Again 365 days revenue blah blah (1 Viewer)

AFCCOVENTRY · Nov 26, 2014

Waggott said he believed the club would be at the Ricoh Arena for the next four to five years but underlined the need, under rules governing how much football clubs can spend on players, for the club to generate revenue 365 days a year from its stadium.

“The simplest way of looking at it is that I can give 60p in every £1 we generate to Steven Pressley to put on the pitch,” he said. “So we have to maximise our revenue streams in order to put the best team on the pitch because the success of the first team in 90 minutes on a Saturday shapes the 90 hours of work we do the following week.”

Read more at http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/...oventry-city-2105446.aspx#0b1Up9MYLTgXcqCU.99

And how are you going to do that for the next 4-5 years when you don't own a stake in the stadium operating company? Why would Wasps give ccfc access to their acl revenues for 365 days?

RFC · Nov 26, 2014

AFCCOVENTRY said:
Waggott said he believed the club would be at the Ricoh Arena for the next four to five years but underlined the need, under rules governing how much football clubs can spend on players, for the club to generate revenue 365 days a year from its stadium.

“The simplest way of looking at it is that I can give 60p in every £1 we generate to Steven Pressley to put on the pitch,” he said. “So we have to maximise our revenue streams in order to put the best team on the pitch because the success of the first team in 90 minutes on a Saturday shapes the 90 hours of work we do the following week.”

Read more at http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/...oventry-city-2105446.aspx#0b1Up9MYLTgXcqCU.99

And how are you going to do that for the next 4-5 years when you don't own a stake in the stadium operating company? Why would Wasps give ccfc access to their acl revenues?

How do you know what access Wasps have to any revenues?

Think you might have forgotten the Compass catering deal (which still has several years to come) and the car parking has also been contracted out to a private company.

The future of the club lies with either it or it's owners owning, controlling and having access to ALL revenues 24/7, 365!

Not my view but that of the majority of football finance analysts and experts.

PUSB!

RoboCCFC90 · Nov 26, 2014

In fairness - and I plan not to go into this argument for the millionth time - SW is right, we will be more successful dependent on how much money we are able to put into bringing decent players, there is nothing wrong with that.

To add: As a business it makes financial sense on so many levels, however the issue people will have is how the owners of our Club have explored the opportunity of this option.

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skybluetony176 · Nov 26, 2014

I wonder how many clubs who own their ground actually have 365 days a year income from them?

Sub · Nov 26, 2014

RFC said:
How do you know what access Wasps have to any revenues?

Think you might have forgotten the Compass catering deal (which still has several years to come) and the car parking has also been contracted out to a private company.

The future of the club lies with either it or it's owners owning, controlling and having access to ALL revenues 24/7, 365!

Not my view but that of the majority of football finance analysts and experts.

PUSB!

SISU should of brought the stadium when they had the chance instead of trying to get it through distressing another company, that way they would of owned the stadium and had the 365 days revenue they so wanted, simple really. We are in this mess because of SISU our owners.

But on the plus side when they build there new stadium they will have what they want, plus another 30million debt on top of whatever debt they have already stuck on the club :facepalm:

ccfcway · Nov 26, 2014

60p in the pound, perfect !!

I assume Pressley has about 2 million to spend from the Wilson sale then for a promotion push

The Reverend Skyblue · Nov 26, 2014

Is the sixty pence to cover all the wages on and off the pitch including the staffing for the team and office staff.
just asking what this sixty pence the club gets is supposed to cover, does it mean SISU will pocket the other 40 pence to cover these astronomical management charges

Nick · Nov 26, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
I wonder how many clubs who own their ground actually have 365 days a year income from them?

Why wouldn't they?

stupot07 · Nov 26, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
I wonder how many clubs who own their ground actually have 365 days a year income from them?

Pretty much all of them have some form of 365 day a year income from their stadium. Some examples....

http://www.leytonorient.com/commercial/conferencingevents/

http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/commercial/functions/index.aspx

http://www.lutontown.co.uk/commercial/dinners_events/

http://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/commercial/events.aspx

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skybluepm2 · Nov 26, 2014

Read it earlier and rolled my eyes as per usual. Talk about towing the party line. Why don't those 2 clowns at CWR dare to ask the question as to what Scrotium are hoping gain by being open 365 days a year in a 2 bit, 5th tier (at least by the time it is built) football stadium? Conferencing perhaps? Nope, I'm sure the Ricoh will take prescedence for that..concerts? Nope, see above answer. It really is the biggest load of bollocks I have heard since Fishcake declared that 7,000 would follow the sound of his flute down to Shitfields.

