December Stadium Deadline (2 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

Maybe because they didn't know ACL had already been sold on to Wasps by CCC. We were negotiating thinking we had a chance of ownership, helped by the rhetoric here: http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/coventry-city-fc-ownership-ricoh-7655374 but in reality a deal with Wasps was already done and dusted.

More interesting would be, why didn't CCFC ( Otium ) ask for 5 and 5 instead of 2 plus 2? They were certainly being optimistic in thinking they would get a stadium together in under 4 years. At 100000 a year rent they could even afford to pay off the contract ( write off the money ) , and leave should they complete a multi million stadium to their benefit in a shorter space of time.

 

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[Godiva]

Let slip? Why shouldn't ACL have been talking to other parties? The stadium was empty, what were ACL suppose to do? Twiddle their thumbs or begged to CCFC came back? SISU had moved them to Northampton for three years whilst a new stadium was being built don't forget!

For years I have been branded a blatant sisu-lover, but I don't think I have defended any of their actions with such determination you show here. It almost seems personal to you.

You ask what ACL were supposed to do? How about invite the club to buy the stadium at the same conditions Wasps got?

 

[chiefdave]

Exactly. There is a break clause in favour of ACL after the 2 plus 2.

Not after the 2 + 2 after the initial 2 which means at the end of this season Wasps can kick is out.

 

[torchomatic]

He's not a "fanboy" apparently.

For years I have been branded a blatant sisu-lover, but I don't think I have defended any of their actions with such determination you show here. It almost seems personal to you.

You ask what ACL were supposed to do? How about invite the club to buy the stadium at the same conditions Wasps got?

 

[chiefdave]

More interesting would be, why didn't CCFC ( Otium ) ask for 5 and 5 instead of 2 plus 2?

Well for all we know they did ask for longer. Of course you have to rememeber that when the 2 + 2 was agreed the talk was of rebuild the relationship and the club eventually owning the stadium. Perhaps there was an expectaion that the 2 + 2 was enough time for that. Of course we now know that there was no intention of selling the stadium to the club but that wasn't the case at the time.

 

[torchomatic]

That's right, August 2016.

Not after the 2 + 2 after the initial 2 which means at the end of this season Wasps can kick is out.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

So basically all guess work and assumption on your behalf?

Just going on my experience, the only people I know who knew/cared are those who have made an effort to follow the tournament.

It was a shock and big story in the rugby world not the entire world as you are trying to make out.

 

[martcov]

Remember at the time the line from the ACL / CCC side was that this was the beginning of rebuilding the relationship with a view to the club owning the ground in the future, while in reality they knew they had already agreed to sell it to Wasps.

The acting leader of Coventry City Council has not ruled out the Sky Blues owning the Ricoh Arena in the future.
Weeks of secret negotiations have led to the club agreeing to return to the stadium on a temporary agreement for up to four years.
While both parties have indicated that could be extended, club officials insist they eventually need to own a stadium.
Speaking after the Telegraph broke news of the Sky Blues Ricoh Arena return, Coun Phil Townshend said time was needed for trust to be rebuilt before looking at the potential of the council agreeing a deal for ownership of the Ricoh Arena with the club.

So the club repeated that, although the rental agreement could be extended, they eventually need to own a stadium.

Why "to own a stadium"? Why not," if we can build up trust with the council, we would be prepared to look at making a renewed bid for the Ricoh at the end of the 4 years"? That would have had put the ball in CCC's court to ask them to at least match any other bid that came in in the meantime. But TF repeated after the Gillingham game that they were looking to build their own stadium. End of story. We now have no stadium and no prospect of a stadium anywhere. We got to this state without even involving Wasps or any other potential invader. Plain bloody mindedness on the part of Otium.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

And therein lies the exact problem.... we shouldn't be making money for Wasps.

Dream scenario for the wasp fans on here.

 

[skybluetony176]

For years I have been branded a blatant sisu-lover, but I don't think I have defended any of their actions with such determination you show here. It almost seems personal to you.

You ask what ACL were supposed to do? How about invite the club to buy the stadium at the same conditions Wasps got?

If that had have happened do you believe that SISU would have snapped their hands off?

