Ten for £10 offer against Wycombe (1 Viewer)

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lifelongcityfan

Well-Known Member
Btw ...i have a spare ticket for the Friday game ( i bought it and then realised i am unable to go!) . If anyone wants it for 10pds, they are more than welcome. PM me
Adult West Stand Block 36
 
Cavan O'Doherty

Cavan O'Doherty

Well-Known Member
steve82 said:
I'm not convinced CCFC would be foolish enough to estimate ambitious figures of 9000 on average to set our SCMP forecast given the rate of which we're losing fans and given the drop in leagues and smaller clubs visiting the Ricoh with smaller away followings too.

Last season in league one we only had a league average of 9,119 with a total of 209,726 and previous to that averaged 12,570 with 289,119 over the league campaign in happier circumstances enjoying 4/5 months looking strong play off candidates.

Plus factor in last seasons L2 average gates too, Portsmouth were very good with a average of 16,391, followed by Plymouth with nearly half that on 8,798, and Luton in 3rd with 8,226.

Put all that together and you'd not go along with 9,000 average.

Interestingly Accrington last season had the lowest number of spectators and average with just 1,699 and a total of 39,085 which we will surpass twice over this weekend after 11 games.

Look how competitive they are and have been the last few seasons in L2 on such a tight budget.
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Remember Fisher saying we would get a minimum of 3,000 and 6-8,000 if we were doing well at Northampton? These people don't have a clue about football.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Londonccfcfan said:
Afraid I disagree with you, Every club at this level or any level for that matter of fact will be pushing their SCMP budgeting to the max. be silly not to.
MR will have to wheel and deal theres no doubt of that in the January transfer window. The actual figures we quote are all conjecture.

We have easily one of the biggest squads in League 2 (yes a lot of Home grown players) this is where I feel he will cut our budget we don't need close to 29 Pros!

At the moment these players are hardly getting a look in, not in even in squad some days?

Beavon, K Thomas, Dion Kelly Evans, Devon Kelly Evans, Camwell,

Definitely keep the following squad players ( Davies, Stokes, Hyam, Stevenson, Vincenti, Ponticelli) but some of the above will be shipped out.

Also theres no way SISU budgeted 9k average gate this season. like I said I'm sure they are blown away the fact we still averaging 7700!

That said a few decent results at home and a sustained play off push theres no reason why we cannot still average 9k.

For example the Home leg play off game alone will be a 20k gate! which will blow the average right up. Everyone will be coming out the woodwork then.

Luton and Lincoln at Home will be a 10k plus gate no doubt 2-3 away allocation sold easy. So we will no doubt still get a few 6500 gates (midweek) but on saying that we will also get another couple 10500 gates too.
So I think the average will be 8k this season.
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You see I don't think we are too far apart in thinking. I have no problem with a differing opinion that is well argued as is yours. I don't claim to get everything right and never have.

Yes all teams will max out their budget for wages I don't disagree its the nature of football finance. Initially it would have been based on guesswork and over the months becomes flexed to take account of reality. Even if they budgeted 8000 attendances then they are currently running at a budget deficit. The players are signed on a contract and their minimum cost fixed for the season. If attendances fail to hit budget the only thing left is to cut costs (and quality).

Recent history of the success of player acquisition gives me little reassurance against more wasted cash

The squad might be 29 but at least two are long term injuries that will still be costing the club. The average wage in L2 is no more than £1400 probably less at CCFC. Get rid of those 6 players and the saving this season would look to be £8400 pw for around 16 weeks = £134k. But then the potential useable squad would be too low I think at 21 and at least a couple of players needed to be brought in

if average wages are £1400 then player wage bill for the year would be £40k pw or 2.1m pa. Then add in the other football side staff, managers, academy staff & players, plus the non football side staff plus national insurance employers contribution plus pension plus directors and you are probably north of £2.5m. Match income runs at around £10 - £11 per head historically excluding VAT and adjusting for concessions . That's say £84k per home match or £1.9m. Average wages might well be lower but the trade off is quality usually and therefore prospects. Other teams manage to keep costs low and gain success but we don't seem to be able to - that's a different question as to why all of its own

