A question for the Sky Blue Trust. (3 Viewers)

Philosoraptor · Aug 15, 2013

Philosorapter said:
Would the Trust ever support or put to its members a vote to start a phoenix club?

If yes,

What time-frame would you give the SISU related companies, to return Coventry City to Coventry before this goes on the agenda?

TurkeyTrot said:
The simple answer is yes. Time frame would be decided by the fans / members of the trust.
But let's not give up on CCFC just yet

ashbyjan said:
As has been stated we have explored the possibility for a phoenix club if CCFC was ever liquidated and a new club had to be formed. As things stand we are focused totally on getting the team back to its home - Coventry In Coventry. Should in the future either SISU liquidate the club or it is crystal clear they have no plans to come back then we would put plans into operation but as long as there is a CCFC we will concentrate on that.

Whilst I fully agree with the position taken by the Sky Blue Trust, I would just like you to clarify your position here with regards to liquidation and time-frame. Whilst every effort must be made to put pressure on the SISU related companies to return Coventry City to Coventry, there must be a red line, which should this be crossed, triggers a members vote to start a 'phoenix club'.

1. 'if CCFC was ever liquidated' - Do you mean CCFC Ltd here, or the club as a whole?

2. How would it be 'crystal clear' that the SISU related companies 'have no plans to come back' and return Coventry City to Coventry?

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

I am a member of the trust and have mainly supported their ideas and initiatives, but this is simple prevarication and must stop.

OUR CLUB IS GONE. There are no if, buts or maybes here. CCFC is a Northampton based club, not a Coventry based club. This became certain when the referee blew the whistle to start the game at Sixfields. There is no way back, and holding out false hope that we as fans can now do anything to sway SISU is avoiding facing the facts. Our club is gone. Get over it and get on with planning the future. The future is a Phoenix club run by the fans. Not SISU and Fisher, not Hoffman and Elliot, not HP4, not the Chinese or any more financiers or goons or local multimillionaires who get out when the going gets rough.
Start at the bottom if the Football League's stupidity does not permit us to start higher up. It really does not matter for the long term as long as we start right now.

Those of you that can not tear yourselves away from going to Sixfields; fine, go to Sixfields, but do not presume then that you have any say about starting a Phoenix club. Those of you that say you could never support "another" club; fine, your choice, but do not presume then that you have any say about starting a Phoenix club. Those of you that say that you would be prepared to support a Phoenix club, but only if CCFC no longer exists; fine, your choice, but do not presume then that you have any say about starting a Phoenix club.
In other words, if you do not support the idea of a Phoenix club, then do not presume that you have any say or choice in whether or not a Phoenix club is founded.

To the Trust I say, a vote needs to be taken right now; in fact, as a member I demand a vote be taken at the very earliest possible time on whether the Trust will head this up or whether the Trust will not be involved in such an undertaking at this time, and if the vote is a majority "no", then in such case the Trust should not presume that it will have any say or choice in whether or not a Phoenix club is founded, nor any active involvement at a later date in the club should the foundation of the Phoenix club be successful, because the Phoenix club would of course have its own Trust and fan base, of which all you dissenters will have no say in. You may well decide at a later date that you want to switch your support to the Phoenix club if/when at a future date you change your minds depending on circumstances with SISU/CCFC but you will have missed the boat where having a share in the Phoenix club is concerned.

I reiterate, those of you that do not want a Phoenix club really do not have a say in whether or not a Phoenix club is founded. You will then be supporters of a different club that plays in Northampton, not a Coventry club.

bigfatronssba · Aug 15, 2013

I think the trust should make a statement saying that unless within the next 6 months we see concrete evidence of a return to Coventry (ie land bought, planning permission seemed, plans of new stadium) then a new club will be set up starting in the 2014/15 season, and as far as the majority of supporters are concerned, this new club will be the sky blues.

Grendel · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
I am a member of the trust and have mainly supported their ideas and initiatives, but this is simple prevarication and must stop.

OUR CLUB IS GONE. There are no if, buts or maybes here. CCFC is a Northampton based club, not a Coventry based club. This became certain when the referee blew the whistle to start the game at Sixfields. There is no way back, and holding out false hope that we as fans can now do anything to sway SISU is avoiding facing the facts. Our club is gone. Get over it and get on with planning the future. The future is a Phoenix club run by the fans. Not SISU and Fisher, not Hoffman and Elliot, not HP4, not the Chinese or any more financiers or goons or local multimillionaires who get out when the going gets rough.
Start at the bottom if the Football League's stupidity does not permit us to start higher up. It really does not matter for the long term as long as we start right now.

