'Anti-SISU brigade' (11 Viewers)

[Nick]

The judges at the JR and Higgs case said that the council have done nothing wrong ( in respect of those cases ). Does that make them members of the "anti SISU Brigade"?

Well no, it means they were only looking at 2 individual cases and were talking about legally rather than morally weren't they? Does that mean SISU did nothing wrong when moving us to Northampton as it wasn't breaking the law?

Haven't things happened since the JR also?

 

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[Astute]

The judges at the JR and Higgs case said that the council have done nothing wrong ( in respect of those cases ). Does that make them members of the "anti SISU Brigade"?

No. But if you mention them in a better light than SISU you are defending CCC or are a CCC lover and are against CCFC in some peoples eyes. But it counts differently if the same is done with SISU. Complete double standards in my eyes. It gets me going on some stupid debates on here sometimes.

 

[Nick]

No. But if you mention them in a better light than SISU you are defending CCC or are a CCC lover and are against CCFC in some peoples eyes. But it counts differently if the same is done with SISU. Complete double standards in my eyes. It gets me going on some stupid debates on here sometimes.

As I said, defending them is quite simple isn't it? It is saying they have done nothing wrong, being proud of them isn't it?

Saying person x is a dickhead, doesn't mean you love person Y.

 

[martcov]

Well no, it means they were only looking at 2 individual cases and were talking about legally rather than morally weren't they? Does that mean SISU did nothing wrong when moving us to Northampton as it wasn't breaking the law?

Imo the move was wrong because the tactic was doomed to failure and didn't take into Account the damage to the "Goodwill" of the business and the working relationship with ACL / CCC. If it was a sensible move we would have accepted it. Nothing to do with morals - just plain stupid.

 

[Astute]

As I said, defending them is quite simple isn't it? It is saying they have done nothing wrong, being proud of them isn't it?

Saying person x is a dickhead, doesn't mean you love person Y.

So why is it different rules for someone doing the same with CCC?

 

[Evo1883]

There are a few people i currently hate for the demise of ccfc , and it stems way further back than 2007.

 

[Nick]

So why is it different rules for someone doing the same with CCC?

It isn't is it? If somebody says that Tim Fisher is a dickhead it doesn't mean they love or defend CCC. Posting how proud they are of CCC, posting about how they have done nothing at all wrong, posting that they shouldn't have to take any blame for anything at all that has ever happened is defending them.

 

[Astute]

Somebody attacking SISU isn't defending CCC. Somebody saying "Tim Fisher is a wanker" isn't defending CCC.

Somebody defending CCC is saying how proud they are of them, how they have done nothing wrong etc etc.

I have been called a CCC lover or told that I prefer CCC to CCFC countless times. I have never said I am proud of them or that they have done nothing wrong. Where were you to defend me on any time this happened?

 

[Nick]

Imo the move was wrong because the tactic was doomed to failure and didn't take into Account the damage to the "Goodwill" of the business and the working relationship with ACL / CCC. If it was a sensible move we would have accepted it. Nothing to do with morals - just plain stupid.

But it was legal wasn't it? It didn't break the rules did it and it was allowed?

 

[Nick]

I have been called a CCC lover or told that I prefer CCC to CCFC countless times. I have never said I am proud of them or that they have done nothing wrong. Where were you to defend me on any time this happened?

Probably the same place you were to defend me when people come out with shit about me working for SISU or being paid off.

I do also remember saying fair play about the time you drove miles in Italy to watch us pre season which sort of says to me you aren't on here as a "plant" or something.

 

[skybluetony176]

Somebody attacking SISU isn't defending CCC. Somebody saying "Tim Fisher is a wanker" isn't defending CCC.

Somebody defending CCC is saying how proud they are of them, how they have done nothing wrong etc etc.

So the judge got it wrong then? People of Coventry shouldn't be proud of their local authority for defending themselves against a court case that got laughed out of court and refused the right of appeal and subsequently lost the first round of the right to have a right to appeal which is now being appealed? That's not defending them. That's pointing out that they've done exactly what they should have done and what should be expected of them.

Perhaps you think that the council should have rolled over at the sight of the first solicitors letter and come to an out of courts settlement on a case that they were clearly not going to lose but I would say that would be something not to be proud of.

 

[Nick]

So the judge got it wrong then? People of Coventry shouldn't be proud of their local authority for defending themselves against a court case that got laughed out of court and refused the right of appeal and subsequently lost the first round of the right to have a right to appeal which is now being appealed? That's not defending them. That's pointing out that they've done exactly what they should have done and what should be expected of them.

Perhaps you think that the council should have rolled over at the sight of the first solicitors letter and come to an out of courts settlement on a case that they were clearly not going to lose but I would say that would be something not to be proud of.

Where did I say the judge got it wrong? Can you point it out?

Can you link me to the judge's comments on everything throughout the whole saga with CCFC including the original move, wasps etc rather than just individual situations?

