Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
I refer back to my post #85. Simple as that really.
Ding ding - round 2 (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Captain Dart
- Start date
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Just got in and took a look at the live feed. Seems confusing to me
What are they going to mediate, to what end and will it be binding? Surely they have to define the exact terms to have any hope of success?
Is the move to mediation simply procedural ?
mediation means compromise on all sides and sticking to it ....... that will be a first for this dispute
Throwing in the bit about a new stadium almost seems like a challenge........ "we are prepared to help but will you commit and fund at least some of it"
Its not about the share disposal and that wont change in value or nature ...... but then goes on about the lease extension being part of the same deal..... an extension that you cant have unless you own ACL. Surely including the extension in the first deal means changing the value?
So evidence on share value is pointless or worthless in this court case? So the SISU expert would have to restrict his evidence to the value of the lease extension if it gets that far
If you cant have the extension without owning ACL and the share value and ownership deal is set in stone what is the point of a marketing experts testimony?
The value of the lease in the share deal was £18m+ SISU/CCFC are arguing by bringing the lease extension the value should have been £47m or the value put on it at the bond issue, if they are right then the security is the same
Surely if the whole thing is mediated and finalised to the courts satisfaction there can be no civil case as those grounds should be covered
It seems to me that the appeal judges have said if we consider everything but change nothing on the share deal then we have done our work and possibly save time at this or a higher court. Mediation will bring out issues I assume but will it be permitted as evidence in the court case should it fail. What it will do is show the judges who is dealing in good faith I assume. Seems a fudge - why not just say yes you have a JR2 but only on the lease extension?
Just my immediate thoughts.
Its almost like saying how much will SISU accept to make it go away. Assuming that CCC or Wasps have a desire to pay anything. I cant see the settlement being below £20m.....
What are they going to mediate, to what end and will it be binding? Surely they have to define the exact terms to have any hope of success?
Is the move to mediation simply procedural ?
mediation means compromise on all sides and sticking to it ....... that will be a first for this dispute
Throwing in the bit about a new stadium almost seems like a challenge........ "we are prepared to help but will you commit and fund at least some of it"
Its not about the share disposal and that wont change in value or nature ...... but then goes on about the lease extension being part of the same deal..... an extension that you cant have unless you own ACL. Surely including the extension in the first deal means changing the value?
So evidence on share value is pointless or worthless in this court case? So the SISU expert would have to restrict his evidence to the value of the lease extension if it gets that far
If you cant have the extension without owning ACL and the share value and ownership deal is set in stone what is the point of a marketing experts testimony?
The value of the lease in the share deal was £18m+ SISU/CCFC are arguing by bringing the lease extension the value should have been £47m or the value put on it at the bond issue, if they are right then the security is the same
Surely if the whole thing is mediated and finalised to the courts satisfaction there can be no civil case as those grounds should be covered
It seems to me that the appeal judges have said if we consider everything but change nothing on the share deal then we have done our work and possibly save time at this or a higher court. Mediation will bring out issues I assume but will it be permitted as evidence in the court case should it fail. What it will do is show the judges who is dealing in good faith I assume. Seems a fudge - why not just say yes you have a JR2 but only on the lease extension?
Just my immediate thoughts.
Its almost like saying how much will SISU accept to make it go away. Assuming that CCC or Wasps have a desire to pay anything. I cant see the settlement being below £20m.....
Last edited:
mechaishida
Well-Known Member
It's not that small surely
Gets a reaction, whatever size is it is.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Isn't this about the third attempt by SISU to get something heard, with a third shift in their case based on the failings of their previous case? I think SISU are well versed in technicalities. Why should anyone (CCC or anyone) reveal their evidence before the other party has got past go (your case will be heard). The onus is on SISU not CCC or Wasps at this stage.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Just a thought but the company owning the lease and extension is ACL not Wasps holdings. ACL is a subsidiary, and subsidiary companies don't always survive but their assets can be transferred .............. we have seen that before haven't we
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
they wont back out
the club have their stance, CCC have their stance and wasps have their stance
They will agree to meet, they wont get anywhere and back in court in May, followed by JR2 late 2018 or early 2019, followed by civil action mid to late 2019. What remains to be seen is their approach in 2020 and beyond, but I am sure they will have the court plan mapped out for years to come.
the club have their stance, CCC have their stance and wasps have their stance
They will agree to meet, they wont get anywhere and back in court in May, followed by JR2 late 2018 or early 2019, followed by civil action mid to late 2019. What remains to be seen is their approach in 2020 and beyond, but I am sure they will have the court plan mapped out for years to come.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
this is a job for paul Appleton !
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
The sad thing is that if SISU do get some sort of "settlement" or even manage to win this or any other case the club by 2020. I can't see any of those funds ever being invested in the club. The never ending legal cases and entrenched positions of all sides is the cause of the collateral damage that is our club!
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
I think as a fan base (those who are left) either come to terms with the fact this will go on for many years to come and the club will tread water with uninterested owners more concerned with prolonging the court battle, or we do something about it.
The former is the best way of keeping the 5,000 or so we have left and hopefully not lose too many more next season
You do wonder if its time for us to wave a truce and start looking at Nuneaton or similar grounds, as this season is already demonstrating, an empty "ricoh" cant be our home much longer.
An empty ricoh or a full coombe abbey stadium surely is a no brainer ?
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
yes.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Hmm, while I admire you putting your head above the parapit...
