The World Cup Thread (6 Viewers)

Otis said:

The Kane one however was just bad refereeing. I think the ref today just didn't see this one properly. Once he saw the replay his decision was almost instant.

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That's the thing, it's pointless if it isn't used properly.

Nick said:

That's the thing, it's pointless if it isn't used properly.

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Needs better consistency.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

It was a penalty though, if you are following the rules.

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Except it wasn't as the law states it has to be deliberate handball.......

No pen......Ref is basically over-ruled by the pressure from the VAR panel........utter horseshit.....

jimmyhillsfanclub said:

Except it wasn't as the law states it has to be deliberate handball.......

No pen......Ref is basically over-ruled by the pressure from the VAR panel........utter horseshit.....

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Agree

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

Where is it said that it has to be deliberate? My understanding was that if you have your arm raised out (away from your body) in the box and the ball hits it, it is a penalty.

There is a difference between 'doing a Suarez' and what happened to Poulsen, but the only difference in punishment other than a penalty is a red card. That should be given for the former, but not the latter. Poulsen's arm was raised out and therefore it is a penalty. I do think the yellow card was harsh though, I wouldn't say it was deliberate.

I remember Andy Whing against Leeds at home about 10 years ago when we drew 1-1. The same thing happened. It was infuriating but it's always stuck with me since.

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Last minute wasn’t it? Was that the game Blackwell went into the refs dressing room at ht?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

I'm not sure mate, maybe. It was the one and only time I was in corporate!

In regards to the rules, it looks like there was some change in 2013 which was to do with if your arm is in an 'unnatural position'. It might be that you and JHFC are therefore right, but even looking on the FA website it is not clear.

Surely if a ball is going into the goal and it hits a hand other than a goalkeepers then it is a foul though?

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The ‘unnatural’ definition needs clarification as it was still attached to his arm and was ‘flopping’ as it moved with his jump, it wasn’t deliberately raised imo it just hit his arm which moved as the defender jumped

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

Where is it said that it has to be deliberate? My understanding was that if you have your arm raised out (away from your body) in the box and the ball hits it, it is a penalty.

There is a difference between 'doing a Suarez' and what happened to Poulsen, but the only difference in punishment other than a penalty is a red card. That should be given for the former, but not the latter. Poulsen's arm was raised out and therefore it is a penalty. I do think the yellow card was harsh though, I wouldn't say it was deliberate.

I remember Andy Whing against Leeds at home about 10 years ago when we drew 1-1. The same thing happened. It was infuriating but it's always stuck with me since.

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Yeah, there is the myth right there.

It is not just about being deliberate. An arm being in an unnatural position is also a factor.

Second paragraph.

FIFA Law 12:

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.

The following must be considered: • the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) • the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) • the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence


Therefore No penalty. VAR stinks!

Why were we all calling for a pen in the home leg of the play-off against Notts County when the ball hit Stead's arm in the penalty area?

Otis said:

Why were we all calling for a pen in the home leg of the play-off against Notts County when the ball hit Stead's arm in the penalty area?

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I was appealing for a City penalty when Davies stamped Stead, we appeal for everything.

If that pen had been given against England this afternoon I’d be fuming, if we’d appealled for it and not been given i’d say worth a short bit would have been harsh.

Watch the next incident like that not see the penalty given.

I_Saw_Shaw_Score said:

I was appealing for a City penalty when Davies stamped Stead, we appeal for everything.

If that pen had been given against England this afternoon I’d be fuming, if we’d appealled for it and not been given i’d say worth a short bit would have been harsh.

Watch the next incident like that not see the penalty given.

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Hmm....I thought we were all calling for penalty against Stead after the game when we saw the replay and highlights.

I am very much in the camp of it having to be deliberate, but can see why that one today was given and though it was harsh, I don't see it as an outrage or that controversial to be honest.

The direction of the ball is a factor I'm sure. Had the ball been heading away from goal I think it might well have not been given.

We have just been talking about overreaction on social media of stuff on the Maddison thread and here we go again here.

Someone on the BBC sports text has said that, that pen in the Denmark /Australia game was the softest penalty in footballing history.

Seriously? People seriously need to get a grip.

Why does any incident have to be the best ever, or worst ever, or this is the worst team ever and the worst we have ever played as a team?

Seriously folks, get a life.

21 games in, only 37 scored from open play and Russia have got 8 of them. Wing play in particular has been dismal so far. So often someone gets themselves into a decent position to ping a ball in and they either check back, lose possession or put it in row Z.

Otis said:

I am very much in the camp of it having to be deliberate, but can see why that one today was given and though it was harsh, I don't see it as an outrage or that controversial to be honest.

The direction of the ball is a factor I'm sure. Had the ball been heading away from goal I think it might well have not been given.

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I would be fine with it IF THE REF gave it during the game....but he didn't.....a panel of so called "experts" with 20 odd screens & the full Fifa law book at their disposal gave it........and got it wrong......THATS the problem. VAR is already out-ranking the ref.......pathetic.

jimmyhillsfanclub said:

I would be fine with it IF THE REF gave it during the game....but he didn't.....a panel of so called "experts" with 20 odd screens & the full Fifa law book at their disposal gave it........and got it wrong......THATS the problem. VAR is already out-ranking the ref.......pathetic.

