6 years ago (1 Viewer)

shy_tall_knight said:

6 November 2010 Coventry City 2–3 Leeds United [hide]Coventry
15:00 GMT Jutkiewicz 52'
Turner 64'
Carsley

54' (Report) Howson 5'
Snodgrass 40'
Gradel 61' (pen)
Collins

45'
Faye

55'
Brown

72'
Becchio

86' Stadium: Ricoh Arena
Attendance: 28,184
Referee: Keith Stroud

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Yes and if i.remember that game was hyped up.Front page news to get down there.

It was still with sisu in charge, they were still pricks. The council and anybody else people get annoyed about were still pricks.

It was still ccfc playing. Backs up what I'm getting at, it's still ccfc, we shouldn't be letting any of them get in the way of that.

You do stop and look at the likes of Southampton and Leicester who are similar sized clubs and we were all there or thereabouts in the prem back in the 90's so I totally get this thread however the issues during that time for us were behind the scenes and we were not aware of them. We all remember looking at these two clubs languishing in League One and thinking 'that would never happen to us' but sadly we have been fucked over twice by owners and are now in a much much position that S & L.

rupert_bear said:

We're not, ccfc is in our hearts and souls, but you keep quoting ccfc Nick they are Otium Entertainment a part of SISU and it's dictator Joy Sepalla, she tells Otium to jump they ask how high ?

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No, ccfc is us, ccfc is the badge, ccfc is the jsb volunteers, ccfc is people like deano with his millions of videos, Jim Brown. The same as it was before sisu and the same it will be after them.

Do we give seppalla credit for the kids having the time of their lives meeting the players? No, as its not her.

That's where I'm coming from, I'm not giving her credit when I say how great some things are at ccfc, it's in spite of her not because of her and others.

That's why I think we should be making people love ccfc again, not hate everybody else.

Of course, people will dislike them and want to protest and have their views but why people are angry gets so lost in it all.

Exactly. Oddly enough my boy is more interested in our 14 match unbeaten home record, star-to-be Stevenson in midfield and the JSB xmas party than he is who our owners are. All those things are CCFC to him and why he proudly wears his full Cov kit to every training session he goes to for his u8 team in Banbury.

MusicDating said:

Exactly. Oddly enough my boy is more interested in our 14 match unbeaten home record, star-to-be Stevenson in midfield and the JSB xmas party than he is who our owners are. All those things are CCFC to him and why he proudly wears his full Cov kit to every training session he goes to for his u8 team in Banbury.

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Just think that's the stuff we should be getting behind, wether you are angry at sisu,ccc or whoever we need to promote that as nobody can argue with it.

It brings fans together more!

It's not saying people can't be angry and have their views, it's just not forgetting why it bothers them.

Why does a thread showing kids having the time of their lives not get looked at? Why won't the local paper report stuff about the legacy fund?

Nobody is expecting a well done joy or tim for that.

Nick said:

Yes, but you keep saying that but it's baseless. People like the telegraph are spinning their shit day in day out.

Yes, I would love a new owner to come in tomorrow morning.

Just think that if fans are together and as a city we get some pride around ccfc it would certainly give that more of a chance.

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The Telegraph are in tune with the majority of the fan base, those that have an opinion anyway. I don't think you are.

Captain Dart said:

The Telegraph are in tune with the majority of the fan base, those that have an opinion anyway. I don't think you are.

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Are they? Why would they refuse to do an article on a decent bit of news? Why wouldn't they want to let people know they can buy a signed football or have their kids on the pitch and the money goes to charity?

I'd say they are in tune with what the agenda tells them to be in tune with.

The same way that more and more people are getting tired with the politics side of it. You can tell the way they are scraping the barrel for stories.

Just because they are saying things that people want to hear doesn't mean anything, why not let everybody know about the young kids doing cross bar challenges with their heroes?

Instead they make things up to promote boycotts.

I'm in tune as I've supported ccfc since birth, I can see people like last and bhsb getting fed up with the politics and the arguing. I can see people more angry at sisu then happy when ccfc win.

I've posted this before and will do it again as I worked at SFC when they went into administration when in L1 and when they were bought by Markus Liebherr.

Firstly, SFC didn't turn SISU down, SISU turned down SFC. Sisu wanted to purchase the club but the then directors of SFC at the time, wanted too much money for the club so the deal fell flat. This was documented in the local Soton rag, the Daily Echo, if anyone is interested in further reading.

