SISU need to go to save our club (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sharpie83
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Covstu
Well-Known Member
yes we had a fantastic club, we owned the stadium and were in the prem!! Oh thats right we were not!
I dont like SISU but they picked up an underperforming, debt riddled club in the middle of a recession and they could not do anything with us. I hope we get someone else in but the Hoff would not add anything different in my opinion, he certianly would not give us millions to spend as first spouted.
I dont like SISU but they picked up an underperforming, debt riddled club in the middle of a recession and they could not do anything with us. I hope we get someone else in but the Hoff would not add anything different in my opinion, he certianly would not give us millions to spend as first spouted.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
is this yet another idiot who believes if sisu pull out and we go into admin that cov will be better off?
i dont like how sisu conducted themselves with hoffman,but im still grateful they are keeping us afloat each month
i dont like how sisu conducted themselves with hoffman,but im still grateful they are keeping us afloat each month
I have a problem with this blind faith in Hoffman as the white knight who will cure City's problems for ever - seems to me that this bears a strong resemblance to the blind faith that Dhinsa would lead us to the promised land. And we all know where that went!
The thing I see is we are just getting more into debt with this lot. Take for example the finances we have already took a loan out against next years season tickets. This is just to stay afloat so once Xmas comes along and we run out of money what happens we either sell or ppl dont get paid. We have more board members than ever from all over the world and they don't care about the club just fiddling the books.
I think you will find the season ticket loan was last summer (2010) when we also mortgaged ryton to help buy players.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Actually we have less debt than GR etc left us with in 2007 - what it currently is for the SBSL group is unknown but I doubt it is increasing as rapidly as it has been over the last 10years. They havent financed next years season tickets they financed this years to get the money upfront rather than over a number of months. Have said that they will support cashflow till end of season and quite likely given player sales, add on income, wage savings, overhead savings, reduced contract amortisation the cashflow requirement is nothing like it used to be - not sure there will be any cashflow problem at Xmas. Player sales were not a secret it was a stated policy in the accounts, we like nearly all clubs rely on player trading to survive - fact of life. How are they fiddling the books then ? The board was just as big during the BR GR MM era - current board members have two that live abroad does that really affect the decision making ? Yes I agree the Board should be seen regularly at the club but does them being abroad stop decisions being made?
Sub
Well-Known Member
although i do not think hoffman is a knight in shinning armour coming to our rescue, one thing than can not be denied is the fact he is a cov fan through and through for me that is one big difference between the people that owns us and hoffman. He seems to have the club at heart wether that would cloud desions is a different matter but to SISU we are a bottom line or a profit margin (if they ever make one) but to hoffman we are his home club and im sure he would want what is best for the club the city and the fans.
Mumford and Daughter
New Member
Are we better off though since 2007?
In 2007 average gate at the ricoh was almost 20,000 this season so far its 15,000. Big difference.
Players. The squad in 2007 was overall better then the squad now.
Financial position – Might be slightly better off but we have no assets.
Stats dont lie and since SISU have been in control we have lost 5,000 fans.
In 2007 average gate at the ricoh was almost 20,000 this season so far its 15,000. Big difference.
Players. The squad in 2007 was overall better then the squad now.
Financial position – Might be slightly better off but we have no assets.
Stats dont lie and since SISU have been in control we have lost 5,000 fans.
Think we have lost 5000 fans due to the rubbish football on the pitch. Bad manager appointments by Ranson.
Financial position - everything was mortgaged to the banks and robinson at the takeover and we were paying interest.
Bank had first call on any money from player sales.
Now - everything is owned by sbs&l (ryton has been paid off)
Hull, Man City, Leicester all had takeovers and don't own their ground.
Owning the ground is not the problem - its the fact we only get 23 days on match ticket sales and nothing else for our rent.
No car parking, catering, stadium naming rights, no use of the ground on non-matchdays to make money, nothing from concerts....
This is not the same at the other clubs who rent stadiums - they rent them for the whole year.
Financial position - everything was mortgaged to the banks and robinson at the takeover and we were paying interest.
Bank had first call on any money from player sales.
Now - everything is owned by sbs&l (ryton has been paid off)
Hull, Man City, Leicester all had takeovers and don't own their ground.
Owning the ground is not the problem - its the fact we only get 23 days on match ticket sales and nothing else for our rent.
No car parking, catering, stadium naming rights, no use of the ground on non-matchdays to make money, nothing from concerts....
This is not the same at the other clubs who rent stadiums - they rent them for the whole year.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
taking ailing loss making companies with few assets and turning them around for a sale is SISU's core business - its what they do. Its business it has nothing to do with love of anything. Its like saying Venkys went into Blackburn because they loved the club - they didnt it was a business opportunity.
