A Reminder to ACL... (1 Viewer)

Your name doesn't really go with that statement you have just written.

Kick CCFC out and invite another sport in to take then tenancy.....They have rent.

CCFC are NOT the be all and end all.

Not really much reasoning going on there matey.

Rich said:

Kick CCFC out and invite another sport in to take then tenancy.....They have rent.

CCFC are NOT the be all and end all.

Not really much reasoning going on there matey.

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Which sport and team?

Not really anybody in Rugby Union with the crowds and resources to pay for the Ricoh.

lordsummerisle said:

Which sport and team?

Not really anybody in Rugby Union with the crowds and resources to pay for the Ricoh.

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Welford Road has a capacity of 24,000. Pretty sure a team like that would suit the Ricoh.

Just throwing it out there, that there are other options.

Voice_of_Reason said:

Kick CCFC and you have NO rent

Continue charging the existing rent and CCFC will go bust --- you will have NO rent.

Make your mind up ACL -- half a loaf (or 1/4 loaf) is better than no loaf!

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ACL have offered a 67% rent reduction plus match day income. Which CCFC/SISU have declined. I'm not sure if it's them that need to make up their mind.

Voice_of_Reason said:

Kick CCFC and you have NO rent

Continue charging the existing rent and CCFC will go bust --- you will have NO rent.

Make your mind up ACL -- half a loaf (or 1/4 loaf) is better than no loaf!

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Yep, but its not 1/4 of a loaf..

Current rent is £1.2 million, SISU want rent of 150k

Any chance you would happily accept a 90% reduction in wage, or would you start to look for a suitable alternative income stream ?

Rich said:

Welford Road has a capacity of 24,000. Pretty sure a team like that would suit the Ricoh.

Just throwing it out there, that there are other options.

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Rich,

Not trying to diss you, but Welford road is the home of the Leicester Tigers, and the clue is in the name, Leicester, which is where they want to be.
They dont always fill their ground, but it is their ground so why would they move as tenants to a larger stadium out of their town when a) It would upset a majority of their fans b) they could move to the crisp bowel if they wanted a larger ground c) why would anyone move to a ground as a tenant from one they own after looking at the current Ricoh ACL/CCFC debacle?

This then rules out the Tigers so who else? Not the Northampton Saints for the same reason above, and for the fact they have just got planning permission to extend their ground.

After this i am devoid of any ideas of who could move in and be able to pay ACL a sustainable rent whilst maintiaing crowds to be able to afford it.

All parties in this has vested interests and I wish they would settle it for the sake of us the fans who are the long suffering ones in this mess.

Rich said:

Welford Road has a capacity of 24,000. Pretty sure a team like that would suit the Ricoh.

Just throwing it out there, that there are other options.

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Wouldn't they be more likely to ground share with Leicester FC?

Moff said:

Rich,

Not trying to diss you, but Welford road is the home of the Leicester Tigers, and the clue is in the name, Leicester, which is where they want to be.
They dont always fill their ground, but it is their ground so why would they move as tenants to a larger stadium out of their town when a) It would upset a majority of their fans b) they could move to the crisp bowel if they wanted a larger ground c) why would anyone move to a ground as a tenant from one they own after looking at the current Ricoh ACL/CCFC debacle?

This then rules out the Tigers so who else? Not the Northampton Saints for the same reason above, and for the fact they have just got planning permission to extend their ground.

After this i am devoid of any ideas of who could move in and be able to pay ACL a sustainable rent whilst maintiaing crowds to be able to afford it.

All parties in this has vested interests and I wish they would settle it for the sake of us the fans who are the long suffering ones in this mess.

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I don't know who would be an ideal sport to replace Soccer, just throwing it out there that Rugby teams do have grounds a similar size to the Ricoh. As I said CCFC are not the be all and end all.

Rich said:

I don't know who would be an ideal sport to replace Soccer, just throwing it out there that Rugby teams do have grounds a similar size to the Ricoh. As I said CCFC are not the be all and end all.