There were rumours at the time of the takeover at SFC that Markus Liberherr who bought the club and subsequently set them on their path upwards, was after a large contract on the South Coast in terms of the marine and shipping infrastructure sector. There was a suggestion (not by me I hasten to add for legal reasons ;-) ) that he bought an ailing local football to heighten his chances of securing whatever piece of work he was after.

Whether this is true or not, I didn't look into it but I know that from the day they took over, they pumped millions into the club. Their academy has helped but in the first season, they signed the likes of Rickie Lambert from Bristol Rovers for something like £1m. How many L1 clubs spend £1m on a player? Their success is indeed part bought but to be fair, part based on the structure that the owners put in place.

Esoterica said:

WELL WEAR HAS THE MADISONN MONEY GONE?!!!

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It bought Joy a new outfit.

The money is helping the club run, what doesn't help is all the confusion about everything. All of the stuff about all the money going to sisu etc. It doesn't help does it? I saw one bloke asking if ticket money went to sisu or ccfc.

That's partly down to the shit communication, scare mongering and everything else.

Do we not think of sisu were pocketing all of the money it would have been headline news by now? It's the same as the using it as a tax loss stuff, I'm not an expert but I believe people who strongly dislike sisu and are experts when they say it's bollocks.

If people actually think ticket money is going straight to sisu what hope do we have? Why can't they see it pays the players wearing the shirt.

Two certainties

One. We are never going to achieve anything much under SISU, maybe fluke a season back in the championship is the best we can dream of. We certainly aren't going to emulate Southampton under them, or Swansea, or Burnley, or Bournemouth or anyone who is either a phoenix from the ashes or shoot above their weight due to investors willing to put the funds in and then run the club correctly to promote success. They have never proved to have either the backing, the acumen or the desire. For that reason alone they need shipping out and we should all be united on that.

Two. We won't know who is out there until she publicly says the club is for sale. No one was coming in for Villa, Wolves etc. until an interest to sell was publicly declared. At which point people come forward and sales were made. So yes, we absolutely have to keep the pressure on for SISU to declare that they are willing to sell the club. Can't see why any CCFC fan would have an issue with applying this pressure but here we are.

Nick said:

Yes and if i.remember that game was hyped up.Front page news to get down there.

It was still with sisu in charge, they were still pricks. The council and anybody else people get annoyed about were still pricks.

It was still ccfc playing. Backs up what I'm getting at, it's still ccfc, we shouldn't be letting any of them get in the way of that.

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I am told this was the actual date that sisu told the football board (ranson/hoffman etc) - that the ongoing additional investment was over, and they needed to sell to balance the books

skybluetony176 said:

Two certainties

One. We are never going to achieve anything much under SISU, maybe fluke a season back in the championship is the best we can dream of. We certainly aren't going to emulate Southampton under them, or Swansea, or Burnley, or Bournemouth or anyone who is either a phoenix from the ashes or shoot above their weight due to investors willing to put the funds in and then run the club correctly to promote success. They have never proved to have either the backing, the acumen or the desire. For that reason alone they need shipping out and we should all be united on that.

Two. We won't know who is out there until she publicly says the club is for sale. No one was coming in for Villa, Wolves etc. until an interest to sell was publicly declared. At which point people come forward and sales were made. So yes, we absolutely have to keep the pressure on for SISU to declare that they are willing to sell the club. Can't see why any CCFC fan would have an issue with applying this pressure but here we are.

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Nobody has an issue with SISU going out and some new owners coming in and us living happily ever after.

Some just realise making images of witches and shouting SISU sell up isn't going to make them sell anything. That isn't pro SISU, that's just realising how it is.

If there are people waiting and are serious, they can surely contact Seppalla and do things privately and professionally. Not via the front page of the paper every other week to try and prove a point.

rupert_bear said:

O hear what you are saying Nick and some of that transfer money will going to the running of the club but remember last season our gates were higher than what Waggott said we needed to break even, that figure changed ironically after the Maddison sale, as I see it little of that fee has gone towards player recruitment to help positively build on last seasons on field improvement and the result ? decline and the improved gates more or less halved so l believe us fans are right to protest and demand change

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Yes, but it doesn't all go on buying players as some will go towards the club. After Maddison went we bought players like Jones and Turnbull.

