Sisu make official complaint over Coventry councillors' conduct (9 Viewers)

[oldskyblue58]

Again from the LGO site

Top tips for making a complaint


Making a complaint can be difficult, time consuming and stressful. But these tips may help to make the process easier both for you and for the person dealing with your complaint.

Don’t delay
Complain to the council or care provider as soon as possible after the event. It is much easier to remember all the details. There may be a time limit in which your complaint must be lodged.
If you are unhappy with the reply, you may have the opportunity to take your complaint to a second stage; again, do so as soon as possible and explain why you are not satisfied with the first reply.

Make checks
When you have decided to complain, make sure you are complaining to the right organisation and the right department within that organisation. Usually, the head of the department that you are complaining about is a good person to complain to.

Tell them it’s a complaint
Tell them straight away this is a complaint, and you want it put through the complaints procedure. Ask for details of the complaints procedure and find out who will be handling your complaint.

Put it in writing
It is helpful to put your complaint in writing if you can. If this isn't something you feel comfortable doing, you could ask a friend, carer, family member or an organisation like Citizens Advice to help you. Make sure to write ‘complaint’ at the top of your letter or email, so there can be no doubt.

Be clear and brief
Cover all the relevant points, but be as brief as you can. Avoid writing long letters or emails – you may feel you need to write in great detail but in most cases this is not necessary.
Make it easy to read by using numbered lists and headings to highlight the important issues.
Give your contact telephone and email details, as well as your address. Then, if the person dealing with the complaint needs more information, he or she can contact you and ask.

Provide evidence
Send copies of relevant documents – but only those that will help the complaint officer understand your complaint or provide evidence to support it. Make sure you keep copies yourself - you may want to keep any original documents and send copies of these with your complaint.
Keep notes of any telephone calls about the complaint, including the name of the person you spoke to. This may be important later.

Check it through
Get family or friends to read your complaint before you send it – if they can’t understand it then the person you send it to is likely to struggle too.

Be clear about what you want
Explain clearly what you hope to achieve by complaining. But be realistic: your aims need to be fair and proportionate to the problems you have had.

Be polite
Whether writing or speaking to a complaint officer, try to remain polite and calm.
Be assertive, not aggressive. Your experience of making a complaint is likely to be more productive if you calmly discuss the issues with the complaint officer – getting angry tends not to lead to a better outcome and just makes the complaint process unpleasant for everyone.

Respond appropriately
Respond appropriately if asked to do so by the complaint officer; read any letters and documents that are sent to you. If for some reason you cannot reply within the stated timescale, such as if you are unwell or away on holiday, tell them why and ask for more time.

Be patient
It may take some time for your complaint to be considered. Don’t be afraid to chase politely if nothing seems to be happening to progress matters.

Some decisions and remedies are here http://www.lgo.org.uk/decisions/other-categories/

 

---

[Noggin]

Quantified like that, then yes I see your point, and totally agree.

I still think it is suprising, and worrying the amount of people who have the means to plan for retirement but dont.

Me too especially with how attractive putting money in a pension can be, most people aren't fully informed though and don't realise just how much harder it is to save for retirement if you start in your 40's instead if your 20's. It's very easy to put things off that won't affect you for 40+ years though, I'm not being critical of them I think we are all guilty of that kind of thing, I just want to encourage people to get started and to think when you get that 3% payrise do I really need it? or can I increase my pension contribution by that instead.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Me too especially with how attractive putting money in a pension can be, most people aren't fully informed though and don't realise just how much harder it is to save for retirement if you start in your 40's instead if your 20's. It's very easy to put things off that won't affect you for 40+ years though, I'm not being critical of them I think we are all guilty of that kind of thing, I just want to encourage people to get started and to think when you get that 3% payrise do I really need it? or can I increase my pension contribution by that instead.

Lots of people under 30 are resigned to working until their 70s. What's the point in contributing to a pension you won't benefit from is the prevailing attitude. (though the recent changes to allow a lump sum instead of an annuity change things a bit).

 

[Godiva]

Be polite
When responding to another post, try to remain polite and calm.
Be assertive, not aggressive. Your experience of making a point is likely to be more productive if you calmly discuss the issues – getting angry tends not to lead to a better outcome and just makes the thread unpleasant for everyone.

Respond appropriately
Respond appropriately; read any posts and links. If for some reason you cannot come up with reasonable reply just leave the thread.

Slightly edited. Should be made sticky here as posting tips.

 

[Astute]

Me too especially with how attractive putting money in a pension can be, most people aren't fully informed though and don't realise just how much harder it is to save for retirement if you start in your 40's instead if your 20's. It's very easy to put things off that won't affect you for 40+ years though, I'm not being critical of them I think we are all guilty of that kind of thing, I just want to encourage people to get started and to think when you get that 3% payrise do I really need it? or can I increase my pension contribution by that instead.