Those of you that can not tear yourselves away from going to Sixfields; fine, go to Sixfields, but do not presume then that you have any say about starting a Phoenix club. Those of you that say you could never support "another" club; fine, your choice, but do not presume then that you have any say about starting a Phoenix club. Those of you that say that you would be prepared to support a Phoenix club, but only if CCFC no longer exists; fine, your choice, but do not presume then that you have any say about starting a Phoenix club.
In other words, if you do not support the idea of a Phoenix club, then do not presume that you have any say or choice in whether or not a Phoenix club is founded.

To the Trust I say, a vote needs to be taken right now; in fact, as a member I demand a vote be taken at the very earliest possible time on whether the Trust will head this up or whether the Trust will not be involved in such an undertaking at this time, and if the vote is a majority "no", then in such case the Trust should not presume that it will have any say or choice in whether or not a Phoenix club is founded, nor any active involvement at a later date in the club should the foundation of the Phoenix club be successful, because the Phoenix club would of course have its own Trust and fan base, of which all you dissenters will have no say in. You may well decide at a later date that you want to switch your support to the Phoenix club if/when at a future date you change your minds depending on circumstances with SISU/CCFC but you will have missed the boat where having a share in the Phoenix club is concerned.

I reiterate, those of you that do not want a Phoenix club really do not have a say in whether or not a Phoenix club is founded. You will then be supporters of a different club that plays in Northampton, not a Coventry club.

I vote for a Phoenix Club. Then you can piss off and leave real supporters to talk about CCFC.

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

Grendel said:
I vote for a Phoenix Club. Then you can piss off and leave real supporters to talk about CCFC.

I have obviously been away from this forum for too long and little Grenduffy is getting all brave again. Silly boy that you are Grendel, you misunderstand almost everything anyone else posts on this forum and just attack and deride. You really have to be one of the most pathetic forum posters I have ever had the misfortune to come across.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

Our club is not gone, the same as Brighton, Bristol Rovers, Charlton, Rotherham etc are not gone.

Surprised how many seem willing to give up the fight so quickly tbh.

Grendel · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
I have obviously been away from this forum for too long and little Grenduffy is getting all brave again. Silly boy that you are Grendel, you misunderstand almost everything anyone else posts on this forum and just attack and deride. You really have to be one of the most pathetic forum posters I have ever had the misfortune to come across.

"Getting all brave again"? This is hardly a war and you are hardly an adversary. Don't flatter yourself. Go and munch on a Toblerone.

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
Our club is not gone, the same as Brighton, Bristol Rovers, Charlton, Rotherham etc are not gone.

Surprised how many seem willing to give up the fight so quickly tbh.

Firstly, you are obviously wrong with this statement. The club is quite obviously gone - it is playing in Northampton. Why would you falsely claim it is not gone?
Secondly, it is - according to all statements made by Fisher, SISU, the Football League (and even ignoring dear Joy's verbal threat that the only way CCFC will ever play at the Ricoh again will be when she gets it at her price), gone for a minimum of THREE YEARS and up to FIVE YEARS. This is SISU's agreement with the Football League, so why would you falsely claim it is not gone?
Given that even the head of the Football League admits he has no idea about any potential plans for SISU to build a stadium, it is entirely likely that the move out of Coventry will be permanent - all for the paltry sum of just one million (which, by the way, SISU have not paid and will not be required to pay for at least five years, and maybe never!), so why would you falsely claim that our club is not gone?

I do not understand you. You, like certain others, claim you want to "be reasonable" and "see both sides of the story" etc. And yet, when confronted with a fait accompli, you totally ignore it and pretend it has not happened, and try to pretend that our situation is like Brighton, Bristol, Charlton, Rotherham etc. and refuse to accept that in reality we are like Wimbledon and not at all like those other clubs. That is not being reasonable or even-handed, that is ignoring uncomfortable facts that you don't want to accept.
OUR CLUB HAS LEFT COVENTRY!

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

Grendel said:
"Getting all brave again"? This is hardly a war and you are hardly an adversary. Don't flatter yourself. Go and munch on a Toblerone.