I could have bought / could buy a move to the Butts, but for whatever reason (true distrust of SISU / desire not to have difficulties with his local council etc.) that option seems closed.
Nuneaton would be... hard to swallow.
Wonder if MMM fancies renting them Webb Ellis Road
oucho
Well-Known Member
Hmm, while I admire you putting your head above the parapit...
I could have bought / could buy a move to the Butts, but for whatever reason (true distrust of SISU / desire not to have difficulties with his local council etc.) that option seems closed.
Nuneaton would be... hard to swallow.
Wonder if MMM fancies renting them Webb Ellis Road
Or, shock horror, we could stay at the Ricoh.
On another topic, this thread isn't correctly titled. It should be Ding Ding round 84627, or at least it feels that way.
no_loyalty
Well-Known Member
Will us being out of the European union by 2020, have any impact on the appeal process?
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
No.
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
can you appeal brexit ?
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
why be in a 30k+ arena with 6k attendances (and that's with the optimism of play offs / promotion this season).
And if so, surely its time to only open one stand for one set of stewards, one bar etc ?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
We aren’t anything like sustainable in the Ricoh until we hit the mid teens in terms of crowds IMO. If that’s where we plan to be, then fine. But if we plan to bumble around L1/2/Conference level we need a new ground.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
If we took SISU out of the equation (if only!) then we'd need a new ground for our own identity. Let Wasps turn their seats black & gold, whatever. We'd also need a smaller ground to begin with, but modular enough in construction we could improve it relatively easily.
We've said time and time and time again, but a partnership with Warwick University would have been ideal. Of course while SISU are here, there's less than zero chance they'd be progressive enough to think that. It's also unlikely any of the immediate suitors would be progressive enough to think beyond the RIcoh.
That being said, as it stands, with next season not so long away now, we really don't have many options other than the Ricoh, do we?
ccfcway
Well-Known Member
yes, Nuneaton. why would we not speak to them. perhaps cheaper rent, larger % of match day revenues etc
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Because it's in Nuneaton?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
No mate we need a new fucking plan.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Smaller crowds, less ticket revenue and a larger % of smaller match day revenue.
oucho
Well-Known Member
To be clear, we do NOT need a new stadium!!! There's nothing unsustainable about it. The only unsustainable thing is spending millions on a new ground when we can keep paying the rent where we are.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
We do, we don't own one. We've needed a new stadium since we sold Highfield Road.
Well there is. Without it, we might never have seen the current carpet baggers here running the club in the first place.
steve82
Well-Known Member
Some strict rules any stadium needs to be fit for the league.
EFL Official Website - Appendix 1 - Membership Criteria (Regulation 8)
Having never been to Nuneaton ground I do hope it's not suitable. Tho on our recent visit to Accrington I suspect it is.
EFL Official Website - Appendix 1 - Membership Criteria (Regulation 8)
Having never been to Nuneaton ground I do hope it's not suitable. Tho on our recent visit to Accrington I suspect it is.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Accrington was a better ground than Nuneaton’s.
bawtryneal
Well-Known Member
The real issue is not just regarding size of attendances and rent payable but all the other income that comes from "owning" a stadium.
Your average top end League 1/ mid championship team who owns there own ground will earn approx £150k a month in corporate (both match day and non match day) revenue.
Rotherham, a team which I know a lot about from a commercial/financial point of view earns in excess of this.
Simple things like hiring out the pitch (£800), weddings, Xmas parties, birthday parties, car parking, car boot sales, small exhibitions, hiring conference rooms etc etc.
Advertising around the ground and pitch perimeter £10k a match
Naming rights to the ground. Could be several million over 10 year period.
Add on top the match day corporate entertainment (Rotherham get 800 people most Saturdays paying £65 a head) plus boxs etc
CCFC currently get none of above. A massive loss.
oucho
Well-Known Member
Sorry i don't see why we need to own the stadium. This is just Sisu propaganda to justify their actions. The Ricoh as a whole loses money, why would we want an additional millstone around or necks?
covmark
Well-Known Member
Look at the post above yours. Sums it up perfectly.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I dunno, if we were to get back to the Championship I think we could make the Ricoh work financially and spiritually. But I can’t see that any time soon.
You’re right that next season we have to be there pretty much. What annoys me is that we’ve had time to build two new grounds since initiating this nonsense and we haven’t so much as laid a brick. Now we’re over a barrel.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Forget the economics of it for a second (and I don’t think they work on 6k gates), in pure atmosphere terms we can’t keep playing in a 1/5 full stadium.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
How is it SISU propaganda? Name me one person who believes SISU'd actually do it!
But that doesn't mean that if we had proper owners, they shouldn't do it.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
I don't think we can while we're always the second rate tenants. It's confidently said Wasps won't change the seats and sure, it might cost too much for them now but, in terms of embedding themselves, I absolutely would do that if I owned the thing.
The long term benefits of forging an identity and solidifying a presence are why you do the intangibles... and those self same intangibles are exactly what we need to do too... but we don't have the place to do them at!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You may be right about Wasps. I’d change the seats if I was them. Maybe we can petition them to change their wasp?
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
Ok I have read the whole thing on the feed and Sisu basically want Wasps to pay some more money to the council, they go bankrupt and then Sisu come and buy the Ricoh for £10.
If that fails then they want the same arrangement Swansea have we their egg sharing friends.
If that fails then they want the same arrangement Swansea have we their egg sharing friends.
