Academy future? (1 Viewer)

oldfiver · Mar 17, 2016

italiahorse said:
Didn't Sisu/CCFC move the academy out of the Higgs Centre some time ago after refusing to make good some of the facilities they were using ?

Could this be another Sisu chicken come home to roost after that event ?

From memory = CCFC had the pitches replaced at their cost

italiahorse · Mar 17, 2016

oldfiver said:
From memory = CCFC had the pitches replaced at their cost

That was Northampton don't forget
I'm told that Higgs got the inside pitch replaced cheaply due to a cancelled order elsewhere.

italiahorse · Mar 17, 2016

trondegilsoltvedt97 said:
To be fair, if I rent a pitch at AT7 or Goals etc, I don't expect to have to make good/upkeep the facilities that I'm paying them to use.

Depends on the contract. But keep defending our idiot owners.

Hobo · Mar 17, 2016

RFC said:
Perhaps you should be addressing your concerns also to CCC and Ann Lucas?

Always someone else's fault.

trondegilsoltvedt97 · Mar 17, 2016

italiahorse said:
Depends on the contract. But keep defending our idiot owners.

Very sorry for disagreeing with your point of view...

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Mar 17, 2016

FFS can't we have just one Thursday when we get some good news? Is that too much to ask?

italiahorse · Mar 17, 2016

trondegilsoltvedt97 said:
Very sorry for disagreeing with your point of view...

If you are defending Sisu when Higgs say they are owed money for replacing facilities.
That's not an opinion that's defending one side over the other.

You will find that some payment was eventually made but hey, you keep defending the indefensible !!

trondegilsoltvedt97 · Mar 17, 2016

italiahorse said:
If you are defending Sisu when Higgs say they are owed money for replacing facilities.
That's not an opinion that's defending one side over the other.

You will find that some payment was eventually made but hey, you keep defending the indefensible !!

Did I defend or criticise anyone in my original post of "To be fair, if I rent a pitch at AT7 or Goals etc, I don't expect to have to make good/upkeep the facilities that I'm paying them to use."
Not every post is criticising or defending a or b. It would depend on the contract as you rightly said, to which neither you or I are party. Please don't try to pick an argument when there is not one to make.

italiahorse · Mar 17, 2016

dongonzalos said:
We can see other pitches and buildings in the design. What are they for?

The aim is to have the entire football model on one site. The pitches you see in the initial designs reflect first team training pitches as well as pitches for Academy and others for community usage.

Those pitches will be full size and floodlit along with an indoor facility to meet the requirements of Academy Category 2 and possible Category 1 in the future.

Steve Waggot

Year by Year contract agreed to allow the above to happen

Unfortunately like with the Ricoh sale to Wasps the Club forces these decisions to be made. We can have no complaints

This is the problem ......

Keep saying you are going to provide your own facilities elsewhere and owners of the current facilities you use will not take you into consideration in their long term planning.

Ricoh ownership ? ............... Building our own .................GONE
Academy at Higgs ? .............. Building our own and one year contracts ..................GOING
Making the Ricoh our home with a long term contract ............... Building our own .................. WATCHING the Ricoh develop without us.

italiahorse · Mar 17, 2016

trondegilsoltvedt97 said:
Did I defend or criticise anyone in my original post of "To be fair, if I rent a pitch at AT7 or Goals etc, I don't expect to have to make good/upkeep the facilities that I'm paying them to use."
Not every post is criticising or defending a or b. It would depend on the contract as you rightly said, to which neither you or I are party. Please don't try to pick an argument when there is not one to make.

I get sick of people on here criticising everybody except Sisu so I'm sorry if you got caught up in my bickering.

trondegilsoltvedt97 · Mar 17, 2016

italiahorse said:
I get sick of people on here criticising everybody except Sisu so I'm sorry if you got caught up in my bickering.

Thank you

Mr T - Sukka! · Mar 18, 2016

Good post OSB, raises some very good questions.

SISU have a lot to answer for here, its all well and good them saying they are not putting any more money into the football club, we are debt free blah blah blah.