Silly, pathetic cretin that you are, I will from now on do my best to totally ignore your sad existence.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
Firstly, you are obviously wrong with this statement.

I'm obviously not.

Grappa · Aug 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'm obviously not.

To the Trust I say, a vote needs to be taken right now; in fact, as a member I demand a vote be taken at the very earliest possible time on whether or not Northern Wisdom is obviously wrong.

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'm obviously not.

Then explain how we are still in Coventry please? We are not in Coventry, we are in Northampton. You are talking indefensible rubbish.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
Then explain how we are still in Coventry please? We are not in Coventry, we are in Northampton. You are talking indefensible rubbish.

Who said anything about being in Coventry?

Iif however you're talking about a phoenix club, you clearly mean a replacement club rising from the ashes after the old club dies.

The old club has not died.

So, no phoenix club.

If you would rather support a rival club, then Coventry Sphinx would undoubtedly love some more support.

I put it to you sir, that you are the one spouting contradictory nonsense.

mark82 · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
I have obviously been away from this forum for too long and little Grenduffy is getting all brave again. Silly boy that you are Grendel, you misunderstand almost everything anyone else posts on this forum and just attack and deride. You really have to be one of the most pathetic forum posters I have ever had the misfortune to come across.

He does seem to have a thing for you.

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
Who said anything about being in Coventry?

Iif however you're talking about a phoenix club, you clearly mean a replacement club rising from the ashes after the old club dies.

The old club has not died.

So, no phoenix club.

If you would rather support a rival club, then Coventry Sphinx would undoubtedly love some more support.

I put it to you sir, that you are the one spouting contradictory nonsense.

No, you have totally failed to understand what I have said. I quite clearly said that if some of us want to start a Phoenix club, then people like yourself who do not want to support another club have no say in whether or not a new club is formed. Quite clearly we are talking about a replacement club to replace the club that SISU have taken away from us and have taken out of Coventry for a minimum of three to five years, and perhaps forever. You then try to link our club to other clubs that have left their homes in totally different circumstances to ours and refuse to accept that our position is very close to that of Wimbledon.
You also need to recognise in that reasonable and fair-minded manner of yours that those of us calling for a Phoenix club do not perceive it to be a rival club. We perceive it as a replacement to the club that has been taken away from us, and to us this Phoenix club will be CCFC with all its history, just as AFC Wimbledon is to all of its true fans.
So as I said, if you cannot accept this, then you cannot of course have any say as to whether a new club is formed, just as Milton Keynes supporters had no right to any say in whether AFC Wimbledon was formed.
Our club has left Coventry. Some of us believe it will never come back, and we want to rebuild our club. You decide to continue following the SISU-owned club, just as some Wimbledon fans continued to support a club that was no longer Wimbledon. They, like you, have every right to make that choice. But they, like you, have no say in any phoenix club that may be formed to replace the club taken away from us.
Quite clearly for us SISU-owned CCFC playing at home in Northampton means the club is in fact dead for all intents and purposes. You do not accept that; fine, but do not try and force me to accept your position which I find to be totally wrong.
So we agree to disagree, and from that disagreement our Phoenix club - about which you have no say if you are not prepared to recognise it as such - will arise from the ashes of the club that is to our perceptions dead from the moment that whistle blew at Sixfields.
You can be as reasonable and fair-minded as you want, but there is no argument here. This is the position of some of the fans, which stand in direct opposition to other fans like yourself. That's democracy for you!

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
And yet, when confronted with a fait accompli, you totally ignore it and pretend it has not happened, and try to pretend that our situation is like Brighton, Bristol, Charlton, Rotherham etc. and refuse to accept that in reality we are like Wimbledon and not at all like those other clubs.

Brighton didn't play on Brighton for years(Gillingham), Bristol Rovers(Bath), Rotherham(Sheffield), Charlton(Crystal Palace and West Ham).

Exactly like those other clubs.

Must be the ticking of all those cuckoo clocks driving you crazy.

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

mark82 said:
He does seem to have a thing for you.

The simple-minded Troll seems to spend day and night waiting for me to post, and when I finally make a post after bein away from the forum for weeks, he is in there instantly with an attacking snide remark, as he is to many others.
He really is a sad and pathetic little moronic Troll.