 

[Astute]

Probably the same place you were to defend me when people come out with shit about me working for SISU or being paid off.

I do also remember saying fair play about the time you drove miles in Italy to watch us pre season which sort of says to me you aren't on here as a "plant" or something.

I have defended you in the past when that sort of BS was said Nick. But not when it was said in jest though as it was sometimes. I defend anyone......even SISU.....when someone comes out with BS. But the same people I have defended in the past call me a CCC lover. Not double standards is it?

 

[Astute]

Where did I say the judge got it wrong? Can you point it out?

Can you link me to the judge's comments on everything throughout the whole saga with CCFC including the original move, wasps etc rather than just individual situations?

That is like taking a Les Reid statement and taking one or two lines from it saying it could be true when we know most of it is BS for sure.

 

[Nick]

I have defended you in the past when that sort of BS was said Nick. But not when it was said in jest though as it was sometimes. I defend anyone......even SISU.....when someone comes out with BS. But the same people I have defended in the past call me a CCC lover. Not double standards is it?

I have seen you post things about CCC (Wasps if I remember was one of them). I think Wasps did sort of make a difference with "views" as such with some posters, ChiefDave and Duffer could have been seen as "ccc lovers" until then. If that makes sense? There are people who will say everybody is a dickhead and that so and so is a dickhead for doing this, so and so is a knob for doing this, bill is a penis for doing this rather than saying "it is all Bill's fault, it was just Bill, all Bill"

 

[skybluetony176]

Where did I say the judge got it wrong? Can you point it out?

Can you link me to the judge's comments on everything throughout the whole saga with CCFC including the original move, wasps etc rather than just individual situations?

But you think that people shouldn't be proud of CCC for taking on SISU in the court's and winning instead of rolling over and having their tummy tickled by SISU. That's the only scenario I can remember when people have said on here that they are proud of CCC unless you can link me to where someone has said something different?

 

[Nick]

That is like taking a Les Reid statement and taking one or two lines from it saying it could be true when we know most of it is BS for sure.

That's what I mean, using a judge's comment about 1 incident and about the law doesn't mean that everything that person ever does can use that line does it?

 

[Nick]

But you think that people shouldn't be proud of CCC for taking on SISU in the court's and winning instead of rolling over and having their tummy tickled by SISU. That's the only scenario I can remember when people have said on here that they are proud of CCC unless you can link me to where someone has said something different?

As well as people saying that CCC are not to blame for anything that has ever happened and that it is ALL CCFC / SISU?

It also shows something when we win 2 games and nobody gives a shit, yet there is a council / SISU / stadium thread and people are over it like a tramp on chips.

Why can people not be proud of any of the fuckers and think they are all as bad as each other (used as phrase before people get into percentages) and quite clearly think they are all in it for themselves and what they can milk out of the club?

 

[martcov]

But it was legal wasn't it? It didn't break the rules did it and it was allowed?

Yes. For clarity: I have never said the move was illegal. I have never said that I hate SISU or that I am proud of CCC. I have said that it is incredible that CCC which includes City supporters, have been so pissed off with SISU's behaviour, and been put in an unenviable Position by TF's postulating, that they have had to sell at favourable conditions to someone from outside. Should never have even got that far. Yes, I blame SISU for their tactics which brought us to this Point and am fully aware of how councils work ( have had my own problems with councils - even CCC ). Total confrontation was not the best way to get what you want from CCC.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

and am fully aware of how councils work ( have had my own problems with councils - even CCC ).

Ah, now there are umpteen threads one could run on that...

Total confrontation was not the best way to get what you want from CCC.

And yes, agreed. it then becomes political, it then becomes a challenge. You then risk being subject to the media assault.

However... I still find it astonishing that no coherent call for a proper mediation process was ever made. If two parties stop talking, it's impossible to say it's always one person's fault. If someone feels they have to confront, there must be a reason too. (awaits binary oppositions to kick in in response to this)

And just a bit of talking, in a structured setting, could have been so much more productive.

 

[martcov]

Ah, now there are umpteen threads one could run on that...



And yes, agreed. it then becomes political, it then becomes a challenge. You then risk being subject to the media assault.

However... I still find it astonishing that no coherent call for a proper mediation process was ever made. If two parties stop talking, it's impossible to say it's always one person's fault. If someone feels they have to confront, there must be a reason too. (awaits binary oppositions to kick in in response to this)

And just a bit of talking, in a structured setting, could have been so much more productive.

In my last dispute with a council (Hamburg ) I went with my lawyer and Met the council officials with the City lawyers. Put the facts on the table, said I want to continue working with them and asked how we could continue. We could have gone to war through the courts, but we settled on a compromise. But SISU spout off about Battering people in court, endless litigation, throw keys on the desk etc etc. the same again with SP. Why has it started with threats of legal action ( this time not from SISU )? Can They just not arrang a meeting before resorting to legal threats? ( not blaming SISU in this case ))

 

[wingy]

Ah, now there are umpteen threads one could run on that...