I started my pension in my 20's. I am now in my 40's. It has a present value of just over 14k a year. If I hadn't started one yet I wouldn't be able to get what I have now as the final salary closed to new starters about 15 years ago. But it also lets me retire early. I have 12 years and 11 months to go

One question though. What has investing for the future got to do with CCFC?

 

[Noggin]

Lots of people under 30 are resigned to working until their 70s. What's the point in contributing to a pension you won't benefit from is the prevailing attitude. (though the recent changes to allow a lump sum instead of an annuity change things a bit).

You will be able to take your works pension at 55 (well it might be a bit higher by then) you don't have to wait untill state pension age. Properly saving for your future is exactly what will save you from having to work untill 70.

 

[Ian1779]

If this is just a case of SISU making a complaint then that is the end of their involvement then I can't see what the issue is. They do however have far more pertinent things to focus on like a manager and sorting out this supposed stadium.

CCC do need to be scrutinised in regards to their actions. If the Wasps bond issue was so oversubscribed as it is being made out, why did CCC accept such a knockdown price for such a long lease? Why did they need to provide/assist with finance in any way if Wasps could pretty much raise money at will as it would appear?

If nothing else - the contradictions and questionable statements from them should be looked at in more detail.

 

[torchomatic]

Of course not. But the double standards on here mean that Councillor's conduct doesn't have to be.

And of course Sisu's conduct has been exemplary hasn't it.

 

[Astute]

1, CCC do need to be scrutinised in regards to their actions.

2, If the Wasps bond issue was so oversubscribed as it is being made out, why did CCC accept such a knockdown price for such a long lease?

3, Why did they need to provide/assist with finance in any way if Wasps could pretty much raise money at will as it would appear?

If nothing else - the contradictions and questionable statements from them should be looked at in more detail.

1, Yes. They serve the public and use our money to benefit us so should answer to their actions.

2, SISU made the arena into a money losing project through their actions. They wouldn't negotiate as they wanted more pressure put onto CCC. Wasps gave them a way out. SISU even said that the arena was worthless. Wasps have now paid about 20m to take over the arena. A lot more than Joy was willing to invest.

3, The loan was already in place before Wasps took the arena over. Wasps agreed a shorter term than the one in place. And they have now paid it off.

 

[Noggin]

I started my pension in my 20's. I am now in my 40's. It has a present value of just over 14k a year. If I hadn't started one yet I wouldn't be able to get what I have now as the final salary closed to new starters about 15 years ago. But it also lets me retire early. I have 12 years and 11 months to go

One question though. What has investing for the future got to do with CCFC?

That's great mate

Nothing to do with CCFC but then neither really is sisu telling tales on the council followed by 80 pages of us shouting the same old stuff at one another, might as well have something good come from it

 

[duffer]

You will be able to take your works pension at 55 (well it might be a bit higher by then) you don't have to wait untill state pension age. Properly saving for your future is exactly what will save you from having to work untill 70.

Ah, my pension plan involves me working until I'm 90. Then I can afford to retire and go part-time.

(This would be a lot funnier if it wasn't true).

 

[Astute]

Of course not. But the double standards on here mean that Councillor's conduct doesn't have to be.

Has anyone said as you say? If they have they need to wake up and take a reality check.

 

[torchomatic]

Losing £10M in interest at a stroke.

And they have now paid it off.

 

[Astute]

Losing £10M in interest at a stroke.

You are really funny at times Torch

On post 148 you said about double standards. Agreed?

When the loan was made you mentioned a fair few times about the risk to the tax payer on money loaned to ACL. Now the loan has been repaid you mention about the loss of interest payments as the loan has been repaid and there no longer is a risk to the tax payer. But you don't mention that it is good for the tax payer as they are no longer at risk :slap:

 

[torchomatic]

It's the same with you regarding the "poor orphans", I guess.

You are really funny at times Torch

On post 148 you said about double standards. Agreed?

When the loan was made you mentioned a fair few times about the risk to the tax payer on money loaned to ACL. Now the loan has been repaid you mention about the loss of interest payments as the loan has been repaid and there no longer is a risk to the tax payer. But you don't mention that it is good for the tax payer as they are no longer at risk :slap:

 

[Astute]

It's the same with you regarding the "poor orphans", I guess.

What have I said about poor orphans then? And as you know I am also fully against the Wasps bullshit. Looks like you are trying to say that I have said about poor orphans losing out and then welcomed Wasps to Coventry.

 

[fernandopartridge]

You are really funny at times Torch

On post 148 you said about double standards. Agreed?

