Admin is a better option than SISU (1 Viewer)

OyJimmy · Aug 23, 2011

Sick of this. I don't care if Hoffman has putr a bid in or not. I would rather SISU not 'bail' us out any more. Please put us into administration so our great and proud club can be free of you and Ken 'admin' Dulieu.

We might get relegated, we might have to fight our way back from league 1. But come on enough is enough. We are a mid size club with owners that can't afford to run a club of this size.

Please go.

And one more thing SISU keep saying Hoffman hasn't told them who his investors are. Well why don't you tell us who YOUR investors are. Time to put up or shut up SISU!

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

Jesus wept.

Seriously, thats all I can muster. I bet you're one of those fans who protest by not going to games as well?

OyJimmy · Aug 23, 2011

Season ticket holder. You? I bet you've never even been!

Any would take the 10 point loss now and believe we have a strong enough club to fight back and stay up if SISU go now.

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

Season Ticket Holder who lives 150 miles away. I've only missed the Bury game so far this season.

Do you really think I'd be stupid enough to call someone out on not going to games if I didn't go myself? Ha ha ha.

10 point deduction and relegation is not the answer, I shouldn't have to explain why. Look at Bradford and Luton. We are not the same as Southampton, Norwich or Leeds, again, I shouldn't have to explain why.

kg82 · Aug 23, 2011

Not getting involved in the argument but I have to ask why we're not the same as Southampton and Norwich? Very similar size clubs with similar historys to ours. Whereas we've been more successful than both Bradford and Luton.

singers_pore · Aug 23, 2011

I very much doubt the administration option will happen simply because most of the debt is held by SISU. Administration was much more likely in the pre-SISU era when a large part of the debt was owed to the bank.

Sooner or later, I think SISU will sell up. I think the takeover will happen sometime this season, depending on what GH and any other interested parties can offer and how desperate SISU become.

For me, the major stumbling block to a takeover could be Orange Ken and Clouting, as they may be feeding unreliable information to SISU in order to keep hold of their jobs.

ashbyjan · Aug 23, 2011

Cannot see Ken and Barbie (sorry Clouting) being a stumbling block as if they become one Hoffman would simply sidestep them and go direct to Sepalla or whoever at SISU. These two are small time nobodies in the greater scheme of things and I am sure Hoff has dealt with pathetic gatekeepers like them before.

rob9872 · Aug 23, 2011

"For me, the major stumbling block to a takeover could be Orange Ken and Clouting, as they may be feeding unreliable information to SISU in order to keep hold of their jobs."

Echoing exactly what I've said before. They will attempt to derail the bid as their personal gravy train will stop.

singers_pore · Aug 23, 2011

ashbyjan said:
Cannot see Ken and Barbie (sorry Clouting) being a stumbling block as if they become one Hoffman would simply sidestep them and go direct to Sepalla or whoever at SISU. These two are small time nobodies in the greater scheme of things and I am sure Hoff has dealt with pathetic gatekeepers like them before.

I suspect that CCFC is a very small portion of the overall SISU portfolio. I don't know this for sure so would appreciate the info of others.

If CCFC is indeed a very small portion of the overall SISU portfolio, I doubt that Joy Seppala would have the time or inclination to deal directly with the Hoff. She would just delegate it to the board of CCFC whom she appointed.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 23, 2011

last report i saw said they had something like £450m under management .................. CCFC is £30m

Any purchase of the company is rightly addressed to the directors ..... who then recommend to shareholders or not ..... but i guess GH could approach SISU direct but then again they dont own the shares.

