Sisu make official complaint over Coventry councillors' conduct (14 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

A nice idea but from what I have been told the idea of moving out only came about as ACL refused to come to the table to negotiate a better deal for the club.

When I was told this I went back and looked carefully at PWKH's comments on here and he very pointedly always uses the phrase 'no formal discussions took place', of course at the time we all, myself included, lapped that up as evidence against SISU. With hindsight it seems it was a very deliberate phrasing, the implication being discussions were requested but didn't occur.

I don't see how you gain that implication from those words myself.

PUSB

 

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[Intheknow]

A ruling in favour of SISU would almost certainly lead to a claim for compensation.

it wouldn't. What loss did SISU suffer by the Council making a loan?

 

[Chipfat]

I dont understand what looking back at what was said gets us, it makes no difference to the outcome.. Sisu have to do 1 of 3 things, sell, build or pay rent and try to compete on the field to get higher value of what they have.. At this moment any action in courts, threats or spin do not shout out they are really pushing for the future, says more about looking at the past..

FAns need to move on,, this sort of topic always leads to this sort of revolving she said, he said, or they did this... It really changes nothing,, we need Sisu to change and push us forward,, if they are really seeing a long term future in this club..

 

[SkyblueBazza]

There is no claim for compensation. It is not that type of court action.

Compensation based upon hearsay wouldn't pay much. They appear simply to be trying to prove a point. Once (IF) proven they would seek enormous compensation.

PUSB

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

it wouldn't. What loss did SISU suffer by the Council making a loan?

They will probably try and claim loss of earnings for the year at Sixfields, by claiming the council forced them out of the Ricoh. I know that was what was being talked about before.

 

[chiefdave]

it wouldn't. What loss did SISU suffer by the Council making a loan?

Look at the top right of your screen, there's a search bar. Use it as the issue of compensation and the validity of a SISU claim should there be a ruling in their favour has been discussed in detail more than once.

 

[italiahorse]

it wouldn't. What loss did SISU suffer by the Council making a loan?

Was it part of the hostile takeover of the club TF is on about ?
I've forgot ..... What was that about ?

 

[skybluetony176]

Its been discussed often on here the limited powers the judge in the JR actually has and that a victory for SISU would lead to a second case where they make an application for compensation.

If anything I would say the sale of ACL to Wasps has increased the amount they might try and claim. Previously they could only really claim losses for the year at Sixfields, now they could be looking at a lot more. Of course they have the slight problem of needing to win the JR first.

Why do you think that the sale to Wasps would increase the amount?

 

[chiefdave]

I don't see how you gain that implication from those words myself.

Because its not a natural phrase. If someone asked if there had ever been a request to review the rent its a yes or no question. The repeated use of an unnatural phrase which is ambiguous implies to me that something is being hidden.

 

[Intheknow]

If SISU had a compensatory claim they would have have made it by now I suspect. Don't forget the financial landscape didn't change, merely the provider of the facility.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Joy to legal advisers "Is it worth another go?"

Legal adviser to Joy "Yes, and if we lose we have plan x, y and z to follow on with"

Joy to legal adviser "OK, in for a penny, in for a pound"

Legal adviser to Travel agent "upgrade the Mauritius holiday from a fortnight to a month" :facepalm:

 

[Intheknow]

Look at the top right of your screen, there's a search bar. Use it as the issue of compensation and the validity of a SISU claim should there be a ruling in their favour has been discussed in detail more than once.

Please save me the time and let me know the basis of a claim for compensation?

 

[shmmeee]

It's been personal for a while, getting pretty embarrassing now.

Just move the club on FFS.

 

[Monners]

Another dull day in Dullsville.
Still, TM signs tomorrow - onwards and upwards :claping hands:

 

[James Smith]

You have to wonder where we'd be if from day one they'd put the amount of effort they put into court cases into getting the club moving in the right direction.

Reuniting the club with the stadium should have been a priority, what was Onye doing whilst he was here?

 

[duffer]

Coincidence that the complaint is made on the day the the main claim under the judicial review collapses?

Technically, I think the main claim is that the loan consituted illegal state aid. One of the remedies, should that be found to be true, was that the loan should be repaid by Wasps to CCC.

That remedy is now off the table, but the claim itself remains. I'm honestly not sure if the point of the JR is ultimately to seek compensation, or if it is to show how badly SISU feel they have been treated by CCC, or both.

