A Prison of Measured Time...blog update (1 Viewer)

shmmeee · Oct 2, 2013

The Bear said:
I'm not Les so I can't really speak for him. What I am saying is that he's been getting pretty nasty abuse and some unfair criticism for doing his job. As a CCFC fan and sometime KCIC/NOPM protestor I want to know as much as possible and am not going to stick my head in the sand when it comes to opposing or alternative views and, from what I can see, Les is objecting to the 'shoot the messenger' approach of people who don't like to hear alternatives.

The problem with football politics is that certain people approach it with the same mentality as they do supporting their team; this is my side and this is where I will stay for life no matter what. Works well for being a supporter but horrible for having a debate about what's going on behind the scenes.

Les is the one doing the shooting I'm afraid.

Every comment of his ignores the points put forward and instead focusses on attacking the person putting it forward, whether that's the blogger, Michael or the chair of the Trust. Valid, sensible points about inaccuracies or omissions are raised and each time he responds with a personal insult. It's childish and proves the mettle of some on here that they trot out this idea that Les is doing a fine job and it's just because people don't want to hear what he found out. His actions as a journalist are inexcusable and his integrity in tatters because of it. That's all his doing, no-one else's.

Cheshire Sky Blue · Oct 2, 2013

PWKH said:
Cheshire

I was going back to edit the post: it was a shame that he was unable to use the statement that he had requested from ACL in his article on Friday. It would have helped him if he had wanted to put some balance in his piece. Rather than say that ACL was silent, which was what he wrote, he could have printed the statement which said that ACL was open to any business proposition that Otium wanted to put. He used it, sort of, in his account of the interview Seppala gave him, but he had re-written it for some reason, although he still used it within quotation marks. For the record this is what ACL had said: “ACL has always been prepared to negotiate a deal to allow the Sky Blues to play at the Ricoh Arena. We have made all the running thus far offering two very generous deals which were rejected by Sisu. We will now wait for the club to make their best offer to return to play in Coventry.”

PWKH, again thanks for the clarification. The question about impartiality is in part responded to in the statement that was not used I.e. “ACL has always been prepared to negotiate a deal to allow the Sky Blues to play at the Ricoh Arena. We have made all the running thus far offering two very generous deals which were rejected by Sisu. We will now wait for the club to make their best offer to return to play in Coventry.”
If Les had asked for a JS response to that and was told no comment I would have been OK. The fact that the report neither references it nor intimates a potential response just serves to indicate that he set out to portray a biased view. That's OK but he has got to man up and admit it otherwise any credibility will be lost forever (If there is any left)

Grendel · Oct 2, 2013

Cheshire Sky Blue said:
PWKH, again thanks for the clarification. The question about impartiality is in part responded to in the statement that was not used I.e. “ACL has always been prepared to negotiate a deal to allow the Sky Blues to play at the Ricoh Arena. We have made all the running thus far offering two very generous deals which were rejected by Sisu. We will now wait for the club to make their best offer to return to play in Coventry.”
If Les had asked for a JS response to that and was told no comment I would have been OK. The fact that the report neither references it nor intimates a potential response just serves to indicate that he set out to portray a biased view. That's OK but he has got to man up and admit it otherwise any credibility will be lost forever (If there is any left)

Your quote in bold is hardly from someone with an impartial view is it?

Cheshire Sky Blue · Oct 2, 2013

Grendel said:
Your quote in bold is hardly from someone with an impartial view is it?

Grendel, I think that was a bit of 'selective reading or interpretation' on your part. We all know who PWKH is, I was using the quote to contextualise the issue behind having data or evidence available and not using it to inform.
My guess here is that few of us are impartial, we all have our beliefs about what is right and wrong it this monumental cock up. The issue is, when we see evidence that supports these beliefs we us it, when we see evidence to suggest we might be wrong we have a tendency to ignore it. What irritates me is Les Reid claims to be impartial but clearly fails to use the evidence available to him that might suggest his theory is bollocks!
That's why the JS interview was such a wasted opportunity and came across as a SISU PR stunt.

RPHunt · Oct 2, 2013

There is a pertinent part of the last quote from PKWH:

"We will now wait for the club to make their best offer to return to play in Coventry.”

That is a clear invitation to Otium/SISU to either agree a lease with ACL or make an offer for the leasehold. As they have not accepted the invitation, one must assume that Joy Seppala is serious and that they are only interested in the freehold. In that case they would need to speak to Coventry City Council, the body that owns the freehold.

The leader of the council, Ann Lucas, has made two well publicised invitations to Ms Seppala to meet her for discussions. There has, as far as we know, been no response from Ms Seppala.

This was another missed opportunity by Les Reid. It would have been interesting to know why Ms Seppala ignored the invitations to talk to the leader of the council. However, the question seems never to have been asked or, if it was, the reply was considered unworthy of reporting.