Pigeon · Aug 23, 2011

I want SISU just as much as everyone but admin? No.
I don't think we'll regain the 10 point deduction and if we go down to league 1 I'm not convinced we'll "go down to come straight back up", it's not as simple as that as there are some good teams scrapping it out in that league.

chiefdave · Aug 23, 2011

oldskyblue58 said:
last report i saw said they had something like £450m under management .................. CCFC is £30m

Any purchase of the company is rightly addressed to the directors ..... who then recommend to shareholders or not ..... but i guess GH could approach SISU direct but then again they dont own the shares.

does this not mean that Ken etc could turn it down without SISU knowing? Wouldn't that be a conflict of interest seeing as they will most likely all lose their jobs in Hoff get's in?

ashbyjan · Aug 23, 2011

Whilst not a great advocate of protests - if we truly believe that Ken and Barbie are blocking the truth from SISU then getting their name dragged through the press may force them to at least question why such a small and insignificant part of their portfolio is giving them so much bad publicity. Maybe thats why Brinner turning up at their door had such a disproportionate effect with people being ushered out of back doors, Brody being summoned to answer questions etc.

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

kg82 said:
Not getting involved in the argument but I have to ask why we're not the same as Southampton and Norwich? Very similar size clubs with similar historys to ours. Whereas we've been more successful than both Bradford and Luton.

Southampton are extremely cash rich so managed to buy a squad to get out of L1 and a squad that have currently started very well. You only need to look at their squad and the fees they paid to assemble, which is far and away from anything we can or will do.

Norwich, look at their attendances compared to ours.

We need to face facts, we aren't the same size club we were back in 90's. As depressing as it may seem, we are currently at our right level but I fear relegation will see us go the same way as Bradford as opposed to Southampton for the reasons mentioned above. Quite sad really.

oldskyblue58 · Aug 23, 2011

Would be difficult to keep it from them with Onye on the board of directors. Not sure they are that concerned that they cease to be directors all have other interests away from the club- think people make too much of that

kapowaz · Aug 23, 2011

What exactly does how often somebody goes to see the club play have to do with the validity of their argument?

Moff · Aug 23, 2011

Sterling Archer said:
Southampton are extremely cash rich so managed to buy a squad to get out of L1 and a squad that have currently started very well. You only need to look at their squad and the fees they paid to assemble, which is far and away from anything we can or will do.

Norwich, look at their attendances compared to ours.

We need to face facts, we aren't the same size club we were back in 90's. As depressing as it may seem, we are currently at our right level but I fear relegation will see us go the same way as Bradford as opposed to Southampton for the reasons mentioned above. Quite sad really.

Yes but arent Southampton cash rich after consolidating for a season in League one, after having their debts written off after going into administartion, and being taken over by a consortium who started debt free.
Perhaps it is for those reasons that people see Admin as an option.

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

Southampton have a very very rich man in charge, Markus Liebherr. The Southern bastards got lucky basically. It also helped them that they had an amazing academy which got them a huge amount of £££ from the sales of Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain amongst many others.

Just for clairification, Markus Liebherr died a year ago BUT the club's future had been assured and planned for before Mr. Liebherr's death. His "estate" owns the club etc.

I don't understand this blind faith that the same would happen to us, that our very own Markus Liebherr would turn up and buy us. It would be very unlikely. Huge gamble to take if thats the route some people wanted to go. The kind of gamble which has seen us originally get into this kind of financial spot of bother.

kg82 · Aug 23, 2011

Sterling Archer said:
Southampton are extremely cash rich so managed to buy a squad to get out of L1 and a squad that have currently started very well. You only need to look at their squad and the fees they paid to assemble, which is far and away from anything we can or will do.

Norwich, look at their attendances compared to ours.

We need to face facts, we aren't the same size club we were back in 90's. As depressing as it may seem, we are currently at our right level but I fear relegation will see us go the same way as Bradford as opposed to Southampton for the reasons mentioned above. Quite sad really.

But where do you think Southampton were before they got their current owners? Well, they were in the exactly the same position as us. And they went down. Attendances don't mean anything. Norwich also went down. Sure, they got back to back promotions but they didn't spend big, that was down to a great manager. Point is, and I'm not saying it's the right way to go, but if we went into admin which gave us a clean slate and probably a much more attractive proposition to potential buyers, why could we not be "cash rich" and buy a squad capable of promotion in whichever division we're in? It's hypothetical, but then it was to Saints fans too before they were taken over.