Cannot believe you prefer BR to SISU. BR & co got us in the mess in the first place - the reason SISU were able to come in. Suggest you research some of our history.
Still havent explained what it is that SISU in your opinion have done wrong (they have not got it all right not by a long way but it isnt all wrong either). Please explain
Cannot believe you prefer BR to SISU. BR & co got us in the mess in the first place - the reason SISU were able to come in. Suggest you research some of our history.
Still havent explained what it is that SISU in your opinion have done wrong (they have not got it all right not by a long way but it isnt all wrong either). Please explain
Astute
Well-Known Member
Stats don't lie, but there is a lot less money around to be spent since 2007. The economy went tits up since. Lots of people lost their jobs, work less hours, no pay rises and more, but the cost of living keeps going up. This is another thing that went against SISU.
Mumford and Daughter
New Member
But if you look at most teams. Average attendance is higher. Agree the football may not be the best but SISU have pushed fans away, i know a few who won’t go back until SISU leave.
I trhink the Leicester game showed this. Opening day of the season against our local rivals and we only get 19,000 and this included 5,500 inbreds.
I don't like SISU because the club is all doom and gloom these days. They just seem to lie to the fans. Don't even make money off our best players. We lost 3 of our best players in the summer and got £0 for them. I do know my history and during BR era at least there was good players come in and we wasn't struggling in the championship with a small squad and no good players to sell.
Please explain why your defending SISU?
Please explain why your defending SISU?
Glenn Storer
New Member
Because, sadly. There's bugger all else but the cold embrace of admin.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
As Glenn said, sadly with Hoffman's consortium pulling the plug there doesn't seem to be a viable alternative for now.
I'd far rather Hoffman's consortium ran our club than these clowns though because even if they're keeping us afloat financially they've done nothing to suggest they will take us forward.
I'd far rather Hoffman's consortium ran our club than these clowns though because even if they're keeping us afloat financially they've done nothing to suggest they will take us forward.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Not defending them sharpie but i dont see it as they are all bad. I never have defended SISU but i do express how i think things are. Just like you its just an opinion
I take a realistic approach i guess, they are here and in control for now and we have to work with that - that does not mean accept that only work with. I am neither pro nor anti but I do think that SISU have lost the fans and is time they they went. Trouble with that is there is no credible alternative - more of the same tired "investment" schemes that saddle us with as much debt is not a good option in my opinion, (that was essentially GH's plan). Financially they are making the sensible right moves but have done it too late, they had a poor entry plan and restricted exit strategy. Taking an open mind there is still a possiblity that they could leave us better off and higher up the table just as likely as more debt and relegated right now - nothing is set in stone
Those same expensive players are the ones that got us relegated btw - and with massive unsustainable debts that seriously threatened our existence. It might have seemed more exciting but in the end it was a failure any way you look at it.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
Unless a sugar daddy came along and wanted us to be the next Man City or Chelsea, surely an investment scheme is all we can hope for?
So these people who won't go back unless SISU leave - they won't go to a play-off game if we ever reach them with SISU in charge? That's not the reason they aren't going believe me.
In 2007, we still had the 'RICOH effect'. There was the novelty of a new stadium back then which is wearing off now. I'm pretty sure our attendances now are no lower than they were at HR, though I'll admit I haven't checked that.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
depends how the money put in GSS. If it is put in as loans then debt remains but if put in as share capital then the balance sheet is viewed as stronger, stronger balance sheet gives us a better credit rating, could lead to shares being offered to fans, a whole better feel to the club..... to name but a few things
If new owners are really that confident about our future why not put the money in so that it is best for the club not in a way that allows the"investor" to cut and run and perhaps charge interest. So far "investment" seems to me to have been made in a way to protect the investors - when lets be honest most people who invest in clubs dont expect to get money back. If they dont expect to get money back then lock money into the club as a proper investment (shares - which can only be cashed in on a sale) rather than a loan (which can be called in at any time and can cost interest making losses worse - and shows as a liability on the balance sheet) .
But it only works if they buy into proper financial control and living within their means
Mumford and Daughter
New Member
Sutty – No doubt the attendances will rise if we got into the playoffs BUT let’s be realistic. Many fans have had enough of SISU and while were a bottom half team and sisu in charge that will stay at the hardcore 12,000.
As for owning the ground, under SISU this will never happen. The council or the trust will not sell there share.
Face the facts while under SISU the club is going nowhere.
As for owning the ground, under SISU this will never happen. The council or the trust will not sell there share.