 

[fernandopartridge]

"Talking about" and being involved in fine details are two different things. So saying they were talking isn't an Addition that they were saying how long CCFC could sign up for.

Thanks for that. I'm sure that ACL ignored any prospect of Wasps talking over in the negotiations.

 

[Godiva]

If that had have happened do you believe that SISU would have snapped their hands off?

Yes, definitely.

 

[Steve.B50]

In a nutshell, majority think SISU wont be building a new stadium.
Some hope Wasps go, and we get the Ricoh. Some dont. There is some discussion on Wasps feasibility.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Moff

 

[armybike]

For years I have been branded a blatant sisu-lover, but I don't think I have defended any of their actions with such determination you show here. It almost seems personal to you.

You ask what ACL were supposed to do? How about invite the club to buy the stadium at the same conditions Wasps got?

Not wearing sky blue tinted glasses and asking questions (please note the question marks in the post you've quoted) means it's personal to me? Your interpretation is your interpretation (but wrong by the way!).

Why should ACL have extended the olive branch? SISU had left them out of pocket due to the rent strike and then stropped off to Northampton.

They continually said they were going to build their own stadium.

 

[martcov]

Not after the 2 + 2 after the initial 2 which means at the end of this season Wasps can kick is out.

"The club announced yesterday the two-year deal, with an option for an extra two years, which will see the Sky Blues play at the Ricoh Arena for the first time in the league against Gillingham."

Not according to club in this quote. An option usually means to keep going, not to be thrown out. If they get thrown out after 2 years, then they never had an option to stay on for another 2 years. What is this "break clause"?

 

[MalcSB]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-stadium-plans-10066216



Thoughts?

I have been looking for that reference for ages, obviously not hard enough, so thanks for that.

Townsend didn't give much time to allowing trust to be rebuilt, did he. Six weeks later approval was given for wasp's to take over acl. He must have known about the deal being discussed. That seems dishonest and yet so few people have picked up on it.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yes, definitely.

And in answer to the "Why didn't they do it before?" silly question that will follow:

They were never given the opportunity to buy 100% of ACL as at the time the council were in it for the long term.

Extending the lease to 125 years was provisionally agreed but in the end neither party pursued it.

 

[martcov]

Thanks for that. I'm sure that ACL ignored any prospect of Wasps talking over in the negotiations.

How do you know that ACL were informed of the takeover? Just out of interest.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

If an outsider read this forum they would genuinely think we have been infiltrated by wasp plants

 

[armybike]

Just going on my experience, the only people I know who knew/cared are those who have made an effort to follow the tournament.

It was a shock and big story in the rugby world not the entire world as you are trying to make out.

Blimey, talk about skewing what I said! People outside of the rugby world did engage (try a quick Google) and at no stage did I make out, say or imply the entire world were involved.

 

[Godiva]

Why should ACL have extended the olive branch? SISU had left them out of pocket due to the rent strike and then stropped off to Northampton.

To avoid the current uncertain situation and the future prospect of losing the club (who create jobs and bring revenue to local businesses)?

 

[fernandopartridge]

How do you know that ACL were informed of the takeover? Just out of interest.

I will have to find the quote either Derek Richardson or Nick Eastwood referenced talks with ACL that pre-date August 2014.

Do you think that this deal, including all the legal ramifications, was made in a 6 week period? When the fundamentals of what Wasps were purchasing were subject to change?

 

[martcov]

I have been looking for that reference for ages, obviously not hard enough, so thanks for that.

Townsend didn't give much time to allowing trust to be rebuilt, did he. Six weeks later approval was given for wasp's to take over acl. He must have known about the deal being discussed. That seems dishonest and yet so few people have picked up on it.

Unfortunately Tim had in the meantime confirmed that they ( Otium ) were building their own stadium. It would have been more questionable if Tim had confirmed building up trust as a way to maybe making an offer for the Ricoh. Maybe offering to drop the JR in return for a good deal would have been a good way out for all concerned ( except, of course, Wasps ).

 

[Otis]

If an outsider read this forum they would genuinely think we have been infiltrated by wasp plants

Wasp Plants? I think you're making that up and I'm sure there's no such thing.

Just because there's a Venus Flytrap, doesn't mean there's going to be a Wasp Plant.