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
Brighton didn't play on Brighton for years(Gillingham), Bristol Rovers(Bath), Rotherham(Sheffield), Charlton(Crystal Palace and West Ham).

Exactly like those other clubs.

Must be the ticking of all those cuckoo clocks driving you crazy.

I know you enjoy provoking people, so I am not going to bite. I will leave it by saying you must know that that is not the case and that the SISU/Ricoh situation is very different from any one of those instances, but I really cannot be bothered arguing any more.
The simple fact is, if you don't agree with a Phoenix club, then don't be involved and don't bother to think you have any rights where a Phoenix club is involved.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
No, you have totally failed to understand what I have said. I quite clearly said that if some of us want to start a Phoenix club, then people like yourself who do not want to support another club have no say in whether or not a new club is formed.

Given you said:

Those of you that can not tear yourselves away from going to Sixfields; fine, go to Sixfields, but do not presume then that you have any say about starting a Phoenix club.

Why would I have no say?

Grendel · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
Then explain how we are still in Coventry please? We are not in Coventry, we are in Northampton. You are talking indefensible rubbish.

Stop making a twat of yourself.

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
I know you enjoy provoking people, so I am not going to bite. I will leave it by saying you must know that that is not the case and that the SISU/Ricoh situation is very different from any one of those instances, but I really cannot be bothered arguing any more.
The simple fact is, if you don't agree with a Phoenix club, then don't be involved and don't bother to think you have any rights where a Phoenix club is involved.

How is it different particularly?

When they suggest calling us Northampton Sky Blues, then it will be, right now it isn't.

I'm not ready to give up on a club i've supported nearly 40 years, with a 130 years of history because some twats have been running the club for last 10-15 years or so.

There were many wanting to kill Jimmy Hill when he was Chairman for bringing us to the brink of ruin in the 70's as well, they didn't give up then either.

If you lack the backbone to support the club, then take your tears to AFC Shitty City or whoever, but don't fucking come back.

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

North, this is getting ridiculous.
You say that for you there can be no Phoenix club until CCFC has died, and therefore you do not support a Phoenix club. You then ask why I think you should not have a say if others want to form a Phoenix club now because CCFC is dead for them now?
I think you are more intelligent than that. If I decide tomorrow to start the foundation of a new club called Coventry Phoenix 1883, we come to an arrangement with the Ricoh to play there as we work our way rapidly up the leagues and we play in sky blue at home at the Ricoh, that is my choice, and the choice of others like-minded. If you are against the idea because a SISU-owned football club playing home games in Northampton is still your club and you don't accept that a replacement is necessary "yet", what possible say have you got in our actions? Absolutely none is the answer. You can say to others until you are blue in the face that you do not agree with this action and that for you this is not your club until CCFC dies, but so what? We have no onus whatsoever to listen to your comments - they are meaningless to us. To us, you have no say in our actions or in our Phoenix club. You can complain all you like, you can disagree all you like, but you will still have no say if this is your position.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
North, this is getting ridiculous.
You say that for you there can be no Phoenix club until CCFC has died, and therefore you do not support a Phoenix club. You then ask why I think you should not have a say if others want to form a Phoenix club now because CCFC is dead for them now?

The club is not dead.

Any club now would be a rival club.

There are some of those (such as Coventry Sphinx) to support now.

You want to form a new rival club go ahead, but it will not be a phoenix club.

We have no onus whatsoever to listen to your comments - they are meaningless to us.

I don't fancy supporting SISU Mk 2, not listening to fans and bullying a decision through regardless.

What gives you the right to decide it would be a phoenix club, when it wouldn't.

mark82 · Aug 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
Given you said:

Why would I have no say?

Obvious really. You don't want to be involved so when it happens you won't be. If you want to be involved you will pay your membership and will be.

Think what he means is that you saying no won't stop it happening.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

mark82 said:
Obvious really. You don't want to be involved so when it happens you won't be. If you want to be involved you will pay your membership and will be.

Think what he means is that you saying no won't stop it happening.

Ah, so you're deciding I don't want to be involved... because I agree 100% with the Trust's position?