Why aren't journalists demanding the important questions? Why did laughobitch say that the new site was 3 weeks away almost a year ago? How do you intend to fund a stadium let alone recover costs when an already dwindling fan base will have to travel outside of the city to watch the club? Securing land never takes this long, what are the precise issues? Wouldn't it be far more feasible to secure a cheaper long term lease with Wasps as opposed to alienating yet more fans with a poxy make believe ground outside of the city boundaries? Are you still persisting with your fruitless pursuit of the JR? In hindsight, do you wish you'd have acted more rationally given that Wasps have secured ownership of the stadium in its entirety for arguably a cheaper price than you had originally planned to pay? Are you still persisting with the hullabaloo that you weren't attempting to distress ACL in order to obtain the ground on the cheap? Do you think that SISU have acted in the correct manner over the past 18 months? Should you have actually made the disastrous move to Sixfields? Was Paul Appleton given significant backhanders in order to approve that Otium were the preffered bidder as opposed to Haskell IV? Should Tim Fisher be in a job given the sheer destruction he has caused the club since day one?

A few of the above would be a start. Grow some bollocks ffs.

ccfc1234 · Nov 26, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
I wonder how many clubs who own their ground actually have 365 days a year income from them?

I think he means if we sell a ticket on a non match day or sell merchandise the money goes into the club 100% and not 60p in the pound as he quoted.

skybluetony176 · Nov 26, 2014

stupot07 said:
Pretty much all of them have some form of 365 day a year income from their stadium. Some examples....

http://www.leytonorient.com/commercial/conferencingevents/

http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/commercial/functions/index.aspx

http://www.lutontown.co.uk/commercial/dinners_events/

http://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/commercial/events.aspx

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

We would have facilities available 365 I understood that. I guess my real question is how many of these facilities are booked 365days a year? I can't help but feel the importance and the benefit is being over sold. I'm not saying extra income isn't available but is it really 365 or is it once during a week for a birthday party, Saturday for a wedding and the odd Sunday for a christening? What you will have is 365 days a year of running costs will the profit cover the overheads and what will be left for team investment?

wince · Nov 26, 2014

Read it earlier and rolled my eyes as per usual. Talk about towing the party line. Why don't those 2 clowns at CWR dare to ask the question as to what Scrotium are hoping gain by being open 365 days a year in a 2 bit, 5th tier (at least by the time it is built) football stadium? Conferencing perhaps? Nope, I'm sure the Ricoh will take prescedence for that..concerts? Nope, see above answer. It really is the biggest load of bollocks I have heard since Fishcake declared that 7,000 would follow the sound of his flute down to Shitfields.

Why aren't journalists demanding the important questions? Why did laughobitch say that the new site was 3 weeks away almost a year ago? How do you intend to fund a stadium let alone recover costs when an already dwindling fan base will have to travel outside of the city to watch the club? Securing land never takes this long, what are the precise issues? Wouldn't it be far more feasible to secure a cheaper long term lease with Wasps as opposed to alienating yet more fans with a poxy make believe ground outside of the city boundaries? Are you still persisting with your fruitless pursuit of the JR? In hindsight, do you wish you'd have acted more rationally given that Wasps have secured ownership of the stadium in its entirety for arguably a cheaper price than you had originally planned to pay? Are you still persisting with the hullabaloo that you weren't attempting to distress ACL in order to obtain the ground on the cheap? Do you think that SISU have acted in the correct manner over the past 18 months? Should you have actually made the disastrous move to Sixfields? Was Paul Appleton given significant backhanders in order to approve that Otium were the preffered bidder as opposed to Haskell IV? Should Tim Fisher be in a job given the sheer destruction he has caused the club since day one?

A few of the above would be a start. Grow some bollocks ffs.

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skybluetony176 · Nov 26, 2014

Nick said:
Why wouldn't they?

Why would they?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Nov 26, 2014

I agree we need control of our own revenue streams however..

The thing that never gets picked up on is the 60% of income line trotted out everytime this is brought up, the 60% rule only applies in L1. If you get promoted to the championship you can spend whatever you like as long as the losses don't exceed a certain number and the rules have been changed recently in the championship. So you don't get punished in the championship now unless your losses are more than £39 million over 3 years, nothing to do with % of turnover like in league 1.