Again, I'm not saying admin is the way to go, just giving another perspective.

kg82 · Aug 23, 2011

Sterling Archer said:
Southampton have a very very rich man in charge, Markus Liebherr. The Southern bastards got lucky basically. It also helped them that they had an amazing academy which got them a huge amount of £££ from the sales of Bale, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain amongst many others.

Just for clairification, Markus Liebherr died a year ago BUT the club's future had been assured and planned for before Mr. Liebherr's death. His "estate" owns the club etc.

I don't understand this blind faith that the same would happen to us, that our very own Markus Liebherr would turn up and buy us. It would be very unlikely. Huge gamble to take if thats the route some people wanted to go. The kind of gamble which has seen us originally get into this kind of financial spot of bother.

I'm not putting blind faith in it, I'm giving a different opinion! Not necessarily my opinion either.

If Saints had been that lucky then Mr Liebherr would have ploughed money into the club before they went into administration and went down. He didn't because he was obviously a businessman and knew it would be best for that debt to be wiped. We might not get our very own Markus Liebherr but I think we'd be an attractive proposition to someone who would be willing to invest in the team and stadium with the added bonus of no debt.

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

I'll say this again. People seem to think gambling on the fact that we'll find a 'Markus Liebharr' once we go into admin is a good idea along with the fact I can't see our academy raising over £30m in transfer fees over a 3 year period. Previous form shows that this is a very very small chance of either of these things happening.

I can also see why Southampton would be a far more attractive proposition for investors than Coventry as well.
1. Seaside town/city, its nicer than the city of Coventry, lets be honest.
2. They actually own their own stadium.
3. The academy which has a converyor belt of youngsters earning the club over £30m in 3 years.

I worry about us sometimes, people seem to complain about us gambling on our finances and see the answer to the mess it has put it in by, gambling on our finances.

"Yeah, we'll go into admin, some rich bloke will takeover and pump Bazillions of £££ in." Can we not see how incredibly risky and dare I say it, stupid, that is?

kg82 · Aug 23, 2011

Don't be so hard-headed to dismiss everybody else's opinions. Some decent points are being put across, it's just debating.

tippex9 · Aug 23, 2011

27 teams have gone into admin since Leicester pulled their fast one in 2002, one has just been promoted to the Prem, six play in the Championship with us, twelve are in leagues one and two but an alarming eight have dropped out of the league all together!!!

Of the ones who still play at our level, Leeds, Southampton, Portsmouth etc they kept their better players and managed to work their way back with the quality they had. We have two maybe three players who would even command a fee let alone a team who would be head and shoulders above a lower league team.

Aside from admin guaranteeing SISUs departure I fail to see what other positives we could guarantee from it and the pitfalls are for all to see.

Luton played along side us in the top flight for years, they were forced into admin by shady owners and now they're in the bottom six of the Conference. Admin doesn't always guarantee a clean fresh start, I'd rather we kept using SISUs funds to stay afloat till a buyout can be agreed.

To be honest it's been ruled out by SISU on several occasions so there is no point to this thread

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

kg82 said:
Don't be so hard-headed to dismiss everybody else's opinions. Some decent points are being put across, it's just debating.

Sweet irony. Can you not see that I am merely debating myself? I'm not dismissing anyones opinion I'm merely responding to posts with any opinions and/or facts that I know. Don't be so precious.

People take this here internet thingy far too seriously.

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

Top post Tippex9, that should be enough to put anyone off thinking going into admin would be a good idea for City.

Moff · Aug 23, 2011

Sterling Archer said:
People take this here internet thingy far too seriously.

Like you did on the other thread when you said you werent going to post on the subject anymore.

