The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

NorthernWisdom said:

Eh? Will happily say Livingstone is mad. He's still suspended, of course.

Not like you to swerve something where you've been outmaneuvered however...

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Hardly swerving - momentum specialise in social media bullying against Tories and its own members if they step out of line.

600 labour members launched a tirade on the MP Jess Phillips when she stated that labour was steeped in male bias under Corbyn. She was threatened with rape but the general conclusion was she was fat ugly and probably on the blob.

I’ve referred to this several times on here and I know you’ve seen it.

The fact you ignore it and leap on this says more about your morality than mine.

Grendel said:

Hardly swerving - momentum specialise in social media bullying against Tories and its own members if they step out of line.

600 labour members launched a tirade on the MP Jess Phillips when she stated that labour was steeped in male bias under Corbyn. She was threatened with rape but the general conclusion was she was fat ugly and probably on the blob.

I’ve referred to this several times on here and I know you’ve seen it.

The fact you ignore it and leap on this says more about your morality than mine.

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Well no actually, I've taken to avoiding threads like this because they end up childish point scoring at best and closet xenophobia at worst.

I'll quite happily condemn the above too if it makes you happy... looking forward to you condemning a fair few of the unsavoury comments that pop up around here mind. Actually, I'm surprised you haven't as, whatever your style, I always had you down as vaguely liberal, and the vaguely acceptable face of you righties.

NorthernWisdom said:

Eh? Will happily say Livingstone is mad. He's still suspended, of course.

Not like you to swerve something where you've been outmaneuvered however...

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People should also stop (deliberately) confusing anti-Zionism with being antisemitic. Many groups of people are anti-Zionist including Orthodox Jews and I’m pretty sure they’re not antisemitic.

skybluetony176 said:

People should also stop (deliberately) confusing anti-Zionism with being antisemitic. Many groups of people are anti-Zionist including Orthodox Jews and I’m pretty sure they’re not antisemitic.

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and Palestinians are actually Semites - just to add to the confusion!

clint van damme said:

and Palestinians are actually Semites - just to add to the confusion!

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Correct. Semite in it’s true meaning just means people who speak or spoke in a Semitic language. The definition covers both Arabs and Jews.

NorthernWisdom said:

Well no actually, I've taken to avoiding threads like this because they end up childish point scoring at best and closet xenophobia at worst.

I'll quite happily condemn the above too if it makes you happy... looking forward to you condemning a fair few of the unsavoury comments that pop up around here mind. Actually, I'm surprised you haven't as, whatever your style, I always had you down as vaguely liberal, and the vaguely acceptable face of you righties.

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Well yes of course I condemn all forms of bullying, intimidation and racism. Ive always been very transparent that I’ve really little interest in the immigration argument other than the right to have control over it in the same way we control all aspects of legislation and do not disolve power.

Grendel said:

Well yes of course I condemn all forms of bullying, intimidation and racism. Ive always been very transparent that I’ve really little interest in the immigration argument other than the right to have control over it in the same way we control all aspects of legislation and do not disolve power.

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But you leave posts go by, in the same way you accuse others of leaving posts go by.

Can only, then, assume that by your own logic, that means you approve of the casual racism that crops up now and again.

I'm sure that's not right though... is it.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

See my last post.

Plus 'advisory' referendum makes you sound like a loser. Drop it. If the result had gone the other way around you wouldn't have heard people saying that.

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The other way was the status quo. Nothing would have changed, or at least nothing as dramatic as leaving.

NorthernWisdom said:

But you leave posts go by, in the same way you accuse others of leaving posts go by.

Can only, then, assume that by your own logic, that means you approve of the casual racism that crops up now and again.

I'm sure that's not right though... is it.

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Is there really much actual racism on here - really?

Grendel said:

Is there really much actual racism on here - really?

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Not off most.

Not much anti-semetism though either, is there? Even less, in fact...

It crops up occasionally. Usually when people choose to pre-empt the defence that people will call them racist for their purely reasonable views.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

My heart bleeds.

They know exactly what they are doing and I have very little sympathy to be honest.

Remember, the arrogance, bullying, and harassment was a big factor in what pushed some people to vote leave. A few words the other way doesn't mitigate that, even if that isn't right either.

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So they are asking to be abused, threatened and, if the threats are carried out, killed? Big difference between leave and remain tactics. Never heard of remainers wanting to kill leavers or threatening to.

martcov said:

So they are asking to be abused, threatened and, if the threats are carried out, killed? Big difference between leave and remain tactics. Never heard of remainers wanting to kill leavers or threatening to.

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Farage had numerous death threats - one protestor has a restraining order. His family have also been threatened.

Captain Dart said:

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He won? He described the vote to maintain parliamentary sovereignty as treacherous and excused it because 'the people' voted politicians in.
A grade A clown who'd be kicking his whippets if Corbyn became PM and tried to sneak legislation in through the back door.

clint van damme said:

He won? He described the vote to maintain parliamentary sovereignty as treacherous and excused it because 'the people' voted politicians in.
A grade A clown who'd be kicking his whippets if Corbyn became PM and tried to sneak legislation in through the back door.

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He’s echoed the exact sentiments of Corbyns ultimate paymaster - Red Len who wants to stop immigration at all costs.