But when important issues like this arise they end up looking very unprofessional and looking like they haven't got a clue.

Lets not mice words they are RELYING on the academy to fund this club. Then not securing its long term future. What an odd way of conducting business.

Talk about shooting yourself in the balls! Where is the fantastic Seppala and Anderson, with a statement?

Hobo · Mar 18, 2016

It is down to the club to make the right level of investment. It can't keep blaming others, but will remain vulnerable if it depends on others.

Sky Blue Kid · Mar 18, 2016

oldfiver said:
From memory = CCFC had the pitches replaced at their cost

“Ten years ago the club had no money and was about to lose it’s Academy status so we had to get it up quickly.
“There was no way any charity was going to give a commercial club money to go and build an academy, so what we did was built a community sports and leisure centre that also had the Academy in it, which was a cost effective way of doing it.
“They got the grass pitches for nothing but they had to maintain them and they used our equipment to do that. These mowers are very expensive bits of kit and the capital cost of the equipment there was £100,000.
“They paid rent for the offices and the all weather pitches they paid a discounted rate because they paid quarterly in advance.
“It couldn’t have been better for them. There’s no capital recovery, no fee for use of pitches and it would have cost them more if they owned it.
“They wouldn’t pay for pitch renovation so they consume and use and don’t pay, and as a charity, which is what The Higgs is, that can’t go on. I don’t understand; presumably they know what they are doing.”
The Trust have always maintained their original agreement of use was with CCFC Ltd, the company currently in administration, and insisted that City were in breach of that agreement when they said the Academy came under the remit of CCFC Holdings
“We had an agreement with Ltd and not Holdings and they breached that by suddenly saying it’s Holdings you are dealing with,” said Knatchbull-Hugessen who explained that affected the Centre’s insurance cover for players using the facilities.
“People coming out of the Academy all have potential to be professional players and any injuries or accidents sustained by them could be quite serious in terms of cost of compensation, therefore it was absolutely vital we had the proper insurance.
“Therefore to ensure the insurance was valid we made sure that the same company we had the agreement with employed the people and would insure the people, otherwise we would be open to all sorts of liability. But we found that actually, without telling us, they had changed all that. One of the things we would have had to do was get it all back and regularise it.”
He added: “The equipment that they used was ours and they were meant to maintain it but they had done no maintenance for two years so the machinery was just collapsing. The sticking point, though, was when they said ‘well it’s Ltd that owe you that money.”

Does this help?

stupot07 · Mar 18, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Unfortunately like with the Ricoh sale to Wasps the Club forces these decisions to be made. We can have no complaints

Poppycock, ccfc and the short-term deal may have made this decidion easier but the situation certainly hasn't forced them to make this decision.

This is part of a wider sports strategy to replace cov sports center swimming pool. The higg centre must have been struggling financially anyway, which wouldn't be the first sports center for that to happen to. Coventry sports foundation, have already taken over 1-2 sports including moathouse leisure centre which used to be run by the Sports Trust.

IMO this would still be on the cards even if we had a long tern deal on the table. Its the only sports centre that has the space to build a Olympic size swimming pool

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

oldfiver · Mar 18, 2016

italiahorse said:
That was Northampton don't forget
I'm told that Higgs got the inside pitch replaced cheaply due to a cancelled order elsewhere.

Nope I am referring to the pitches at Higgs :wave:

skybluetony176 · Mar 18, 2016

stupot07 said:
Poppycock, ccfc and the short-term deal may have made this decidion easier but the situation certainly hasn't forced them to make this decision.

This is part of a wider sports strategy to replace cov sports center swimming pool. The higg centre must have been struggling financially anyway, which wouldn't be the first sports center for that to happen to. Coventry sports foundation, haven't already taken over 1-2 sports including moathouse leisure centre which used to be run by the Sports Trust.