 

[Godiva]

If an outsider read this forum they would genuinely think we have been infiltrated by wasp plants

More likely CCC plants. Wasps are not really to blame.

 

[Otis]

More likely CCC plants. Wasps are not really to blame.

They are. They could have grown a pair of scruples.

Sent from my LG-D405 using Tapatalk

 

[fernandopartridge]

Unfortunately Tim had in the meantime confirmed that they ( Otium ) were building their own stadium. It would have been more questionable if Tim had confirmed building up trust as a way to maybe making an offer for the Ricoh. Maybe offering to drop the JR in return for a good deal would have been a good way out for all concerned ( except, of course, Wasps ).

Why should anything be predicated on dropping the JR? What sort of public authority would blackmail like that?

 

[armybike]

He's not a "fanboy" apparently.

So I'm a fanboi as I recognise our owners are useless, have no intention of building a stadium and should get round the table with Wasps and agree the best deal for all involved?

Maybe I should just cross my fingers and hope Wasps go out of business in five years?

 

[Godiva]

I will have to find the quote either Derek Richardson or Nick Eastwood referenced talks with ACL that pre-date August 2014.

Do you think that this deal, including all the legal ramifications, was made in a 6 week period? When the fundamentals of what Wasps were purchasing were subject to change?

In his first interview Eastwood said the process had been in motion for more than two years. If that is the case, it would place the first talks around the time ACL decided to abandon the 'roadmap' and proceed to YB alone.

Who was it on here that repeatedly warned us the club was not the only show in town?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

More likely CCC plants. Wasps are not really to blame.

True but the blatant wasps marketing on here is disgusting.

 

[fernandopartridge]

In his first interview Eastwood said the process had been in motion for more than two years. If that is the case, it would place the first talks around the time ACL decided to abandon the 'roadmap' and proceed to YB alone.

Who was it on here that repeatedly warned us the club was not the only show in town?

Fiduciary duty

 

[armybike]

To avoid the current uncertain situation and the future prospect of losing the club (who create jobs and bring revenue to local businesses)?

Yep, the current predicament is all down to ACL (and CCC/Wasps?)!

 

[martcov]

I will have to find the quote either Derek Richardson or Nick Eastwood referenced talks with ACL that pre-date August 2014.

Do you think that this deal, including all the legal ramifications, was made in a 6 week period? When the fundamentals of what Wasps were purchasing were subject to change?

No, I don't. I think the possibilty of a deal was there though, and that SISU's continuation of the JR ( really Joy of course ) plus Tim's confirmation after the Gillingham game, in the middle of the euphory, that they were going ahead with the stadium build really gave CCC the choice of, take Wasps now or maybe lose them whilst Tim - possibly - builds a stadium and laughs at them stuck with a white elephant. Even if the chances of a stadium were slight, they would be in real trouble for speculating on it not happening if it did actually happen. That would have been a justifiable JR. I don't think Wasps were a definate at that point, otherwise there would not have been a 2 plus 2 licence as reported and confirmed by CCFC. Wasps must have had at least a proposal worked out with a business plan to back it up if SISU continued with the "we are building our own stadium policy". As they did. SISU were repeatedly criticised by CCC for not having presented a viable business plan - another sign that they were not interessed at that point in getting the Ricoh. Left CCC with almost no option in the end.

 

[Godiva]

So I'm a fanboi as I recognise our owners are useless, have no intention of building a stadium and should get round the table with Wasps and agree the best deal for all involved?

Maybe I should just cross my fingers and hope Wasps go out of business in five years?

ACL will not be able to offer us any deal that will see us competitive in the Championship.

We don't know if sisu are working on plans to build a stadium.
It's funny how every time TF goes public some people call for him to shut up. Now he doesn't speak and the same people wan't him to speak up?

And ACL won't go out of business in 5 years. Not even in 7 when they will have to pay out the bonds. They will simply issue new bonds.
Borrowing from family, friends and fools is a known instrument. They have paid back the family (Eastwood), paid back their friends (CCC) and are now borrowing from the fools.

 

[martcov]

Why should anything be predicated on dropping the JR? What sort of public authority would blackmail like that?

One that ended up selling a stadium with a 250 year lease to an out of town sports club because they were in the shit. Perhaps.