Perhaps you were guilty of being a bit precious there too

coundonskyblue · Aug 23, 2011

Sterling Archer said:
I'll say this again. People seem to think gambling on the fact that we'll find a 'Markus Liebharr' once we go into admin is a good idea along with the fact I can't see our academy raising over £30m in transfer fees over a 3 year period. Previous form shows that this is a very very small chance of either of these things happening.

I can also see why Southampton would be a far more attractive proposition for investors than Coventry as well.
1. Seaside town/city, its nicer than the city of Coventry, lets be honest.
2. They actually own their own stadium.
3. The academy which has a converyor belt of youngsters earning the club over £30m in 3 years.

I worry about us sometimes, people seem to complain about us gambling on our finances and see the answer to the mess it has put it in by, gambling on our finances.

"Yeah, we'll go into admin, some rich bloke will takeover and pump Bazillions of £££ in." Can we not see how incredibly risky and dare I say it, stupid, that is?

How does the fact that Southampton is nearer the sea make it more attractive as a business? Coventry has far better transport links than Southampton which is surely a more important asset to a business.

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

Moff said:
Like you did on the other thread when you said you werent going to post on the subject anymore.

Perhaps you were guilty of being a bit precious there too

Refresh my memory Mr "bloke who keeps stalking me on every thread" *.

This is a joke name by the way, please don't take it seriously. Ta!

Maybe it would make my internet experience better if the smilies had one where the little face had his tongue firmly in cheek? I'd use that a lot.

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

coundonskyblue said:
How does the fact that Southampton is nearer the sea make it more attractive as a business? Coventry has far better transport links than Southampton which is surely a more important asset to a business.

More attractive town. In fact its one of the reasons they decided to buy into Southampton because they liked the town. Hence why a sh*thole like Middlesbrough (who Gibson has been trying to sell for about 3 years) hasn't had even the most deluded of Arab businessman look into buying it. Even Wigan only got rich (by their standards when they were a lower league nothing club) because a fan invested in them.

Lets all be honest here, Coventry is a bit of a sh*thole and has a reputation for being so.

However if I was trying to sell the club, I'd take them round Wawick and Stratford, places like that. "Yes Mr Asian business man, this is all part of Coventry too. Shakespeare was a City fan didn't you know?"

Moff · Aug 23, 2011

Sterling Archer said:
Refresh my memory Mr "bloke who keeps stalking me on every thread" *.

This is a joke name by the way, please don't take it seriously. Ta!

Maybe it would make my internet experience better if the smilies had one where the little face had his tongue firmly in cheek? I'd use that a lot.

Put as many smilies in as you want.

I have obviously touched a nerve, that you dont like being seen as being precious, nor have anyone insult your ego.

Its a forum for debate, deal with it, as not everyone agrees with your opinion, and that obviously makes you very sad. Just a joke though

kapowaz · Aug 23, 2011

Sterling Archer said:
Top post Tippex9, that should be enough to put anyone off thinking going into admin would be a good idea for City.

It's interesting stuff no doubt, but there's no guarantee that just because we're not a Leeds, Southampton or Portsmouth we'd suffer the fate as Luton. In fact there are very few reasons to suppose we'd have it as bad as them if we went into administration — don't forget they were docked thirty points for financial irregularities. If we're hiding the same irregularities then the club is breaking the rules of the game irrespective of whether or not they're in administration, so let's hope our noses aren't too dirty in that respect.

My perspective on CCFC's problem is that we have skirted around administration for a very long time, much like somebody who's sick trying their best not to throw up; ultimately it is more likely in our interests to get it over and done with than to keep suffering the symptoms of financial hardship. If the claims in Frankie 1987's article here are true then SISU are locked into a situation they would probably love to get out of, but simply can't without ending with a £20m bill at the end of it. Administration and promotion are the only two endgames for them, and clearly promotion is extremely unrealistic. The question then becomes, not should we enter administration, but when? What is the best way of doing it that minimises the damage to the club and gives us the best possibility of staying in the Championship, or failing that, the best chance of returning at the first opportunity?

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

Moff said:
Put as many smilies in as you want.