Do you not think that people are all over the accounts for example and if SISU were taking money out it would be all over the press? On here OSB seems to be saying they aren't. (That may change next year).

If people keep perceiving that going and supporting CCFC is backing SISU and Joy then no wonder people aren't arsed. If it's made out day in day out that my ticket money is buying Joy a handbag, it might put me off if I believe it.

All teams sell players, it is part of lower league football sadly. A lot of people can't / won't accept we are a L1 club. I don't like it, I'd prefer to be Champions League but it is still CCFC.

Nick said:

Nobody has an issue with SISU going out and some new owners coming in and us living happily ever after.

Some just realise making images of witches and shouting SISU sell up isn't going to make them sell anything. That isn't pro SISU, that's just realising how it is.

If there are people waiting and are serious, they can surely contact Seppalla and do things privately and professionally. Not via the front page of the paper every other week to try and prove a point.

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Not one piece of action in isolation is going to pressure SISU into selling, it's going to have to be a campaign fought on every possible angle. Problem with you Nick is that you seem incapable (whether that's through choice or ignorance, I don't know) of understanding is that the individual things you keep bringing up in isolation and put down is part of a bigger picture and campaign.

I love the way you say this "If there are people waiting and are serious, they can surely contact Seppalla" yet you think that CCC should have held SISU's hand every stage of the way into Ricoh ownership. I think that's called double standards. Surely if SISU were serious about buying the Ricoh, they can surely have contacted CCC instead of the charade of headlines that we went through challenging them to put the Ricoh on the market, them telling what they would do if they owned it by bringing AEG in to run it etc. yet they never put themselves in the frame to buy it. You seem to be saying it's one set of rules for SISU to buy the Ricoh and a completely different set of rules for SISU to sell CCFC. How about some consistency in opinion instead of giving SISU places to hide all the time? The only thing you seem to consistently do.

Pressure SISU into putting the club publicly on the market and let's see what happens. Why do you have such an issue with that?

skybluetony176 said:

Two. We won't know who is out there until she publicly says the club is for sale. No one was coming in for Villa, Wolves etc. until an interest to sell was publicly declared. At which point people come forward and sales were made. So yes, we absolutely have to keep the pressure on for SISU to declare that they are willing to sell the club. Can't see why any CCFC fan would have an issue with applying this pressure but here we are.

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No one is saying don't apply pressure, people are saying get on with it out of the media spotlight.

Also, I don't remember the Ricoh being 'publicly' put up for sale before someone came into buy it.

skybluetony176 said:

Two certainties

One. We are never going to achieve anything much under SISU, maybe fluke a season back in the championship is the best we can dream of. We certainly aren't going to emulate Southampton under them, or Swansea, or Burnley, or Bournemouth or anyone who is either a phoenix from the ashes or shoot above their weight due to investors willing to put the funds in and then run the club correctly to promote success. They have never proved to have either the backing, the acumen or the desire. For that reason alone they need shipping out and we should all be united on that.

Two. We won't know who is out there until she publicly says the club is for sale. No one was coming in for Villa, Wolves etc. until an interest to sell was publicly declared. At which point people come forward and sales were made. So yes, we absolutely have to keep the pressure on for SISU to declare that they are willing to sell the club. Can't see why any CCFC fan would have an issue with applying this pressure but here we are.

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By running a club correctly you endorse breaking FL rules then?

Grendel said:

By running a club correctly you endorse breaking FL rules then?

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They're more guidelines than rules aren't they? Or did we go to Northampton or return back to the Ricoh on a 10 year deal as stipulated in the FL rules?

Going by the minute detail you pulled up to criticize my post on I'm going to assume you're in complete agreement with the point i was actually making.

skybluetony176 said:

Not one piece of action in isolation is going to pressure SISU into selling, it's going to have to be a campaign fought on every possible angle. Problem with you Nick is that you seem incapable (whether that's through choice or ignorance, I don't know) of understanding is that the individual things you keep bringing up in isolation and put down is part of a bigger picture and campaign.

I love the way you say this "If there are people waiting and are serious, they can surely contact Seppalla" yet you think that CCC should have held SISU's hand every stage of the way into Ricoh ownership. I think that's called double standards. Surely if SISU were serious about buying the Ricoh, they can surely have contacted CCC instead of the charade of headlines that we went through challenging them to put the Ricoh on the market, them telling what they would do if they owned it by bringing AEG in to run it etc. yet they never put themselves in the frame to do it. You seem to be saying it's one set of rules for SISU to buy the Ricoh and a completely different set of rules for SISU to sell CCFC. How about some consistency in opinion instead of giving SISU places to hide all the time? The only thing you seem to consistently do.