So my question, since this line is trotted out over and over again. Is the long term aim then to be a league 1 club since they keep using the league 1 ffp rules as reason to why we need a new stadium which won't be ready for another 5 to 6 years.

stupot07 · Nov 26, 2014

skybluetony176 said:
We would have facilities available 365 I understood that. I guess my real question is how many of these facilities are booked 365days a year? I can't help but feel the importance and the benefit is being over sold. I'm not saying extra income isn't available but is it really 365 or is it once during a week for a birthday party, Saturday for a wedding and the odd Sunday for a christening? What you will have is 365 days a year of running costs will the profit cover the overheads and what will be left for team investment?

i would imagine they have things running at least 2-3 times a week - i doubt the Jaguar Exhibition Hall is used every day or in fact every week. its absolutely pointless asking about the finances because non of us know how many events, what kind of events, what the profit margin of these events are, etc. However there must be profit in it otherwise the other 91 league clubs wouldn't bother doing it.

the problem we tend to pick on one theme in a thread - we're honing on an 365 day revenues, but there is a lot of other ways to make extra revenue to what we get now:

- events, conferences, meetings, weddings, etc
- food and beverages
- selling stadium naming rights
- getting the stands sponsored
- pitchside advertising
- external advertising
- car park
- selling bits of land
- hospitality
- renting to a PL U21 team

etc. now none of us know how much money that would bring in compared to mortgage and maintenance costs and also reduction in fans, but we would be paying a contribution to maintenance at the ricoh as part of the matchday costs and also rent.

unless we see a proper business plan we have no idea on whether a new ground is viable or not. What we do know is that a matchday only little/no access to matchday and additional revenues rental deal leaves us with one of the lowest turnovers in the championship (2011/12 - £10.5m (15.5k) bottom 3-4 in the league).

ROCK <ccfc> HARD PLACE

skybluetony176 · Nov 26, 2014

stupot07 said:
i would imagine they have things running at least 2-3 times a week - i doubt the Jaguar Exhibition Hall is used every day or in fact every week. its absolutely pointless asking about the finances because non of us know how many events, what kind of events, what the profit margin of these events are, etc. However there must be profit in it otherwise the other 91 league clubs wouldn't bother doing it.

the problem we tend to pick on one theme in a thread - we're honing on an 365 day revenues, but there is a lot of other ways to make extra revenue to what we get now:

- events, conferences, meetings, weddings, etc
- food and beverages
- selling stadium naming rights
- getting the stands sponsored
- pitchside advertising
- external advertising
- car park
- selling bits of land
- hospitality
- renting to a PL U21 team

etc. now none of us know how much money that would bring in compared to mortgage and maintenance costs and also reduction in fans, but we would be paying a contribution to maintenance at the ricoh as part of the matchday costs and also rent.

unless we see a proper business plan we have no idea on whether a new ground is viable or not. What we do know is that a matchday only little/no access to matchday and additional revenues rental deal leaves us with one of the lowest turnovers in the championship (2011/12 - £10.5m (15.5k) bottom 3-4 in the league).

ROCK <ccfc> HARD PLACE

Thats along the lines of what I was thinking. I would imagine alot of clubs use the extra income to cover stadium operating costs not invest in the team. Which is fine but thats not how its being (or attempted to being) sold to us.

Perhaps the SCG could ask to see the 365 business plan for the new stadium. Who knows, give it 3 months and we might get an artists impression of what the plan might look like

I'm guessing the binder will be sky blue

albatross · Nov 26, 2014

Stupot07 on another thread you posted that ACL only made £750K in its present form and I presume that that includes the

- events, conferences, meetings, weddings, etc
- food and beverages
- selling stadium naming rights
- getting the stands sponsored
- pitchside advertising
- external advertising
- car park
- selling bits of land
- hospitality
- renting to a PL U21 team

From above post.

I think that your assessment is fair so in reality unless they go into property development on the site then we will have to eat more pies and drink more beer than any supporters in history to make any significant contribution.

Does this not poke a hole in the 365 revenue argument.

I know that the Premier league clubs have the Sky revenue but how much do clubs like Man U or Liverpool make from their grounds? I would imagine it is insignificant to other revenue streams

bigfatronssba · Nov 26, 2014

albatross said:
Stupot07 on another thread you posted that ACL only made £750K in its present form and I presume that that includes the

- events, conferences, meetings, weddings, etc
- food and beverages
- selling stadium naming rights
- getting the stands sponsored
- pitchside advertising
- external advertising
- car park
- selling bits of land
- hospitality
- renting to a PL U21 team

From above post.