When the loan was made you mentioned a fair few times about the risk to the tax payer on money loaned to ACL. Now the loan has been repaid you mention about the loss of interest payments as the loan has been repaid and there no longer is a risk to the tax payer. But you don't mention that it is good for the tax payer as they are no longer at risk :slap:

The mitigation of the risk was the amount the council would receive back over the life of the loan. They're now in a position where they've got the capital back + some interest but their favoured leaseholder has mortgages its lease to unknown bondholders to the tune of £35m.

That said, no guarantee to investors that the price they've paid for the bond will hold. Could Wasps in theory buy back the bonds at a reduced rate at a point in the future? What hapens at the end of the 7 year period. If you took out a £2k bond do you get the full £2k back or do you get the current market value at that time?

 

[torchomatic]

Actually, when they made the loan didn't they make a big song and dance that they couldn't use the money for "capital projects" anyway? Yet, the loan gets paid back and our Simon says it CAN be used for other stuff. So, which is it? More Council bullshit? Or more CT bullshit?

You are really funny at times Torch

On post 148 you said about double standards. Agreed?

When the loan was made you mentioned a fair few times about the risk to the tax payer on money loaned to ACL. Now the loan has been repaid you mention about the loss of interest payments as the loan has been repaid and there no longer is a risk to the tax payer. But you don't mention that it is good for the tax payer as they are no longer at risk :slap:

 

[covcity4life]

Wouldn't disagree with that. I just want to know how we get justice for all the stuff that has been done wrong by the clubs owners? Or are they allowed to get of the hook?

sisu have been idiotic, but it was all to get ground cheap, if it had worked they would be heroes up there with jimmy hill!

council sold ground to wasps out of spite, they lied that it wasnt loss making. they screwed US over more, even if sisu had it coming possibly, the people of this city didnt.

 

[Astute]

The mitigation of the risk was the amount the council would receive back over the life of the loan. They're now in a position where they've got the capital back + some interest but their favoured leaseholder has mortgages its lease to unknown bondholders to the tune of £35m.

That said, no guarantee to investors that the price they've paid for the bond will hold. Could Wasps in theory buy back the bonds at a reduced rate at a point in the future? What hapens at the end of the 7 year period. If you took out a £2k bond do you get the full £2k back or do you get the current market value at that time?

The bond holders have taken a gamble. But not a massive gamble. They are due to get nearly 50% of their investment back in interest in the next 7 years. And to be truthful I don't care if they get their money back or not. I actually hope they lose all their investment as it means there is a very good chance of CCFC getting the arena.

 

[Astute]

It came from reserves. Reserves that never went anywhere near zero. So never made any difference.

 

[Noggin]

Ah, my pension plan involves me working until I'm 90. Then I can afford to retire and go part-time.

(This would be a lot funnier if it wasn't true).

I don't know your situation but alot of people who don't think they can save can do.

Cashback sites + moving your gas/electric/skytv/broadband/house insurance/car insurance/mobile phone contract can easily save you a grand a year. put that into a works pension it's increased to £1200 because of the 20% tax saving, then your employer matches it, now it's £2400 a year, that for 40 years if the stock market goes up on average 7% a year will leave you with over half a million pounds. Just from looking after your household bills properly, It's even better if your work offer salary sacrifice so you are getting another 13% or so of your contribution added because of the saving in national insurance.

 

[Astute]

sisu have been idiotic, but it was all to get ground cheap, if it had worked they would be heroes up there with jimmy hill!

Why would a bunch of faceless investors making a big profit for themselves have been seen as heroes by us?

 

[Astute]

I don't know your situation but alot of people who don't think they can save can do.

Cashback sites + moving your gas/electric/skytv/broadband/house insurance/car insurance/mobile phone contract can easily save you a grand a year. put that into a works pension it's increased to £1200 because of the 20% tax saving, then your employer matches it, now it's £2400 a year, that for 40 years if the stock market goes up on average 7% a year will leave you with over half a million pounds. Just from looking after your household bills properly, It's even better if your work offer salary sacrifice so you are getting another 13% or so of your contribution added because of the saving in national insurance.

40 years ago you could buy a nice house for 5k. Now you need 250k. So 500k in 40 years might buy you a loaf of bread

 

[Noggin]

The mitigation of the risk was the amount the council would receive back over the life of the loan. They're now in a position where they've got the capital back + some interest but their favoured leaseholder has mortgages its lease to unknown bondholders to the tune of £35m.

That said, no guarantee to investors that the price they've paid for the bond will hold. Could Wasps in theory buy back the bonds at a reduced rate at a point in the future? What hapens at the end of the 7 year period. If you took out a £2k bond do you get the full £2k back or do you get the current market value at that time?