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Leicester haver about the highest average crowd in the Rugby Premiership of 20,000.

Why would they move out of a ground they own to rent one 20 miles away?

This is nonsense. There aren't homeless teams with large followings waiting to take up a tenancy at a 32K seater stadium willing to match ACLs rent demands.

It's us or no-one.

Rich said:

Kick CCFC out and invite another sport in to take then tenancy.....They have rent.

CCFC are NOT the be all and end all.

Not really much reasoning going on there matey.

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ACL arent getting paid any rent, havent been for 10 months .......... so any rent that ACL is able to generate is a positive to their cashflow ......... thing is at the lower levels that are being suggested then it doesnt have to be CCFC, it could be multiple tenants or events for example. ACL's problem isnt the rent level as such it is the damage done to its cashflow by CCFC not paying anything at all.

People forget that ACL will have invested further in the stadium to the benefit of all of its tenants based on the expectation of rent from CCFC, SISU know this and are stretching things out as long as they can to try to further distress ACL cashflow. Wonder why that might be?

Curious the perception that it is ACL dragging their feet, but we all have differing opinions as to what is actually going on. I note that TF doesnt like the fact that ACL deal with things via written communication ...... when this is all done it would be interesting to see what was communicated and when :thinking about:

really not about the rent or the club but there you go :thinking about:

Rich said:

Kick CCFC out and invite another sport in to take then tenancy.....They have rent.

CCFC are NOT the be all and end all.

Not really much reasoning going on there matey.

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Thing is we ARE the BE ALL and END ALL.

No one in the area can afford to move in! Cov Sphinx? Cov RFC? Nuneaton? Leamington? No will any rugby clubs move in? No, the 2 nearest clubs (in the prem) have better alternatives (Tigers could move to King Power Stadium, Saints extend their ground).

Only way they could make up for CCFC not playing there is to have a massive concert every 2-3 months.

I have been told that ACL are looking into having 1 big concert a week at the Ricoh (mainly exhibition hall) they also want the safety people to allow an increase in capacity of the exhibition hall from 8000 to 12000

Jackoskyblue said:

I have been told that ACL are looking into having 1 big concert a week at the Ricoh (mainly exhibition hall) they also want the safety people to allow an increase in capacity of the exhibition hall from 8000 to 12000

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They had 12000 on Saturday.

Rich said:

Welford Road has a capacity of 24,000. Pretty sure a team like that would suit the Ricoh.

Just throwing it out there, that there are other options.

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Teams either rugby or football don't just up and leave their town or city because there is a stadium on offer in a nearby city.

The Tigers made a nice fat loss last season so I doubt they would consider wasting another pile of cash anyway or want to anger every supporter of their club for no real benefit. They had their lowest home attendence record for some time last year so a bigger ground in the wrong city doesn't sound like the answer.

Rich said:

They had 12000 on Saturday.

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You sure ? Was told by someone who worked alongside ACL in a kind of safety officer type role that they looked to expand it to 12k

I don't think Rich was actually suggesting that the Tigers would move in... It was a hypothetical example, not a solution.

Rich said:

I don't know who would be an ideal sport to replace Soccer, just throwing it out there that Rugby teams do have grounds a similar size to the Ricoh. As I said CCFC are not the be all and end all.

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Welford Rd is the largest purpose built club rugby union ground in England (from Wikipedia). The local Coventry rugby team have a ground with what one small stand? The jaguar exhibition hall (a side show to the main arena bowl) has a capacity of around 8-10k? But what are they going to put in there to fill it every week? Bands / singers only do outdoor arena tours during the summer time. CCFC is the only attraction the Ricoh is going to pull regular crowds of more than around 2000 for.

Something tells me ACL would miss 10k+ coming through the doors every week.