Grendel · Oct 2, 2013

RPHunt said:
There is a pertinent part of the last quote from PKWH:

"We will now wait for the club to make their best offer to return to play in Coventry.”

That is a clear invitation to Otium/SISU to either agree a lease with ACL or make an offer for the leasehold. As they have not accepted the invitation, one must assume that Joy Seppala is serious and that they are only interested in the freehold. In that case they would need to speak to Coventry City Council, the body that owns the freehold.

The leader of the council, Ann Lucas, has made two well publicised invitations to Ms Seppala to meet her for discussions. There has, as far as we know, been no response from Ms Seppala.

This was another missed opportunity by Les Reid. It would have been interesting to know why Ms Seppala ignored the invitations to talk to the leader of the council. However, the question seems never to have been asked or, if it was, the reply was considered unworthy of reporting.

Why hasn't PWKH made the best offer to them? He could always write to them of he didn't want to talk to them.

What is the best offer? Why is he even on here?

Cheshire Sky Blue · Oct 2, 2013

Grendel said:
Why hasn't PWKH made the best offer to them? He could always write to them of he didn't want to talk to them.

What is the best offer? Why is he even on here?

Grendel you are either a numpty or a WUM. Your ability to select elements of posts and make ludicrous proclamations is marginally short of wondrous. If you could possible remember that the quote was “ACL has always been prepared to negotiate a deal to allow the Sky Blues to play at the Ricoh Arena. We have made all the running thus far offering two very generous deals which were rejected by Sisu. We will now wait for the club to make their best offer to return to play in Coventry." Because RPH selected a key element to emphasise an invitation, you feel that you can now WUM a response. You don't add much to the conversation do you? And why is it always negative or adversarial? Sad:facepalm:

blend · Oct 2, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
He's not, certainly not!

The media is never 'impartial', the media imparts a viewpoint for people to agree or disagree with. When conducting an interview it's arguably to filter the information given in a readable form...

But then he's done that, and see the abuse he gets for that!

he may as well come out with full-blown opinions!

...and people get annoyed when journos put across opinion and then pretend it not to be opinionated. Similar to our friend SLonhotAir who lurks about on here sometimes criticising us for being opinionated whilst spouting his own drivel. Journos opinions seem to come from a higher plain than ours. My own opinion is that I don't like his opinion, and I think I'm allowed to say that?!?

blend · Oct 2, 2013

Skybluesquirrel said:
Can you send me a link? I have published all comments received as far as i am aware - except the spam of course.

Not sure if this is the tweet? Or if this is even you or another blogger?

Les Reid ‏@Lesreidpolitics30 Sep
@tallison54 @russcov I also repeat blogger Richard Baskott's publicatn of repeated personal abuse & blocking fairer comments discredits him

Grendel · Oct 2, 2013

Cheshire Sky Blue said:
Grendel you are either a numpty or a WUM. Your ability to select elements of posts and make ludicrous proclamations is marginally short of wondrous. If you could possible remember that the quote was “ACL has always been prepared to negotiate a deal to allow the Sky Blues to play at the Ricoh Arena. We have made all the running thus far offering two very generous deals which were rejected by Sisu. We will now wait for the club to make their best offer to return to play in Coventry." Because RPH selected a key element to emphasise an invitation, you feel that you can now WUM a response. You don't add much to the conversation do you? And why is it always negative or adversarial? Sad:facepalm:

So Pwkh makes a series of statements and you accept them as fact. If he told you the world was flat you'd probably cancel a world cruise.

Here's a fact. We at the only club in a major city that is not playing in its own ground. The rent arrangement wrecked one board and has helped create a situation where the next owners leave. PWKH is involved in the management company that has precided over both these circumstances so in my view that makes him partly culpable. History will almost certainly view him that way and appearing on a friendly forum full of his happy clappy cheerleaders makes no difference.

letsallsingtogether · Oct 2, 2013

I believe man city also rent there ground?

As for PWKH is he not a city fan should he not be allowed to post on here because you don't like some of his post/replies.

I don't like yours and don't believe you are a City fan so why are you on here..................

Grendel said:
So Pwkh makes a series of statements and you accept them as fact. If he told you the world was flat you'd probably cancel a world cruise.

Here's a fact. We at the only club in a major city that is not playing in its own ground. The rent arrangement wrecked one board and has helped create a situation where the next owners leave. PWKH is involved in the management company that has precided over both these circumstances so in my view that makes him partly culpable. History will almost certainly view him that way and appearing on a friendly forum full of his happy clappy cheerleaders makes no difference.

Grendel · Oct 2, 2013

letsallsingtogether said:
I believe man city also rent there ground?

As for PWKH is he not a city fan should he not be allowed to post on here because you don't like some of his post/replies.

I don't like yours and don't believe you are a City fan so why are you on here..................

So you don't think I'm a city fan? Why? Because I would like a fair deal for the club after years of exploitation by ACL of which PWKH is I believe a shareholder?