Wasps can force a buyback of the bonds but only at an increased rate to they were sold at (it's about 5% but it changes overtime), if the value of the bonds fall and bond holders wish to sell them then of course wasps could buy them at that price, they aren't like shares though the price isn't likely to fluctuate much unless people believe they won't be repaid, if interest rates shot up though then the bond would be worth less (the further from the maturation date the more this is true) if you took out a £2k bond in 7 years you will get £2k back unless wasps and ACL both go bust. £2k will also be very close to the market value at the time because the closer a bond comes to maturing the closer it's value will be to the amount you will be paid.

 

[duffer]

I don't know your situation but alot of people who don't think they can save can do.

Cashback sites + moving your gas/electric/skytv/broadband/house insurance/car insurance/mobile phone contract can easily save you a grand a year. put that into a works pension it's increased to £1200 because of the 20% tax saving, then your employer matches it, now it's £2400 a year, that for 40 years if the stock market goes up on average 7% a year will leave you with over half a million pounds. Just from looking after your household bills properly, It's even better if your work offer salary sacrifice so you are getting another 13% or so of your contribution added because of the saving in national insurance.

It's good advice Noggin, and much appreciated. The problem isn't the income though, it's the outgoing which is mostly driven by those pesky kids. As long as I've got enough for a park bench and a three-litre bottle of White Lightening, my retirement will be sufficient for my needs.

If the missus doesn't like it she'll have to marry someone younger.

 

[torchomatic]

I've got one of those much hated Public sector final salary pensions. However, we don't earn a great deal anyway. I really don't know how long I will be working before I retire.

I don't know your situation but alot of people who don't think they can save can do.

Cashback sites + moving your gas/electric/skytv/broadband/house insurance/car insurance/mobile phone contract can easily save you a grand a year. put that into a works pension it's increased to £1200 because of the 20% tax saving, then your employer matches it, now it's £2400 a year, that for 40 years if the stock market goes up on average 7% a year will leave you with over half a million pounds. Just from looking after your household bills properly, It's even better if your work offer salary sacrifice so you are getting another 13% or so of your contribution added because of the saving in national insurance.

 

[Noggin]

40 years ago you could buy a nice house for 5k. Now you need 250k. So 500k in 40 years might buy you a loaf of bread

If inflation is at 2% a year for that 40 years, that 500k is worth about 300k in real terms. Which is enough for you to be comfortable in your retirement however long it is. (I know you were joking but thought it was interesting to respond seriously)

 

[Captain Dart]

its clear council did a lot of things wrong and i hope these 2 individuals get punished for that.

as long as it dont effect ccfc transfer budget then im all for it.

even if you hate sisu you must understand that council did alot of stuff wrong, and justice must be done!

If it was clear then a legal case would go against them. I wonder if you believe not giving preferential treatment to CCFC is wrongdoing?

 

[Astute]

It's good advice Noggin, and much appreciated. The problem isn't the income though, it's the outgoing which is mostly driven by those pesky kids. As long as I've got enough for a park bench and a three-litre bottle of White Lightening, my retirement will be sufficient for my needs.

If the missus doesn't like it she'll have to marry someone younger.

I started mine when I changed jobs. I started it before I got my first wage pack so never missed the money. Then the CSA hit me for £360 a month......about 20 years ago Then she went to my mother telling her I wasn't giving her any money :facepalm: If she would have worked she would have got it. I had to move in with the bird I was seeing and rent my house out. Maybe that is why that bird became my wife

 

[Noggin]

I've got one of those much hated Public sector final salary pensions. However, we don't earn a great deal anyway. I really don't know how long I will be working before I retire.

I must admit I don't know a great deal about final salary pensions, All my learning about pensions/isa/bonds/shares etc has been to make sure that my wifes finances are all sorted and she is saving properly for her future while I'm still around to help. Which is done now, So hopefully when she's in her late 50's she can relax on a beach and raise a glass to the sky, fuck now I'm upset, stupid me.

 

[Astute]

If inflation is at 2% a year for that 40 years, that 500k is worth about 300k in real terms. Which is enough for you to be comfortable in your retirement however long it is. (I know you were joking but thought it was interesting to respond seriously)

Yes......but do you really think that inflation will stay at 2% average for 40 years? If the same happens as it did in the 70's and inflation hits 13% or more half of the value is lost in 4 years....although if your wage goes up by the same the future payments will go up.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Aren't public sector pensions Career average now?

 

[skyblueinBaku]

OSB58, in an earlier post, you mentioned that Sisu might argue a hostile take-over attempt. This hostile take-over was mentioned a couple of weeks ago in another thread. I don't recall any take-over attempt by ACL, CCC etc. When was it?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

I've just come to the end of this thread to see if it was the normal descendance into good people vs bad people.

How refreshing to see that the forum is branching out into MoneySupermarket territory.