I'd certainly like all of the dealings of CCC with regards to ACL and Wasps put under the spotlight a bit more though, so I've got no issue with either the JR or the complaint to the LGO. Of the two, I suspect that the LGO complaint will be resolved the fastest and could make for some interesting reading. I'm not saying it's going to be successful by the way, I only know what's in the public domain, the same as everyone else here - but the council will have to respond to it.

Regardless, let's get it all out there and we can judge for ourselves whether the conduct of the council and individual councillors has been acceptable.

As for coincidence, I find it interesting that Wasps have acted so quickly to remove the obvious risk posed by SISU's JR. Do they know something we don't?

 

[hutch1972]

Reuniting the club with the stadium should have been a priority, what was Onye doing whilst he was here?

I'm quite sure had it been available on the terms it was sold for they would of.
ccc were ripping this club off for as long as possible, which is confirmed by the huge drop in rent after they returned.
sisu will by all accounts lose the Jr but there is nothing i would like more than to see Lucas and Mutton answering searching questions on their conduct.

 

[Grendel]

Italia, forget whether its true or not just say it is. Please.

It is - so he won't.

 

[skybluetony176]

They will probably try and claim loss of earnings for the year at Sixfields, by claiming the council forced them out of the Ricoh. I know that was what was being talked about before.

Doesn't letting them finish the season of the rent strike and then offering repeatedly lower offers to first stay and then return with them ultimately returning dismiss a claim that they were forced out? Especially as they refused to respond to those offers?

 

[skybluetony176]

It is - so he won't.

He's already said he's made money of Wasps so why are you posting. No posts for 30days please.

 

[Moff]

If SISU had a compensatory claim they would have have made it by now I suspect. Don't forget the financial landscape didn't change, merely the provider of the facility.

You clearly arent in the know about SISU are you. Where theres a mere whiff of blame there will be a claim. Dont presume just because they havent doesnt mean they wont.

 

[olderskyblue]

Because its not a natural phrase. If someone asked if there had ever been a request to review the rent its a yes or no question. The repeated use of an unnatural phrase which is ambiguous implies to me that something is being hidden.

I think it implies whatever it is you want it to imply chief. It probably implies something completely different to people with a different agenda.....

 

[fernandopartridge]

I am not bothered by this, it isn't a court case, it doesn't cost anything and it scrutinises the conduct of public officials. I can't remember SISU behaving as unprofessionally as that idiot Mutton.

 

[stupot07]

I'm probably a little naive but if Sisu showed ACL the true financial position of the club and where it was leading it could be scrutinised and sensible sliding scale of rentals could be worked on . Not submitting accounts could appear to be hiding them.

ACL knew full well what our account looked like, the fact we'd virtually gone to the wall on relegation, the fact we had to sell our share in ACL, the fact that sisu had to step in the first place, and it was a known fact we were losing £6-7m pa under sisu just to tread water int be championship, that debt was mounting, that we were having to sell our best players to help fund losses, that crowds and therefore income was dwindling, and they knew that relegation would lead to c£5m reduction of income. Let's not use late submission of accounts as an excuse for ACL not wanting to lower rent.




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[fernandopartridge]

The repayment of the Wasps loan early could strengthen the SISU case. If Wasps could raise £35m then why didn't they do it at the outset?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Technically, I think the main claim is that the loan consituted illegal state aid. One of the remedies, should that be found to be true, was that the loan should be repaid by Wasps to CCC.

That remedy is now off the table, but the claim itself remains. I'm honestly not sure if the point of the JR is ultimately to seek compensation, or if it is to show how badly SISU feel they have been treated by CCC, or both.

I'd certainly like all of the dealings of CCC with regards to ACL and Wasps put under the spotlight a bit more though, so I've got no issue with either the JR or the complaint to the LGO. Of the two, I suspect that the LGO complaint will be resolved the fastest and could make for some interesting reading. I'm not saying it's going to be successful by the way, I only know what's in the public domain, the same as everyone else here - but the council will have to respond to it.

Regardless, let's get it all out there and we can judge for ourselves whether the conduct of the council and individual councillors has been acceptable.

As for coincidence, I find it interesting that Wasps have acted so quickly to remove the obvious risk posed by SISU's JR. Do they know something we don't?

No I think they are just better business people shame we never had someone like them at the helm instead of the joke we have at the moment.

 

[Intheknow]

Technically, I think the main claim is that the loan consituted illegal state aid. One of the remedies, should that be found to be true, was that the loan should be repaid by Wasps to CCC.

