of reaching the Prem. That is where the serious money is, but this does not sound as good to the SISU out followers.

We were in the championship when sisu took control, = no better then.

We are still losing a hell of a lot of money = no better then.

The squad is not better now than when they became owners. = no better then

The attendances at the Ricoh are down from when sisu became owners. = No better now.

Could be making profit time ? :facepalm:

''In a way yes, but on a whole no'' a loan is a loan, this is not good the sisu lovers must see that ?
Also the money from the football league every club gets, sisu have taken a loan out on that.

 

[ICHAN]

This really does keep going around in circles.
Sisu are not to blame for everything.
We all want better things for the club.
There is no alternative at the moment.
Sisu are not in this to destroy the club (as this would have no benifit to them whatsever IMO).
We will all agree to disagree on this topic unfortunatly the sisu out fans see it there way and the fans who want them out but know there is no alternative see it there way.
Unfortunatly neither camp will convince the other camp and this subject will just go around in circles until something happens,
IE Sisu had a plan all along and the club turns around and they get investors in to help them finance the club more.
Sisu walk (hope not admin)
Someone buys them out.

 

[ICHAN]

Sorry gaz I don't think many on here are sisu lovers but just people who do not see an alternative at the moment.