IMO this would still be on the cards even if we had a long tern deal on the table. Its the only sports centre that has the space to build a Olympic size swimming pool

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I think that's a pretty fair summing up Stu. But it does also show we need a long time solution to get over this. Chances are we'll also only find a solution if we're giving a long term commitment. We clearly don't have the funds to go it alone so we'll have to go into partnership with someone. Warwick uni being the obvious choice.

Captain Dart · Mar 18, 2016

RFC said:
Perhaps you should be addressing your concerns also to CCC and Ann Lucas?

There you go again blaming external agencies for the clubs failures. Utterly pathetic.

Perhaps you should wake up & smell the coffee. Where is CCFC's plan, indeed is there one?

They have made no progress on any of their plans, no stadium, no new academy site, (so far) no efficient ticketing system, they are like a sailboat becalmed while everybody else steams ahead.

Totally unsuitable owners, admit it.

Captain Dart · Mar 18, 2016

italiahorse said:
Didn't Sisu/CCFC move the academy out of the Higgs Centre some time ago after refusing to make good some of the facilities they were using ?

Could this be another Sisu chicken come home to roost after that event ?

In summary, pitch has 10 year life which it has reached. But the centre won't pay £80K to replace because CCFC won't commit long term. So they looked for alternative uses for the space. The football club has no god given right for other organisations to pay for their activities, even through you might think so if you read some of the blinkered comments on this site.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-academy-future-8760465
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/supporters-group-tells-coventry-city-10529972

oldskyblue58 · Mar 18, 2016

stupot07 said:
Poppycock, ccfc and the short-term deal may have made this decidion easier but the situation certainly hasn't forced them to make this decision.

This is part of a wider sports strategy to replace cov sports center swimming pool. The higg centre must have been struggling financially anyway, which wouldn't be the first sports center for that to happen to. Coventry sports foundation, haven't already taken over 1-2 sports including moathouse leisure centre which used to be run by the Sports Trust.

IMO this would still be on the cards even if we had a long tern deal on the table. Its the only sports centre that has the space to build a Olympic size swimming pool

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

certainly a lot of truth in that I would think stupot. However I have a suspicion that CCFC's agreement was not open ended and probably ended 2017 or 2018, that the club have refused to confirm that they would extend beyond that - everything they do seems short term (not necessarily a bad thing on some aspects of the business). With the facilities in need of renovation then the Trustees had to look for long term alternatives in order to cover the financial exposure. It also seems to me that to put all the sites under experienced sports managers is a sensible move. I don't think its being done to take a dig at CCFC as such but there is certainly potential to damage CCFC's plans for the Academy

oldskyblue58 · Mar 18, 2016

CCFC said:
And what if they can't tell you what you want to hear? How can the club guarantee long term cat 2 status when they have no control or indluence over what the higgs do? How can they tell us we have a long term future at cat 2 when the facility is being altered to no longer meet the criteria and, a decision which the club have no say in and without a suitable alternative venue.

Its obvious the people making the decisions at the higgs have no regard for the future of the ccfc academy. Ideally we'd build a new academy centre which the club have full control of and then these uncertainties wouldn't exist

If it is so important to the club to have a Cat 2 academy then I find it strange if the club has not safeguarded such an asset from the effects of third party actions. Especially given all that has gone on in the last decade. It should not be about what Higgs do or changes to the site.

It isn't up to the AHCT to run or make decisions for the Academy or even make AHCT plans around them. The Trustees have to act in the best interests of the Trust nothing else.

These events have been well signposted for some time, months, so the risk was there for all that time. Or is it as usual on so many things leave it to the last minute and then blame everyone else. CCFC make the decisions for the Academy and carry all the responsibility for its well being. It would be good if other bodies helped to support it but there is no duty to do so

They may of course have a plan, be able to tell us the risk has been mitigated.

So back to the original question whats the CCFC plan forward for the Academy, the Academy that is so vital to our future viability?

Nick · Mar 18, 2016

Why more secret talks? Could a bit more digging be done?

I hope we can get some sort of partnership with Warwick Uni, not 100% what facilities they have or what would need to be done to get them up to the level.