I think that your assessment is fair so in reality unless they go into property development on the site then we will have to eat more pies and drink more beer than any supporters in history to make any significant contribution.

Does this not poke a hole in the 365 revenue argument.

I know that the Premier league clubs have the Sky revenue but how much do clubs like Man U or Liverpool make from their grounds? I would imagine it is insignificant to other revenue streams

I was thinking the same. If a major venue such as the Ricoh can only generate £750k a year, what chance would some little tin shed in the sticks have of generating significant revenue?

All serious events and exhibitions in the area will still be held at the Ricoh and nowhere else.

Ian1779 · Nov 26, 2014

If having the stadium and access to 365 revenues were so insignificant, can someone explain why a certain Mr Gidney said that these were worth in excess of £20m for someone to buy??

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Nov 26, 2014

The stadium naming rights would be 500k-1 million alone wouldn't it per year? Wasn't the Ricoh 10 years for £10 million?

bigfatronssba · Nov 26, 2014

Ian1779 said:
If having the stadium and access to 365 revenues were so insignificant, can someone explain why a certain Mr Gidney said that these were worth in excess of £20m for someone to buy??

For the same reason Mr Fisher said they were worth nothing.

Seller will big it up, buyer plays it down.

stupot07 · Nov 26, 2014

albatross said:
Stupot07 on another thread you posted that ACL only made £750K in its present form and I presume that that includes the

- events, conferences, meetings, weddings, etc
- food and beverages
- selling stadium naming rights
- getting the stands sponsored
- pitchside advertising
- external advertising
- car park
- selling bits of land
- hospitality
- renting to a PL U21 team

From above post.

I think that your assessment is fair so in reality unless they go into property development on the site then we will have to eat more pies and drink more beer than any supporters in history to make any significant contribution.

Does this not poke a hole in the 365 revenue argument.

I know that the Premier league clubs have the Sky revenue but how much do clubs like Man U or Liverpool make from their grounds? I would imagine it is insignificant to other revenue streams

how do you get to the PL when you have one of the lowest turnovers in the second tier because? you're comparing apples with oranges, Swansea took £6m profit out of their stadium last year, even with the massive PL/TV rights that isnt an insignificant amount.

you're forgetting that a lot of the profit is tied up in the deal with Compass to deliver events, that's why they only make c10% on F&B's. ACL sold contract's off for short term gain.

remind me why Wasps wanted/needed to buy their own stadium?

stupot07 · Nov 26, 2014

More than 1,7000 Wasps fans signed a petition opposing the move from High Wycombe, their home of 12 years, and while captain James Haskell called it “sad” he insists the club had “no choice”.
“A lot of the fans have been shielded from the true reality – that we were an hour away from going bankrupt; that for every pound spent at Adams Park, we get 50 per cent of it,” he said. “You can’t sustain a business on gates of 5,000. You can’t lose £3m a year in any walk of life. This was about survival.”

Ian1779 · Nov 26, 2014

bigfatronssba said:
For the same reason Mr Fisher said they were worth nothing.

Seller will big it up, buyer plays it down.

Don't think Fisher ever said the 365 revenues were worth nothing. He may well have said that due to ACL tieing everything up to Compass makes it worth considerably less to another buyer.

What exactly did Compass pay for those F&B rights? The deal was in excess of £100m wasn't it?

Not bad for something insignificant.

stupot07 · Nov 26, 2014

Nearly 3,000 supporters have signed an online petition aimed at keeping Wasps in west London, but the club will move to Coventry'sRicoh Arenain December. Eastwood admitted relief fans did not vent latent anger during Wasps' hardfought Bath victory, then backed the club's followers to appreciate the "move or die" ground switch.He said: "I think the majority of supporters will come."A number at the fans' forum said they just can't do it because of work commitments but most people have said they are coming."
The Wasps chief executive admitted sympathy with supporters upset after the club bought a controlling stake in Arena Coventry Limited (ACL), the company which runs the Ricoh, from Coventry City Council.
Eastwood said owner
Derek Richardson's millions would have only lasted four more years renting in Wycombe.He added: "Derek's already spent Pounds 10million, another Pounds 4million a year, another four years, Pounds 20million. At that point you're dependent on whether someone else will step in."

italiahorse · Nov 26, 2014

stupot07 said:
how do you get to the PL when you have one of the lowest turnovers in the second tier because? you're comparing apples with oranges, Swansea took £6m profit out of their stadium last year, even with the massive PL/TV rights that isnt an insignificant amount.

you're forgetting that a lot of the profit is tied up in the deal with Compass to deliver events, that's why they only make c10% on F&B's. ACL sold contract's off for short term gain.

remind me why Wasps wanted/needed to buy their own stadium?