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

Let's remind ourselves of the Trust's position by the way.

i assume if I have no right to get involved, they don't either, according to some?

ashbyjan said:
As has been stated we have explored the possibility for a phoenix club if CCFC was ever liquidated and a new club had to be formed. As things stand we are focused totally on getting the team back to its home - Coventry In Coventry. Should in the future either SISU liquidate the club or it is crystal clear they have no plans to come back then we would put plans into operation but as long as there is a CCFC we will concentrate on that.

SkyBlueSwiss · Aug 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
How is it different particularly?

When they suggest calling us Northampton Sky Blues, then it will be, right now it isn't.

I'm not ready to give up on a club i've supported nearly 40 years, with a 130 years of history because some twats have been running the club for last 10-15 years or so.

There were many wanting to kill Jimmy Hill when he was Chairman for bringing us to the brink of ruin in the 70's as well, they didn't give up then either.

If you lack the backbone to support the club, then take your tears to AFC Shitty City or whoever, but don't fucking come back.

And there are many that feel that Jimmy Hill's actions as head of the players union to get rid of the maximum wage in football has led directly to the financial mess that world football is in today and that has led Coventry exactly to where we are now. Karma is a bitch, aint it? You want to disagree with this statement, go ahead. It is my opinion that the one thing led to another and was instrumental in our club being where we are now. Or do you genuinely believe that ignorant teenagers should be earning the wages they do and acting the way many of them do when so many "normal" people slave all their lives to raise kids and feed their families? Me, I think it has got out of all proportion and it is disgusting. Perhaps this is why I do not fear a new club, owned by fans, starting at the very bottom of the football ladder with a clean slate and sensible management.

mark82 · Aug 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
The club is not dead.

Any club now would be a rival club.

There are some of those (such as Coventry Sphinx) to support now.

You want to form a new rival club go ahead, but it will not be a phoenix club.

I don't fancy supporting SISU Mk 2, not listening to fans and bullying a decision through regardless.

What gives you the right to decide it would be a phoenix club, when it wouldn't.

What gives you the right to decide it wouldn't be?

The fact of the matter is it would be a team for Coventry City fans to support (and by that I mean attend games) as there currently isn't one. This argument is pointless. Neither of you will change your opinion and neither of those opinions is wrong, so just agree to disagree.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

mark82 said:
What gives you the right to decide it wouldn't be?

Well...

the fact that it would not be a phoenix club, it would be a rival club, perhaps.

Vedere · Aug 15, 2013

JH may have brought the club to the 'brink' but he didn't bring it out of Coventry!

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

mark82 said:
The fact of the matter is it would be a team for Coventry City fans to support (and by that I mean attend games) as there currently isn't one.

There is, Coventry Sphinx.

mark82 · Aug 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
Let's remind ourselves of the Trust's position by the way.

i assume if I have no right to get involved, they don't either, according to some?

Everyone has a right to be involved if they want to. Jan obviously does not. That is his personal opinion not the trusts. He can only speak on behalf of the trust after there has been a member vote.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

mark82 said:
Everyone has a right to be involved if they want to. Jan obviously does not.

So, you want to push through your agenda and not listen to anybody who disagrees.

A great start for a democratic club, that.

And let's ignore the Trust view until it agrees with us.

This is all sounding rather sinister and dictatorial tbh and no, i want no truck with dictators.

mark82 · Aug 15, 2013

Deleted member 5849 said:
There is, Coventry Sphinx.

Sphinx is for Sphinx fans. Are you really that dumb that you don't get that simple point.

lordsummerisle · Aug 15, 2013

SkyBlueSwiss said:
And there are many that feel that Jimmy Hill's actions as head of the players union to get rid of the maximum wage in football has led directly to the financial mess that world football is in today and that has led Coventry exactly to where we are now. Karma is a bitch, aint it? You want to disagree with this statement, go ahead. It is my opinion that the one thing led to another and was instrumental in our club being where we are now. Or do you genuinely believe that ignorant teenagers should be earning the wages they do and acting the way many of them do when so many "normal" people slave all their lives to raise kids and feed their families? Me, I think it has got out of all proportion and it is disgusting. Perhaps this is why I do not fear a new club, owned by fans, starting at the very bottom of the football ladder with a clean slate and sensible management.

I agree with you on most of that, but would like to try it out with the team we already have(with no connection to current or prior management) first.

If the club ceases to exist, then fair enough, until it doesn't then I'd rather for the club we have to do that(without fans demanding we sign loads of players on "only "£10,000" a week of course).

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