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Hmm, I just saw it that the ref didn't see it properly. Simple as that.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

So I can stop the ball going in the net with my hand, so long as I am not looking at where my arm is, and I don't do it on purpose?

I don't think that's right to be honest. I also don't think (if the above is the genuine rule) that it is communicated enough. I've played in and seen games where those decisions were given.

Not having a go at you at all, I just find the whole thing a bit mental.

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It is. I have been calling for clarification for sometime.

The ones that are given when a ball is blasted at a player are quite ludicrous on occasion.

Yup.

He has to be bigger than that surely.

Otherwise what's the point of a 23 man squad?

jimmyhillsfanclub said:

I would be fine with it IF THE REF gave it during the game....but he didn't.....a panel of so called "experts" with 20 odd screens & the full Fifa law book at their disposal gave it........and got it wrong......THATS the problem. VAR is already out-ranking the ref.......pathetic.

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Surely like ‘umpires call’ in cricket football should be the same unless it’s clear and obvious mistake ? I.e. the man handling of Harry Kane.

Don't think they outranked him though anyway.

Isn't the VAR officials job to relay to the ref that he may wish to take a closer look at things?

The ref could still have not given the pen today. And if anyone says that is not realistic because of the pressure from the video refs, then we might as well have them just overrule the ref.

Otis said:

Don't think they outranked him though anyway.

Isn't the VAR officials job to relay to the ref that he may wish to take a closer look at things?

The ref could still have not given the pen today. And if anyone says that is not realistic because of the pressure from the video refs, then we might as well have them just overrule the ref.

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But they’re not and understandably so you’re being told by 4 equivalent officials that you need to check something, ie in their opinion they must think it’s the opposite of what you’ve awarded naturally you’ll be inclined to overturn

I_Saw_Shaw_Score said:

But they’re not and understandably so you’re being told by 4 equivalent officials that you need to check something, ie in their opinion they must think it’s the opposite of what you’ve awarded naturally you’ll be inclined to overturn

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Not so sure.

Surely the ref can have a look and see that nothing is different from how he saw it originally.

They are not saying he is wrong, they are saying it is worth having another look.

How was the French one now a handball?

My point is if they are saying he is wrong they should just overule him. They are not saying that though.

France struggling to get into the Peru half

Could have scored then. Peru look good until they get near the six yard box

I have money (virtual money) on a Peru win or a draw.

Thought Peru looked very good and were rather unlucky against Denmark and France do wobble at times.

Definitely worth a punt.

Apart from goal line technology Many other Decisions in football are about opinions rather than facts. Even with offside it is not always possible, due to camera angles etc, to say with 100% accuracy that a decision is right or wrong.
The handball today given to Australia shows why VAR is pointless; the referee waved play on, the Aussies didn’t really appeal but 4 people in a room with tv screens decided the ref needed to look again. You might as well have 4 posters off here to give their two pennyworth. As like as not you would get a divided opinion. A different four people would give you a different opinion. People who ask for consistency miss the point that it is all about opinion not certainty.
I always use the ‘CCFC test’ as to my opinion on a decision; if that handball had been given against us I would be very disappointed. If given for us I would give a wry smile and say ‘we were rather lucky but that’s football’. If given against us after VAR I would be livid that 4 faceless numpties gave it. And worse of all I couldn’t vent my anger at the ref: part of the football experience is surely letting the man in the middle know what you think of his decision making, dietary habits and parentage


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lifeskyblue said:

Apart from goal line technology Many other Decisions in football are about opinions rather than facts. Even with offside it is not always possible, due to camera angles etc, to say with 100% accuracy that a decision is right or wrong.
The handball today given to Australia shows why VAR is pointless; the referee waved play on, the Aussies didn’t really appeal but 4 people in a room with tv screens decided the ref needed to look again. You might as well have 4 posters off here to give their two pennyworth. As like as not you would get a divided opinion. A different four people would give you a different opinion. People who ask for consistency miss the point that it is all about opinion not certainty.
I always use the ‘CCFC test’ as to my opinion on a decision; if that handball had been given against us I would be very disappointed. If given for us I would give a wry smile and say ‘we were rather lucky but that’s football’. If given against us after VAR I would be livid that 4 faceless numpties gave it. And worse of all I couldn’t vent my anger at the ref: part of the football experience is surely letting the man in the middle know what you think of his decision making, dietary habits and parentage


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The VAR system should and can work in my opinion.

Needs to be for obvious errors. Today was not an obvious error and was very subjective.

Harry Kane's I would say was an obvious error.

Anything that is not clear cut should be left to the ref.

First case of mistaken identity and a yellow card being rescinded I've seen, very quickly as well. No idea how the ref got those two mixed up though!

Otis said:

The VAR system should and can work in my opinion.

Needs to be for obvious errors. Today was not an obvious error and was very subjective.

Harry Kane's I would say was an obvious error.

Anything that is not clear cut should be left to the ref.

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I see what you say but clearly the 4 in the VAR box didn’t have the same opinion as every English fan (and most neutrals) watching re the Kane incident(s). The trouble is what is a clear error by a ref for one person is not at all clear for another.


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