I guess the other option is sort out the connexion, but last time I went there you probably couldn't get a non league youth team training there.

Is there a list of criteria needed? Is it mainly an indoor pitch that seals it?

Edit : What about Woodlands School? I know they are on about closing it down but don't they have power leagues and a gym etc there?

italiahorse · Mar 18, 2016

I would say it would be cheaper and easier to build the swimming pool as a separate building on the site.
The indoor pitch is now superb to play on but the pitch separation curtains could do with upgrading.

Nick · Mar 18, 2016

italiahorse said:
I would say it would be cheaper and easier to build the swimming pool as a separate building on the site.

Is there much land available nearby to give space for it? Could move the main pitch across and put the pool there.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 18, 2016

hopefully this link works

www.thefa.com/~/.../C2FB1444624F4367AA477A72D94B50BF.ashx

alternatively google football academy criteria ...... this FA document should come up first as a PDF

Facilities are page 90

italiahorse · Mar 18, 2016

Nick said:
Why more secret talks?

I hope we can get some sort of partnership with Warwick Uni, not 100% what facilities they have or what would need to be done to get them up to the level.

I guess the other option is sort out the connexion, but last time I went there you probably couldn't get a non league youth team training there.

Is there a list of criteria needed? Is it mainly an indoor pitch that seals it?

Edit : What about Woodlands School? I know they are on about closing it down but don't they have power leagues and a gym etc there?

I'm no expert but Woodland Outdoor pitches are not 3G and the indoor facilities are too small and wooden floor.

Nick · Mar 18, 2016

italiahorse said:
I'm no expert but Woodland Outdoor pitches are not 3G and the indoor facilities are too small and wooden floor.

Yeah just googled it, they are old school indoor.

italiahorse · Mar 18, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
hopefully this link works

www.thefa.com/~/.../C2FB1444624F4367AA477A72D94B50BF.ashx

alternatively google football academy criteria ...... this FA document should come up first

Facilities are page 90

Link does't work for me

Nick · Mar 18, 2016

Warwick Uni looks decent though:
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/services/sport/facilities/westwood

Does it have to be a 3/4G indoor pitch?

Nick · Mar 18, 2016

Ah interesting that they don't have to be at the same location.

It says they need a few grass pitches, could use Ryton for that?

Then it is just the indoor pitch!

oldskyblue58 · Mar 18, 2016

They wont want to use Ryton because it will over use the pitches that the 1st team use I wouldn't have thought

3G pitches they could hire at venues across the city but could they get primacy of use at all times?. But what about all the other facilities (classrooms, meeting & admin rooms etc) required. Seems to me the FA envisage some sort of permanent site which is under Club control with elements possible at other sites perhaps

Captain Dart · Mar 18, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
They wont want to use Ryton because it will over use the pitches that the 1st team use I wouldn't have thought

3G pitches they could hire at venues across the city but could they get primacy of use at all times?. But what about all the other facilities (classrooms, meeting & admin rooms etc) required. Seems to me the FA envisage some sort of permanent site which is under Club control with elements possible at other sites perhaps

What are the chances of CCFC under current ownership investing in an academy site? :thinking about:

It would probably cost as much if not more than the £5M/6M they wouldn't pay to secure a stadium to play in.

Nick · Mar 18, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
They wont want to use Ryton because it will over use the pitches that the 1st team use I wouldn't have thought

3G pitches they could hire at venues across the city but could they get primacy of use at all times?. But what about all the other facilities (classrooms, meeting & admin rooms etc) required. Seems to me the FA envisage some sort of permanent site which is under Club control with elements possible at other sites perhaps

Warwick Uni have most of it looking at it, just not sure about the indoor pitch.

oldskyblue58 · Mar 18, 2016

I am not holding my breath on that but it could happen. We are repeatedly told by everyone at the club the future of CCFC is a strong Academy, that it is vital to their viability. They have to do something or partner someone

Nick · Mar 18, 2016

How do students do any work? They have a frizbee pitch!!!

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