And yes, agreed. it then becomes political, it then becomes a challenge. You then risk being subject to the media assault.

However... I still find it astonishing that no coherent call for a proper mediation process was ever made. If two parties stop talking, it's impossible to say it's always one person's fault. If someone feels they have to confront, there must be a reason too. (awaits binary oppositions to kick in in response to this)

And just a bit of talking, in a structured setting, could have been so much more productive.

There were, but not from either party until It was too late IIRC
Independent parties were suggesting It while It wad about the rent, but was It ever really about the rent?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

There were, but not from either party until It was too late IIRC
Independent parties were suggesting It while It wad about the rent, but was It ever really about the rent?

Interestingly of course, in the Trust's Q&A mediation was flat out refused by one party...

Oh, and it's never too late to talk!

 

[skybluetony176]

As well as people saying that CCC are not to blame for anything that has ever happened and that it is ALL CCFC / SISU?

It also shows something when we win 2 games and nobody gives a shit, yet there is a council / SISU / stadium thread and people are over it like a tramp on chips.

Why can people not be proud of any of the fuckers and think they are all as bad as each other (used as phrase before people get into percentages) and quite clearly think they are all in it for themselves and what they can milk out of the club?

Whose ever said that CCC are blameless? Do you have a link?

I don't see why you think people shouldn't be proud of their local authority for fighting a court case they were never going to lose? Again, unless you have a link to where people have said this in another context that doesn't apply to the court case?

 

[chiefdave]

There are a few people i currently hate for the demise of ccfc , and it stems way further back than 2007.

For me it all started going downhill when we got rid of Sillett and in came Butcher, followed by Gould. And of course the boardroom coup that led to Richardson ousting Poynton.

Of course we had some good years with some decent players but they were players we couldn't afford an it seems there were all sorts of strange loans and player ownership schemes being run through the club. We were living on borrowed time and it was just a matter of when it was all going to come crashing down.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

For me it all started going downhill when we got rid of Sillett and in came Butcher, followed by Gould. And of course the boardroom coup that led to Richardson ousting Poynton.

Poynton was replaced by Peter Robins.

Richardson came on board later. And, indeed, early on he was pretty much more of the same - Gould in fact quit on principle because he claimed Ndlovu was going to be sold from beneath him.

It was when Robinson took more of an active role things went proper pear-shaped... and the way the pair of them conspired to get the shares off Derrick Robins was pretty spineless, really.

 

[Godiva]

There were, but not from either party until It was too late IIRC
Independent parties were suggesting It while It wad about the rent, but was It ever really about the rent?

I think not - to me the whole rent issue was a necessary story line to support the claim that the club was on the brink of extension. This way the ACL and the Yorkshire Bank mortgage was at risk.
The main goal (as I see it) was to have YB to take a significant hit on the loan and thus 'pay for' ccfc taking over Higgs shares.
Modern bank robbery where nobody goes to jail.

 

[Moff]

Jez, four or five pages of arguements over the same subject just becuase Ginetta (under his new userbname) the former SISU superfan decides to sycophantically rebump his post.

 

[Astute]

It also shows something when we win 2 games and nobody gives a shit, yet there is a council / SISU / stadium thread and people are over it like a tramp on chips.

So are you questioning why people are commenting on this thread whilst making more posts on it than anyone else? :thinking about:

 

[Nick]

Whose ever said that CCC are blameless? Do you have a link?

OK, leave that with me until I am at my computer and I can use the search Free to hammer with PM's to remind me as I genuinely do forget by the time I get there.

 

[Nick]

So are you questioning why people are commenting on this thread whilst making more posts on it than anyone else? :thinking about:

I was also posting when we won, when we lost, when we had a stadium, when we didn't. I am sad like that!

 

[Grendel]

Some of us take boycotting seriously.

It seems you are boycotting your real username - why? Because everyone takes the piss out of you when you post with it? How's Uncle Ray these days? Still making a sticky mess on your sofa?

 

[Astute]

I was also posting when we won, when we lost, when we had a stadium, when we didn't. I am sad like that!

I have never said CCC were innocent of all charges. I post in here when we win, lose or draw. I posted in here when we had a stadium. Can you find another stick to beat me with please?

I also don't question you in any way on threads you join in on. Well that was until now when you brought the subject up.

 

[Nick]

I have never said CCC were innocent of all charges. I post in here when we win, lose or draw. I posted in here when we had a stadium. Can you find another stick to beat me with please?

I also don't question you in any way on threads you join in on. Well that was until now when you brought the subject up.

Where have I said you don't or tried to "beat" you?

 

[Grendel]

I have never said CCC were innocent of all charges. I post in here when we win, lose or draw. I posted in here when we had a stadium. Can you find another stick to beat me with please?

I also don't question you in any way on threads you join in on. Well that was until now when you brought the subject up.

We haven't had a stadium since 2000 - you weren't posting then.