Pressure SISU into putting the club publicly on the market and let's see what happens. Why do you have such an issue with that?

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It isn't part of a campaign though is it? Making witch pictures and shouting SISU go? It isn't going to do anything at all. It's all well and good back patting the telegraph because they shout SISU out but whats that achieving? Where is the plan for this campaign other than shouting sisu sell up?

My issue is that the reason people are getting so angry is getting lost amongst it all, agendas are kicking in more and more, actual good work like the Legacy Fund / Tifosy stuff gets lost, the jsb stuff gets lost in amongst it all. I said to Simon if he did a small article about the legacy fund in the telegraph, the stuff like buying a signed ball as an xmas present and the money goes to the JSB zone or deprived kids then Id buy a ball and donate it to the family zone (and buy his book) but not interested. Why is it not OK for them to write about that, but they can do articles about a starbucks xmas menu? This is what I mean about the agendas and things getting lost.

If people want to apply pressure then that's fine, make it pro ccfc pressure. Get all the fans united and the pressure will come it's self to everybody.

WestEndAgro said:

Perhaps we should start blaming Saints for everything like Sunderland do us lol

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Yes

No, on the contrary, it's a "fair play" to them. it's just always painful to think if saints said yes, where would we be now. Possibly worse off, possibly better off, we'll never know.

ccfc92 said:

Yes

No, on the contrary, it's a "fair play" to them. it's just always painful to think if saints said yes, where would we be now. Possibly worse off, possibly better off, we'll never know.

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Have a look at Weeman's post!

Nick said:

It isn't part of a campaign though is it? Making witch pictures and shouting SISU go? It isn't going to do anything at all. It's all well and good back patting the telegraph because they shout SISU out but whats that achieving? Where is the plan for this campaign other than shouting sisu sell up?

My issue is that the reason people are getting so angry is getting lost amongst it all, agendas are kicking in more and more, actual good work like the Legacy Fund / Tifosy stuff gets lost, the jsb stuff gets lost in amongst it all. I said to Simon if he did a small article about the legacy fund in the telegraph, the stuff like buying a signed ball as an xmas present and the money goes to the JSB zone or deprived kids then Id buy a ball and donate it to the family zone (and buy his book) but not interested. Why is it not OK for them to write about that, but they can do articles about a starbucks xmas menu? This is what I mean about the agendas and things getting lost.

If people want to apply pressure then that's fine, make it pro ccfc pressure. Get all the fans united and the pressure will come it's self to everybody.

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It is part of a campaign. You just don't want to be part of it so don't for what ever reason so fail to recognize it. Maybe you don't think that SISU should put the club on the market. That would certainly go a long way to explain your constant down putting of any trying to pressure change.

You them go of on something completely unrelated to the thread while ironically saying things are getting lost amongst it all while trying to cloud the issue being discussed with other issue's

skybluetony176 said:

It is part of a campaign. You just don't want to be part of it so don't for what ever reason so fail to recognize it. Maybe you don't think that SISU should put the club on the market. That would certainly go a long way to explain your constant down putting of any trying to pressure change.

You them go of on something completely unrelated to the thread while ironically saying things are getting lost amongst it all while trying to cloud the issue being discussed with other issue's

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What has gone on about being unrelated to the thread?

What campaign is it? What's the plan for the campaign?

So me saying that a silly awful photoshop of Joy on a poster isn't going to do shit is constantly putting things down for example? No, it is pointing out the obvious.

That's why I am saying fan unity should be a priority surely?

This thread shows a lot of what is wrong with football. Clubs like Southampton, Leicester and Bournemouth are held up as shining examples for us to follow yet they have all had millions pumped into them, money they didn't generate themselves and won't be able to repay.

shy_tall_knight said:

6 November 2010 Coventry City 2–3 Leeds United [hide]Coventry
15:00 GMT Jutkiewicz 52'
Turner 64'
Carsley

54' (Report) Howson 5'
Snodgrass 40'
Gradel 61' (pen)
Collins

45'
Faye

55'
Brown

72'
Becchio

86' Stadium: Ricoh Arena
Attendance: 28,184
Referee: Keith Stroud

Click to expand...