If Blackpool can do it anybody can.
Don't make excuses for Sisu about it all being F&B it's been poor bloody management from top to bottom.

Wasps needed a home to build from and F&B is just a part of it.
Remains to be seen how good their management is, but since they have been here it's looking good for them.
It will be great if we can get a favourable rent and access to the revenues we create.

Ian1779 · Nov 26, 2014

italiahorse said:
Wasps needed a home to build from and F&B is just a part of it.

CCFC needed a home... shame that they never got to buy one at the same price that Wasps got it for.

You can thank your friends at the council for that.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Nov 26, 2014

stupot07 said:
how do you get to the PL when you have one of the lowest turnovers in the second tier because? you're comparing apples with oranges, Swansea took £6m profit out of their stadium last year, even with the massive PL/TV rights that isnt an insignificant amount.

you're forgetting that a lot of the profit is tied up in the deal with Compass to deliver events, that's why they only make c10% on F&B's. ACL sold contract's off for short term gain.

remind me why Wasps wanted/needed to buy their own stadium?

I would imagine that Ford etc paid more to advertise at Swanseas sradium than The Venus Fishbar did at The Ricoh.

italiahorse · Nov 26, 2014

Ian1779 said:
CCFC needed a home... shame that they never got to buy one at the same price that Wasps got it for.

You can thank your friends at the council for that.

The price Wasps get it was at market value thanks to Sisu driving the price down.
Sisu offered a similar price but with conditions, effectively not the best offer.

Would you sell your car to someone who lowered the value first by nicking the wheels ?

stupot07 · Nov 26, 2014

italiahorse said:
If Blackpool can do it anybody can.

How often does a Blackpool happen? A perfect storm of the right mixture of manager, players, at the right time? They were a once 15-20 years event. Since then the PL has increased it's tv money and increase and extended the parachute payments. By the time we get back to the championship in a stable condition it will be even harder to do a 'Blackpool'.

italiahorse said:
Don't make excuses for Sisu about it all being F&B it's been poor bloody management from top to bottom.

I'm not making any excuse for sisu, they messed up big style, I've always said they should have purchased the stadium and slashed the wage bill to stabilise costs as soon as they came in. Fact is to achieve anything we need to access as much matchday and additional revenues as possible.

italiahorse said:
It will be great if we can get a favourable rent and access to the revenues we create.

Yes that would be great, but not very likely, they need to make money from us being there. It's not in their interests to do that. There's also the complication of the compass deal. They are in the box seat here, not us. It still doesn't help in the long term future .

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stupot07 · Nov 26, 2014

italiahorse said:
The price Wasps get it was at market value thanks to Sisu driving the price down.
Sisu offered a similar price but with conditions, effectively not the best offer.

How do we know? We have not idea what the 'conditions' were.

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italiahorse · Nov 26, 2014

stupot07 said:
How do we know? We have not idea what the 'conditions' were.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I hazard a guess the conditions were in Sisu's favour rather than Higgs.
Sounded they wanted to go in some sort of community partnership with them.

Noggin · Nov 27, 2014

AFCCOVENTRY said:
Waggott said he believed the club would be at the Ricoh Arena for the next four to five years but underlined the need, under rules governing how much football clubs can spend on players, for the club to generate revenue 365 days a year from its stadium.

“The simplest way of looking at it is that I can give 60p in every £1 we generate to Steven Pressley to put on the pitch,” he said. “So we have to maximise our revenue streams in order to put the best team on the pitch because the success of the first team in 90 minutes on a Saturday shapes the 90 hours of work we do the following week.”

Read more at http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/...oventry-city-2105446.aspx#0b1Up9MYLTgXcqCU.99

And how are you going to do that for the next 4-5 years when you don't own a stake in the stadium operating company? Why would Wasps give ccfc access to their acl revenues for 365 days?

We all know you can Steve, the question is, are you? because if you aren't (and I don't believe that you are) then everything you've said is at best misleading and in many cases just outright lies.

RoboCCFC90 · Nov 27, 2014

Noggin said:
We all know you can Steve, the question is, are you? because if you aren't (and I don't believe that you are) then everything you've said is at best misleading and in many cases just outright lies.

I'd love to know why you would think that, unless privy to that sort of information whereby your post becomes accurate..

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Again 365 days revenue blah blah (1 Viewer)

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