Jackoskyblue said:

You sure ? Was told by someone who worked alongside ACL in a kind of safety officer type role that they looked to expand it to 12k

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http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne...e-machine-thrill-record-crowd-92746-32392216/

I only know what I read in the Telegraph, so possibly take that with a pinch of Salt.

Voice_of_Reason said:

Kick CCFC and you have NO rent

Continue charging the existing rent and CCFC will go bust --- you will have NO rent.

Make your mind up ACL -- half a loaf (or 1/4 loaf) is better than no loaf!

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Sorry mate be realistic they get money off of the Casino, Hotel, from Exhibitions, Concerts, Heiniken Cup games, Potential Income from Rugby World Cup 2015, Other Football Games (non Senior England Games), Religious Gatherings etc.

Coventry City Football Club are not the be all and end all of The Ricoh i'm afraid, I do believe though it is mutually beneficial for City to have a football club and the football club to work with the City but your argument about them getting no rent will have hardly any bearing in the grand scheme of things!

SkyBluesAndy said:

Welford Rd is the largest purpose built club rugby union ground in England (from Wikipedia). The local Coventry rugby team have a ground with what one small stand? The jaguar exhibition hall (a side show to the main arena bowl) has a capacity of around 8-10k? But what are they going to put in there to fill it every week? Bands / singers only do outdoor arena tours during the summer time. CCFC is the only attraction the Ricoh is going to pull regular crowds of more than around 2000 for.

Something tells me ACL would miss 10k+ coming through the doors every week.

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The NEC has ha capacity of 16k. The Exhibition Hall is perfect for gigs, comedians, conventions. It would mean that The Ricoh would have to be more proactive in how they go about getting their business, but surely there are enough live entertainers who aren't quite big enough to sell out the NEC but are too big for, say, the Birmingham Academy.

I understand the owner of Northampton Saints is in constant arguments with their council because they won't give planning permission for expanding the Franklins Gardens ground. Sure he wouldn't mind moving to a 32,000 seater stadium - if our owners can contemplate moving us to Nene Park 6441 capacity in Irthlingborough I am sure the Saints would consider the Ricoh.

WillieStanley said:

The NEC has ha capacity of 16k. The Exhibition Hall is perfect for gigs, comedians, conventions. It would mean that The Ricoh would have to be more proactive in how they go about getting their business, but surely there are enough live entertainers who aren't quite big enough to sell out the NEC but are too big for, say, the Birmingham Academy.

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They won't make up for a football club, if we get into the championship, that's 15k supporters, prem, 32k - irreplaceable.

Why don't that have them comedians etc. there (as much as you are suggesting) now?

ashbyjan said:

I understand the owner of Northampton Saints is in constant arguments with their council because they won't give planning permission for expanding the Franklins Gardens ground. Sure he wouldn't mind moving to a 32,000 seater stadium - if our owners can contemplate moving us to Nene Park 6441 capacity in Irthlingborough I am sure the Saints would consider the Ricoh.

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They're extending their ground...

We won't move from the RICOH, it's all threats to get the 2 sides negotiating.

ACL apparntley tunred over 400K last year. We pay 1.28 miilion every year, so that shows that ACL cant afford to lose us. We can find another stadium, thye need us to stay alive. They need us more than we need them

ashbyjan said:

I understand the owner of Northampton Saints is in constant arguments with their council because they won't give planning permission for expanding the Franklins Gardens ground. Sure he wouldn't mind moving to a 32,000 seater stadium - if our owners can contemplate moving us to Nene Park 6441 capacity in Irthlingborough I am sure the Saints would consider the Ricoh.

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I'm sure he wouldn't mind moving to a 32,000 seater stadium, but if only averaging 13,500 crowds in Northampton, how many would he expect to get in Coventry?

With only 11 home league games a season as well of course.

Not even close to being a runner.

Voice_of_Reason said:

Kick CCFC and you have NO rent

Continue charging the existing rent and CCFC will go bust --- you will have NO rent.

Make your mind up ACL -- half a loaf (or 1/4 loaf) is better than no loaf!