Grendel said:

He’s echoed the exact sentiments of Corbyns ultimate paymaster - Red Len who wants to stop immigration at all costs.

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I'm on about this act of treachery bollocks. It wasn't an act of treachery if you believe in democracy.

clint van damme said:

I'm on about this act of treachery bollocks. It wasn't an act of treachery if you believe in democracy.

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It was an act of self indulgence

Grendel said:

It was an act of self indulgence

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that's your opinion, but you agree with the principle I know that.

Grendel said:

Farage had numerous death threats - one protestor has a restraining order. His family have also been threatened.

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Even I don't agree with that.

martcov said:

Even I don't agree with that.

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As has Liam Fox

Grendel said:

As has Liam Fox

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Or that. What a terrible mess we are in.

martcov said:

Or that. What a terrible mess we are in.

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Not really - it’s just the social media world we live in. I constantly quote Jess Phillips as she is a good public serving MP in the traditional style and the treatment she received and subsequent lack of support from the labour hierarchy was beyond the norm and disgraceful.

I see death threats have been made against the 'rebels'. The likes of the Mail have got a lot to answer for.

No matter what side you're on, any decent person should condemn it. It's a vile publication.

Sick Boy said:

I see death threats have been made against the 'rebels'. The likes of the Mail have got a lot to answer for.

No matter what side you're on, any decent person should condemn it. It's a vile publication.

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Absolutely, and I think most decent people do.

I do raise an eybrow at people who get elevated about this and have ignored the last 18 months worth of abuse that many brexit voters have received however.

Sick Boy said:

I see death threats have been made against the 'rebels'. The likes of the Mail have got a lot to answer for.

No matter what side you're on, any decent person should condemn it. It's a vile publication.

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Agree and with everything else written about death threats above.
Grendels right about the social media world. Too easy to bang out a post in anger and fire it off.
People need to learn to think a little bit.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

Absolutely, and I think most decent people do.

I do raise an eybrow at people who get elevated about this and have ignored the last 18 months worth of abuse that many brexit voters have received however.

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The Mail's abuse has been beyond a lot else though, especially using a judge's sexuality as a major character fault.

Amongst ordinary people there has been abuse on both sides. However the likes of the Mail are able to reach millions of people and get them worked up into a frenzy.

clint van damme said:

Agree and with everything else written about death threats above.
Grendels right about the social media world. Too easy to bang out a post in anger and fire it off.
People need to learn to think a little bit.

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I think the Mail knows exactly what it is doing!

Sick Boy said:

I see death threats have been made against the 'rebels'. The likes of the Mail have got a lot to answer for.

No matter what side you're on, any decent person should condemn it. It's a vile publication.

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Ken Clarke laughed about the death threats on news night said he’d had a couple - he gets a few every now and then.

As I’ve pointed out Fox, farage and Johnson have had the same.

Grendel said:

Ken Clarke laughed about the death threats on news night said he’d had a couple - he gets a few every now and then.

As I’ve pointed out Fox, farage and Johnson have had the same.

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And death threats against any of them are wrong. Following the death of Jo Cox, I don't think we should just see it as one of those things.

Sick Boy said:

And death threats against any of them are wrong. Following the death of Jo Cox, I don't think we should just see it as one of those things.

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She was killed by someone who was mentally deranged. I doubt he was whistling in the garden one day and became a changed man after reading an article in the Daily Mail

Grendel said:

Ken Clarke laughed about the death threats on news night said he’d had a couple - he gets a few every now and then.

As I’ve pointed out Fox, farage and Johnson have had the same.

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And that's the problem now for the authorities.
Before social media you would have to go to the trouble of getting someones address or phone number and sending them a letter or ringing them. I think any threat carried out in that way is fairly credible.
Now you can bang out a tweet in seconds on the spur of the moment. I wouldn't think many of these threats are too credible but after Jo Cox I can't imagine they can be too careful.

i actually saw David Icke arguing with the police on the Isle of Wight after doing a talk because they wanted to escort him home after receiving a "credible threat from Zionists".
Icke was raging!! He thought it was nonsense and wanted to go home unescorted!

Grendel said:

She was killed by someone who was mentally deranged. I doubt he was whistling in the garden one day and became a changed man after reading an article in the Daily Mail

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he was a member of Britain First and a terrorist:

Grendel said:

She was killed by someone who was mentally deranged. I doubt he was whistling in the garden one day and became a changed man after reading an article in the Daily Mail

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Are you saying the Mail's style is acceptable then?

Grendel said:

Ken Clarke laughed about the death threats on news night said he’d had a couple - he gets a few every now and then.

As I’ve pointed out Fox, farage and Johnson have had the same.

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I know people from ethnic minority’s who laugh of racism they receive. Does that mean we should all be dismissive of racism?

Grendel said:

She was killed by someone who was mentally deranged. I doubt he was whistling in the garden one day and became a changed man after reading an article in the Daily Mail

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Was he tried as a mentally deranged person then?

Do you think that stupid, mental or violent people are not effected by the hate spewing from the likes of the Mail? There were more violent or abusive attacks after the Brexit campaign which indicates that some people do react to the general hysteria caused at least in part by the Brexit press.