I have obviously touched a nerve, that you dont like being seen as being precious, nor have anyone insult your ego.

Its a forum for debate, deal with it, as not everyone agrees with your opinion, and that obviously makes you very sad. Just a joke though

Hang on a second old bean. So I've been told off for debating, then told it to deal with it because its a forum for debate?

I guess its me that doesn't understand irony then. Which is ironic as I type this whilst wearing a cowboy hat.

Moff · Aug 23, 2011

Sterling Archer said:
Hang on a second old bean. So I've been told off for debating, then told it to deal with it because its a forum for debate?

I guess its me that doesn't understand irony then. Which is ironic as I type this whilst wearing a cowboy hat.

But then isnt it ironic that I am a stalker for debating with you, and yet you find it ironic that youve been told off for debating......etc etc. We could go on slapping our thighs and laughing at the irony of it all day. But we wont.

Perhaps we will agree to disagree.

Nice hat.

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

kapowaz said:
It's interesting stuff no doubt, but there's no guarantee that just because we're not a Leeds, Southampton or Portsmouth we'd suffer the fate as Luton. In fact there are very few reasons to suppose we'd have it as bad as them if we went into administration — don't forget they were docked thirty points for financial irregularities. If we're hiding the same irregularities then the club is breaking the rules of the game irrespective of whether or not they're in administration, so let's hope our noses aren't too dirty in that respect.

My perspective on CCFC's problem is that we have skirted around administration for a very long time, much like somebody who's sick trying their best not to throw up; ultimately it is more likely in our interests to get it over and done with than to keep suffering the symptoms of financial hardship. If the claims in Frankie 1987's article here are true then SISU are locked into a situation they would probably love to get out of, but simply can't without ending with a £20m bill at the end of it. Administration and promotion are the only two endgames for them, and clearly promotion is extremely unrealistic. The question then becomes, not should we enter administration, but when? What is the best way of doing it that minimises the damage to the club and gives us the best possibility of staying in the Championship, or failing that, the best chance of returning at the first opportunity?

Ahhhh finally. A reply which doesn't tell me to stop debating when this is a place for debating.

I just personally feel the gamble of admin is a scary prospect and that we are not in a similar position to Southampton, Leeds and Norwich for reasons discussed. Luton is obviously the extreme end of the other scale but its the 'not preparing for the worst' which has kind of seen us go "tits up" in the past. Well that and the fact Bryan Richardson [thou shalt not libel on a football forum] and Gordon Strachan made some of the most bizarre managerial decisions since those fellers who ran Enron.

Anyway, off the tangent, back on the subject. So on the assumption that the article the true, I can't see any reason for SISU continuing to fund losses until the end of the season when an offer is on the table. Unless the offer says that SISU must become Gary Hoffman's servents and bring him grapes whenever he wants, surely they need to cut losses asap?

I still don't see administration as an answer unless it gets to a point where it is unavoidable. Unless in some strange way it means I get a night at a hotel with Jessica Alba.

Sterling Archer · Aug 23, 2011

Moff said:
But then isnt it ironic that I am a stalker for debating with you, and yet you find it ironic that youve been told off for debating......etc etc. We could go on slapping our thighs and laughing at the irony of it all day. But we wont.

Perhaps we will agree to disagree.

Nice hat.

You're not a stalker, I was joking.

What happened was basically I got told off for disagreeing and discussing my point. That offended my huge beautiful egotisitical persona enough for me to state that I thought this a forum for debate and that was all I was doing? Then I get told off telling me to stop being precious for debating on a place for debate. Which I found amusing and ironic.

Poor Archer, getting picked on by the regulars because he has a better hat than them.

You'll learn to love me. I'm sure of it. Especially when you realise I am merely wearing pants to go with my hat. I'm not sure what we are even agreeing to disagree on but hand is always there for a virtual cyber hand shake or whatever the cool kids call it these days.

My humble apologies to all that have had to read this slight de-rail of thread.

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