Quoting man city seems odd? The fact it is the ONE council owned stadium that charged more than our initial rent agreement really says a lot about you.

More interested in a fair deal for the council and ACL - that's you isn't it. No wonder you stand on the hill with only a handful of others. Would you want CCFC to get the Ricoh for free? I would as I support the club . You I suspect wouldn't as you..,well lets be kind and say you'd be having the interests of other parties at heart.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 2, 2013

Grendel said:
So you don't think I'm a city fan? Why? Because I would like a fair deal for the club after years of exploitation by ACL of which PWKH is I believe a shareholder?

Quoting man city seems odd? The fact it is the ONE council owned stadium that charged more than our initial rent agreement really says a lot about you.

More interested in a fair deal for the council and ACL - that's you isn't it. No wonder you stand on the hill with only a handful of others. Would you want CCFC to get the Ricoh for free? I would as I support the club . You I suspect wouldn't as you..,well lets be kind and say you'd be having the interests of other parties at heart.

This from the person who :thinking about:when was the last time you really shall we say questioned Sisu you know the people who moved us to Northampton,relegated us to the third division,have us playing in front of 2000 people,who bullied CCFC shareholders into handing over their shares,who knew what the rent was, who didn't buy a share of the Ricoh when they could have etc etc etc. You don't support the club you support Sisu that is obvious because you can't help yourself. The club is in a critical position at present if these monsters get their hands on the Ricoh then it will be time for the burial. You carry on and if they do get their hands on it you can always say at the funeral "Well I never expected them to do that to the club sorry"

Grendel · Oct 2, 2013

Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
This from the person who :thinking about:when was the last time you really shall we say questioned Sisu you know the people who moved us to Northampton,relegated us to the third division,have us playing in front of 2000 people,who bullied CCFC shareholders into handing over their shares,who knew what the rent was, who didn't buy a share of the Ricoh when they could have etc etc etc. You don't support the club you support Sisu that is obvious because you can't help yourself. The club is in a critical position at present if these monsters get their hands on the Ricoh then it will be time for the burial. You carry on and if they do get their hands on it you can always say at the funeral "Well I never expected them to do that to the club sorry"

So if sisu own the club you'd prefer they stay in Northampton?

skybluetony176 · Oct 2, 2013

Grendel said:
So if sisu own the club you'd prefer they stay in Northampton?

so if fish was called goat you wouldn't have bought any marillion albums?

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Oct 2, 2013

Grendel said:
So if sisu own the club you'd prefer they stay in Northampton?

No I prefer them to go and I think that some time in the not too distant future they will go

Cheshire Sky Blue · Oct 2, 2013

Grendel said:
So Pwkh makes a series of statements and you accept them as fact. If he told you the world was flat you'd probably cancel a world cruise.

Here's a fact. We at the only club in a major city that is not playing in its own ground. The rent arrangement wrecked one board and has helped create a situation where the next owners leave. PWKH is involved in the management company that has precided over both these circumstances so in my view that makes him partly culpable. History will almost certainly view him that way and appearing on a friendly forum full of his happy clappy cheerleaders makes no difference.

And you Grendel, as the judge of all things true, do not do the same for JS and SISU. Your argument may be valid, but the fact that you take a deeply one sided view makes you no better. I, as many on here, feel very strongly about CCC and ACL and their involvement in CCFC. I regard their involvement and some of their subsequent actions as deeply regrettable. They should not have got involved. But at the time with the evidence available I felt it was for the better and for the future of my beloved club. Then SISU came along. Now in my view, two wrongs don't make a right, but SISU and the unethical practices they have used massively out way any wrong the CCC & ACL have done.
And as for being one of PWKH's 'happy Clappy cheerleaders' I don't know the guy, but until he proves to be a dick, I will acknowledge his valid input. I feel less inclined towards yours.

lewys33 · Oct 3, 2013

I see Grendel has really grown up lately

Anyway CSB summed it up perfectly. When you have a point of view, statements which help your point of view are taken on board, statements which don't are generally ignored. We have all been guilty of this from time to time, but lately I have tried to be as impartial as possible. Grendel you clearly find this impossible.

PWKH has the decency to come on this forum, start threads and reply to people's questions. Total respect for him. Nobody else does that?

What is the point of constantly going on about who is to blame? Get over it! The reality of it is we are where we are. I'm not going to throw stuff back at Grendel (as tempting as it is) because it is all in the past. In all honesty I don't think anything will get resolved, however ACL have basically invited JS to "make her best offer". Let's see what happens. Unfortunately all we can do as fans is just sit back and ride it out.

RPHunt · Oct 3, 2013

It does amuse me that people can go on about about the rent agreement bleeding the club dry or even wrecking boards.

The simple fact is that SISU paid Ricoh outgoings for little more than 4 years yet have managed to clock up additional debt of over £45m while reducing the depth and quality of the playing squad. Time to get some perspective.

A Prison of Measured Time...blog update (1 Viewer)

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