Face the facts while under SISU the club is going nowhere.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
Gotcha. Call me a cynic but I think given our current predicament it was probably impossible for Hoffman to find anyone that would take the gamble.
I'd still rather have seen us have another go with that initial investment of £30m or whatever it was going to be and the added assurance of having an amiable City fan on the board rather than the pompous cretins we currently have.
SydneySkyBlue
Member
I also think with Andy Thorn in charge and the way he is making the team gel it would have been a good time to do it.
Sky Blue Sheepy
New Member
The fact is, without SISU we'll go down. Go into admin we sell any saleable asset we have and a 10 point deduction on our hands and a threadbare squad probably not capable of helping us survive. Under SISU, that isn't going to happen. They're an investment company and aren't going to let go of their asset quite so easily and unless Hoffman actually offers money for the club, they aren't going to go; they'd be stupid if they did.
Admin works for some clubs - Pompey survived last year and are rebuilding for example. Other clubs aren't so lucky. Plymouth were above us in the table 3 years ago... bottom of league 2 now?
I'd rather stay with SISU and this league than end up like that thanks.
Admin works for some clubs - Pompey survived last year and are rebuilding for example. Other clubs aren't so lucky. Plymouth were above us in the table 3 years ago... bottom of league 2 now?
I'd rather stay with SISU and this league than end up like that thanks.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
I don't think most have blind faith, just desperation-and Hoffman was the only other option. That he no longer is (just now) is more Kens fault than his.
Joe Dhinsa really isn't a fair comparison. He was a small-fry self publicist. Hoffman is a much more serious player, a genuine passionate Sky Blue, and judging by the manner in which he takes time to speak to fans politely at games, a true gent and decent bloke to boot.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
FFS, is this guy for real?!
If you know your history then you will know that is the BR Era that has totally fecked this club up and it nothing to do with SISU.
Yep there "was good players coming in", players who we couldn't afford. As I mentioned in another thread we were actually paying out 111 percent of our total turnover. Maybe nice at the time, but all these down the line we're now paying a heavy price for it.
I tell you what. Why not do a similar thing to BR in your own life? Go out and buy a new house, a new car, have a cruise, buy an ipad, but put it all on credit in someone else's name - your brother for example Then when that person is bankrupt and can't pay back all the loans go and have a go at him and tell how crap he is at running his life. That is the position SISU are in.
The more I read shit like this the more I warm to SISU and what they have to put up with.
If you know your history then you will know that is the BR Era that has totally fecked this club up and it nothing to do with SISU.
Yep there "was good players coming in", players who we couldn't afford. As I mentioned in another thread we were actually paying out 111 percent of our total turnover. Maybe nice at the time, but all these down the line we're now paying a heavy price for it.
I tell you what. Why not do a similar thing to BR in your own life? Go out and buy a new house, a new car, have a cruise, buy an ipad, but put it all on credit in someone else's name - your brother for example Then when that person is bankrupt and can't pay back all the loans go and have a go at him and tell how crap he is at running his life. That is the position SISU are in.
The more I read shit like this the more I warm to SISU and what they have to put up with.
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Ok if SISU are the great people that are keeping the club afloat why are they causing so much anger in the stands we can't afford to buy a 350k player. We sold more than we brought in our squad is small mainly full of 18 year olds we ain't man u and we don't have the youth quality as them. All I seem to see off them is lies they don't want to help the club and it would be better if they left. Yes ok BR era we did lose lots of money but the word administration kicked in once we had gone down.
Glenn Storer
New Member
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Understand the frustration ....... think nearly everyone that is a CCFC fan understands that. Right now there is no credible alternative so short of putting the club into administration (which really would be a disaster for everyone) how do you expect them to leave?
Didnt buy one at £350k no but did at £400K. Sold Ben Turner the rest were out of contract, brought 3 players in. Seems to me that you think we have a right to top players simply because we are CCFC - think you need to come to terms with the fact that under any owner we are likely to get there is unlikely to be much money around. Reliance on our youth is going to be around for seasons to come. We do not have the money !!
Covstu
Well-Known Member
Yes like the people who wouldnt go when Marlon was around?? :thinking about::thinking about:
Covstu
Well-Known Member
Voice of reason at last!!! People are frustrated but we all must understand that we are struggling to keep this club afloat and no hoffman will sort this out unless he can magically balance the books and you are not going to be able to do this without buying the ground or getting to the premier league.
Comparing SISU to BR is pointless, BR had us when we were a half decent premier league team. He took advantage of this for his own benefit. SISU depite their piss poor communication have not been creaming the profits because the club is simply not generating anything!