That remedy is now off the table, but the claim itself remains. I'm honestly not sure if the point of the JR is ultimately to seek compensation, or if it is to show how badly SISU feel they have been treated by CCC, or both.

I'd certainly like all of the dealings of CCC with regards to ACL and Wasps put under the spotlight a bit more though, so I've got no issue with either the JR or the complaint to the LGO. Of the two, I suspect that the LGO complaint will be resolved the fastest and could make for some interesting reading. I'm not saying it's going to be successful by the way, I only know what's in the public domain, the same as everyone else here - but the council will have to respond to it.

Regardless, let's get it all out there and we can judge for ourselves whether the conduct of the council and individual councillors has been acceptable.

As for coincidence, I find it interesting that Wasps have acted so quickly to remove the obvious risk posed by SISU's JR. Do they know something we don't?

there is only one relief sought and able to be sought re the loan, repayment. No other remedy is sought or claimed. With the repayment that relief falls away.

the second claim was that Wasps got given a 250 year lease for nothing. That has also now been blown out of the water.

JR redundant. So let's complain to LGO. And then, SISU will stamp its foot.

 

[stupot07]

there is only one relief sought and able to be sought re the loan, repayment. No other remedy is sought or claimed. With the repayment that relief falls away.

the second claim was that Wasps got given a 250 year lease for nothing. That has also now been blown out of the water.

JR redundant. So let's complain to LGO. And then, SISU will stamp its foot.

Yay. Ccfc hedgefund 0 - 2 wasps hedgefund


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[letsallsingtogether]

Yay. Ccfc hedgefund 0 - 2 wasps hedgefund


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Intheknow]

Yay. Ccfc hedgefund 0 - 2 wasps hedgefund


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

the rubbish about the Wasps hedge fund has been shown to be exactly that. You need to aim your arrows elsewhere.

 

[Paxman II]

I don't have a problem with this. SISU can do what they want in their back office so long as it does not interfere with the on-going operations of the football club. Too many on here are relating everything SISU as an act brought about by CCFC to it's determent.

 

[skybluetony176]

The repayment of the Wasps loan early could strengthen the SISU case. If Wasps could raise £35m then why didn't they do it at the outset?

Isn't a JR up to a certain point in time? What happened after the Wasps deal was done is surely irrelevant if JR 2, J Harder get's the go ahead it's supposed to be about the takeover. The fact that they raised revenue after this point and paid off the loan early is surely about as relevant as whether they qualified for Europe or not?

 

[James Smith]

I'm quite sure had it been available on the terms it was sold for they would of.
ccc were ripping this club off for as long as possible, which is confirmed by the huge drop in rent after they returned.
sisu will by all accounts lose the Jr but there is nothing i would like more than to see Lucas and Mutton answering searching questions on their conduct.

As I understand it one of the reasons that prevented Sisu from bidding was the IEC structure. When Sisu came in that structure didn't exist, as far as I know ACL was a much simpler company back then and would have been easier to dismantle if that's what they wanted to do (bring in AEG etc.). One of the reasons I was very keen on them coming in was they had the money to buy our half of ACL back which the last lot didn't. Once we had half we would have had a foot in the door and could have prevented the council from selling our home. Tim (and Joy) have been saying for some time that we need all the stadium income for the club and I don't dispute that. However thanks to at least one court case we know what efforts went into acquiring half of the Ricoh late into game - pun not intended, (we may have had more of the matchday revenue in Northampton but with diminished gates) and we're still no closer to the New Stadium than at the fans forum almost two years ago.

I said that if the (two faced) council got someone else in or someone to buy ACL we'd either have to hope Joy would build the mythical 'New Stadium' or we'd be homeless. I was told that there was no chance that they'd get a new tenant or anyone to buy ACL. Admittedly we didn't know that the (hypocritical) council were going to offer a longer leasehold for any buyer of ACL, but it still means that we're homeless.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Isn't a JR up to a certain point in time? What happened after the Wasps deal was done is surely irrelevant if JR 2, J Harder get's the go ahead it's supposed to be about the takeover. The fact that they raised revenue after this point and paid off the loan early is surely about as relevant as whether they qualified for Europe or not?

Yes perhaps JR2 if that happens. All seems a bit rushed.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Doesn't letting them finish the season of the rent strike and then offering repeatedly lower offers to first stay and then return with them ultimately returning dismiss a claim that they were forced out? Especially as they refused to respond to those offers?

Probably yes, although I'm not really counting the offers after we had left as it's a little too late then. I'm just thinking what argument SISU would put forward.