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The voice of no reason , because of course both parties need each other, which is why a contract was signed in the first place.
Any suggestion Cov will go anywhere else is nonsense and would probably reduce the gate by another 3 or 4000 ..a false economy.

Sisu remain in breach of contract and have conducted themselves in a disgraceful way around this.

Moving from the Ricoh would essentially mean groundsharing for at least the next 10-20 years; chiefly because we don't have the money or permission to build a new ground elsewhere. Leaving the stadium would thus be the final nail in the club's coffin and with that SISU's £40m goes down the pan.

SkyBlue_Taylor said:

They won't make up for a football club, if we get into the championship, that's 15k supporters, prem, 32k - irreplaceable.

Why don't that have them comedians etc. there (as much as you are suggesting) now?

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Not sure what attendances have to do with it if ACL do not profit from anything other than the rent?

If ACL profit was 400k and thats what they are willing to go to re: rent, I cant see them going any lower than that with their offer. IMO It wouldnt take too many saturday night concerts/ one of sporting events to raise the 400k if they had use of the stadium/Arena for gigs etc.
Those who are claiming that ACL need the 1.2 million rent should remember they havent actually been paid that in a long time ( I wouldnt be suprised if they had written that off to a provision for bad/doubtful debts in the accounts). Its difficult to imagine the council and a charity designed for the people of the city will start operating at a loss for the sake of having a football club given there are 300k people in the city who dont use it. And that is not being bitter, I Love the club and want it to survive, but that makes perfect sense.
Unfortunately SISU took over the club knowing full well what rent payments were. Negotiation etc is completely understandable but simply not paying any rent (even a token gesture to show goodwill) is unacceptable.

If there's another team wanting to play at the Ricoh why not move them in and ground share? The fact that hasn't happened would seem to indicate there's noone waiting in the wings to leap in and fill the void.

I mentioned in another thread (can't remember which one or I'd be replying in that!) that I'd ask around at work about peoples opinion of the Ricoh. Now bear in mind I work in the music business so none of this information will relate to how the Ricoh operates as a exhibition venue and it's not exactly extensive (just had a chat with 3 people who work with the size bands we'd be looking at for the Ricoh who I happened to be talking to anyway).

A suggestion was made somewhere on the forum that without a football team we could put a roof over the pitch and have an all year round stadium sized venue. Everyone I spoke to said this was a non starter. Those size bands only tour over the summer and a full stadium relies on a lot of casual fans so they try hard not to over saturate any one city (London being the exception). The point was made that Milton Keynes Bowl is a permanent outdoor venue but doesn't really get more shows than any other venue of it's size and also Millenium Stadium can be used all year round but it very rarely happens outside the usual touring window of the summer.

Looking at indoor concerts one of the agents I spoke to didn't even know there was an indoor venue at the Ricoh - that would set alarm bells of for me if I was on the management team! The general thoughts were that it's going to be very hard to take acts from the NEC. It was mentioned that a show like Florence & The Machine were at the Ricoh as they'd already done the NEC earlier in the year. Apparently the production facilities aren't comparable to the NEC in terms of room for trucks, sleeper buses etc. The NEC has good rail, bus and air links and masses of parking which the Rioch is lacking. A good point that came up was the population of Birmingham is over 2 million, a much bigger local catchment for a show than Coventry. Looking at getting shows too small for the NEC it was pointed out that the NEC also run the NIA which has a smaller capacity than the NEC and is in the city centre. Final point was why would anyone move from the NEC, which the big agencies have been using since the mid 80s and is very stable financially to a new arena that only seems to make press due to financial issues.

Rich said:

Not sure what attendances have to do with it if ACL do not profit from anything other than the rent?

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In terms of revenue for surrounding area.

SkyBlue_Taylor said:

In terms of revenue for surrounding area.

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But ACl don't profit from revenue for the surrounding area, so i still don't see what ACL would gain through having more football fans visiting the ground apart from higher maintenance costs?