6k Leeds fans there that night IIRC

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

skybluetony176 said:

SISU should put the club on the market

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We'd all like new owners but lets not pretend it needs Joy to say the club is for sale for anyone interested to make an approach.

Simon Gilbert was pushing the same line recently, that the club needed to be publically marketed as for sale in order to generate the most interest. Didn't answer when I asked him if he thought the Council and Higgs should have done the same when selling ACL.

chiefdave said:

We'd all like new owners but lets not pretend it needs Joy to say the club is for sale for anyone interested to make an approach.

Simon Gilbert was pushing the same line recently, that the club needed to be publically marketed as for sale in order to generate the most interest. Didn't answer when I asked him if he thought the Council and Higgs should have done the same when selling ACL.

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People also keep saying how "people are waiting".

Get them in private to go and see her, not through the papers, not with the telegraph waiting outside to report everything said. If she isn't willing to sell with a realistic private offer then why is she going to come out publically and say it is for sale?

The season we were both in tbr champion we got relegated and Southampton got promoted.

Our entire turnover was £10.7m, Southampton's wage bill alone was around £28-30m.

Its very very unlikely we will ever get an owner who's willing to through in £50-60m+ in 2-3 seasons to push us forward under the current matchday only/little access to revenue model that we have had for the last decade.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Alright, let's suspend disbelief for a second and think about what could come after Sisu:

- Magical billionaire owner takes us to the Prem (unlikely)
- Yet another dodgy foreign owner/former car salesman takes over and we meet back here in 5 years (very likely)
- We attempt fan ownership of some description, let's look at that.

Firstly, it wouldn't be 100% fan ownership. A system where no-one can own a majority share in the club seems sensible, with a certain percentage (maybe 30% pulling a figure from my arse) fan owned in some respect (by A trust maybe). That leaves 70% to find buyers for, who wants to invest in a football club?

I think for a good chunk of that, you've got to look at local business. JLR and the like are the obvious choices (maybe along with some form of sponsorship), but I can't see them putting in a massive amount (if any at all). So you're talking about local SMEs with some kind of personal love for the club, your Joe Elliotts and the like. How many of them are likely to be about? Then you look at your celebrity fans who might want a bit of publicity and feel good factor and might have 5 figures to throw at it. We can count them on maybe one hairy hand. Then you're looking at normal fans to stump up some cash, maybe a membership fee, maybe fancy seats for an extra few hundred quid.

In terms of running things, you're looking at the German model basically. Aim for strong connections with local business, mass fan involvement through low ticket prices and some kind of elected "president" on maybe a 2-4 year term. A lot would depend on debt being at least deferred if not written off, but the current model of bringing through youth first is the right one and with sensible finances and hopefully increased fan patiences thanks to better transparency we might be able to spend within our means.

So it'd take a lot of ground work putting together a consortium and even more building the club as a sustainable business afterwards, do we have the fan leadership to accomplish that? Nothing we've seen so far suggests so, we've been in continual crisis for as long as I remember pretty much and no one has stepped forward.

So IMO fan ownership is the only hope to win the moral high ground and maybe force a deal out in the open, I think it's doable, but I doubt we have the resources to do it. Otherwise you are waiting for someone stupid enough to pay over the odds, or Joy to get bored.

I wonder how much Sisu would accept for the club. I came across all the paperwork for the 2007 takeover the other day. How quickly hope evaporated after that pack of lies! The whole club at that time was valued at £5.58. So if they sold it for a tenner they would still have made a decent return!

chiefdave said:

We'd all like new owners but lets not pretend it needs Joy to say the club is for sale for anyone interested to make an approach.

Simon Gilbert was pushing the same line recently, that the club needed to be publically marketed as for sale in order to generate the most interest. Didn't answer when I asked him if he thought the Council and Higgs should have done the same when selling ACL.

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Equally let's also not pretend that it won't hurt and also that it won't help flush any potential owners out if there are some. Like i said, no one was stepping forward to take over clubs like Villa or Wolves until the owners declared an interest to sell. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that someone might step forward given those very recent examples. Either way if no one does step up at least we'll know rather than happily (in some posters case) assume that there is no one.

Isn't the club in reality up for sale, putting it up for sale would be admitting defeat and effect SISU's ability to effectively negotiate (potential contradiction in terms) with WASPS etc..