There is of course other income like sponsorship, shop, TV etc but being in L2 they have taken a hit from £3m in 2016 L1. From that are deducted the direct costs and other overheads (ignoring interest charges) which in the last accounts (2016) were 2.8m - there should be some savings but these costs are reasonably fixed. Pure guess but is an estimate of Turnover total £4m to £4.5m far away? At that level losses and cash deficit could well be possible

To get to 8000 for the season every game left has to attract on average around 8500 for the rest of the season. Each game below 8500 simply pushes the figure needed up. To get to an average of 9000 then each remaining game has to average of 10k this season

That is without looking at the timing of the cash flows. They might get to the playoffs but that is at the end of the season and if a 20000 crowd is needed to bring the average back on budget then there would be financial damage done prior to that. Of course then the club has 3 months with little income, except season tickets which have to cover the whole of the next season financially. Also SCMP is reviewed throughout the season on the basis of flexing the original budget for what has happened not what might happen if they get to the playoffs

Whether we disagree on 9000 or 8000 doesn't really matter. There is very little fat on the bone and dipping below budget is a problem and the only solution, given SISU wont invest further, is to cut costs to balance things. It goes round in ever decreasing circles
 
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bawtryneal

bawtryneal

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
You see I don't think we are too far apart in thinking. I have no problem with a differing opinion that is well argued as is yours. I don't claim to get everything right and never have.

Yes all teams will max out their budget for wages I don't disagree its the nature of football finance. Initially it would have been based on guesswork and over the months becomes flexed to take account of reality. Even if they budgeted 8000 attendances then they are currently running at a budget deficit. The players are signed on a contract and their minimum cost fixed for the season. If attendances fail to hit budget the only thing left is to cut costs (and quality).

Recent history of the success of player acquisition gives me little reassurance against more wasted cash

The squad might be 29 but at least two are long term injuries that will still be costing the club. The average wage in L2 is no more than £1400 probably less at CCFC. Get rid of those 6 players and the saving this season would look to be £8400 pw for around 16 weeks = £134k. But then the potential useable squad would be too low I think at 21 and at least a couple of players needed to be brought in

if average wages are £1400 then player wage bill for the year would be £40k pw or 2.1m pa. Then add in the other football side staff, managers, academy staff & players, plus the non football side staff plus national insurance employers contribution plus pension plus directors and you are probably north of £2.5m. Match income runs at around £10 - £11 per head historically excluding VAT and adjusting for concessions . That's say £84k per home match or £1.9m. Average wages might well be lower but the trade off is quality usually and therefore prospects. Other teams manage to keep costs low and gain success but we don't seem to be able to - that's a different question as to why all of its own

There is of course other income like sponsorship, shop, TV etc but being in L2 they have taken a hit from £3m in 2016 L1. From that are deducted the direct costs and other overheads (ignoring interest charges) which in the last accounts (2016) were 2.8m - there should be some savings but these costs are reasonably fixed. Pure guess but is an estimate of Turnover total £4m to £4.5m far away? At that level losses and cash deficit could well be possible

To get to 8000 for the season every game left has to attract on average around 8500 for the rest of the season. Each game below 8500 simply pushes the figure needed up. To get to an average of 9000 then each remaining game has to average of 10k this season

That is without looking at the timing of the cash flows. They might get to the playoffs but that is at the end of the season and if a 20000 crowd is needed to bring the average back on budget then there would be financial damage done prior to that. Of course then the club has 3 months with little income, except season tickets which have to cover the whole of the next season financially. Also SCMP is reviewed throughout the season on the basis of flexing the original budget for what has happened not what might happen if they get to the playoffs

Whether we disagree on 9000 or 8000 doesn't really matter. There is very little fat on the bone and dipping below budget is a problem and the only solution, given SISU wont invest further, is to cut costs to balance things. It goes round in ever decreasing circles
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A good post. I think you are very accurate with your numbers
We need a windfall. Man U away in the cup for example or a televised home game with 20,000 plus in the Ricoh.
Would boost turnover by 400,000k ish.
 
Warwickhunt

Warwickhunt

Well-Known Member
Maisonette "bawtryneal, post: 1443224, member: 2044"]A good post. I think you are very accurate with your numbers
We need a windfall. Man U away in the cup for example or a televised home game with 20,000 plus in the Ricoh.
Would boost turnover by 400,000k ish.[/QUOTE]
Madison will be sold to Tottenham in January could be a lot as Norwich are struggling for funds. So I think our windfall will come from there
 
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