Alan Higgs Charity (1 Viewer)

The Gentleman · Jan 16, 2014

With what has come out today, which although doesn't surprise does disgust me. With what has been organised in the past with regards to CCFC, would it be possible to organise some sort of petition or written document from the people of Coventry and the surrounding area that this charity has helped and the people and families who have benefited from the charity. The document could contain brief stories both happy and sad and that it be sent to media outlets such as newspapers, radio and TV and fellow football clubs. I know some people on here would pour scorn on the idea, but to me, the shame and embarrassment that Sisu should feel from this is massive. I have seen in the past how companies who go after charities have been vilified, maybe this is a route that could be taken. It's just an idea, do people think there is any legs in it?

GaryPendrysEyes · Jan 16, 2014

Great idea. Not sure how you go about setting up an online petition or like, maybe others know (?)....

SkyBlueScottie · Jan 16, 2014

What would the wording be?

covcity4life · Jan 16, 2014

a cunning idea......................

Fletch · Jan 16, 2014

SkyBlueScottie said:
What would the wording be?

I am totally disgusted that the owner's of Coventry City FC have affected their legal right to defend their position following the litigation action brought upon them by The Alan Higgs Trust. I fully support the use of charitable funds on legal action just as I support the use of said funds to be spent on PR agencies.

shmmeee · Jan 16, 2014

Fletch said:
I am totally disgusted that the owner's of Coventry City FC have affected their legal right to defend their position following the litigation action brought upon them by The Alan Higgs Trust. I fully support the use of charitable funds on legal action just as I support the use of said funds to be spent on PR agencies.

Sources for any of that or just ranting?

Samo · Jan 16, 2014

Fletch said:
I am totally disgusted that the owner's of Coventry City FC have affected their legal right to defend their position following the litigation action brought upon them by The Alan Higgs Trust. I fully support the use of charitable funds on legal action just as I support the use of said funds to be spent on PR agencies.

I hope your typing from an Anderson shelter.

skybluejelly · Jan 16, 2014

I am not saying Higgs are in the wrong ..but just because they are a charity does to make them untouchable... I have personal experience of court cases with charities and you would be surprised how many settle out of court and make you sign a non disclosure agreement... Ps in no way am I implying this is the case with the Alan Higgs trust..

thaiskyblue · Jan 16, 2014

AndreasB said:
my FUCKING POINT old bean is that once charities enter the murky world of local politics and hedge funds they end up with the potential to be compromised.

What do you mean by compromised, is that sisu speak for tucked up ?

The Gentleman · Jan 16, 2014

AndreasB said:
my FUCKING POINT old bean is that once charities enter the murky world of local politics and hedge funds they end up with the potential to be compromised.

So just because they want to increase the potential to help more people less fortunate than others, they are fair game and it's open season is it?

shmmeee · Jan 16, 2014

AndreasB said:
my FUCKING POINT old bean is that once charities enter the murky world of local politics and hedge funds they end up with the potential to be compromised.

Perhaps you want to make an actual accusation? What are you alleging happened?

thaiskyblue · Jan 16, 2014

Samo said:
I hope your typing from an Anderson shelter.

i hope not that would mean he's my next door neighbour.

skybluetom · Jan 16, 2014

For crying out loud, the Higgs sued the club! The club can counter sue if they really want to. If the Higgs have done nothing wrong then they haven't got anything to fear.

chiefdave · Jan 16, 2014

skybluetom said:
For crying out loud, the Higgs sued the club! The club can counter sue if they really want to. If the Higgs have done nothing wrong then they haven't got anything to fear.

No one has said they fear it but while this case is pending they will be paying out legal costs and wasting time when they could be getting on with doing good in the community.

Nick · Jan 16, 2014

chiefdave said:
No one has said they fear it but while this case is pending they will be paying out legal costs and wasting time when they could be getting on with doing good in the community.

Surely it is different people though? They won't stop doing good, they will have other people doing that.

Grendel · Jan 16, 2014

chiefdave said:
No one has said they fear it but while this case is pending they will be paying out legal costs and wasting time when they could be getting on with doing good in the community.

Well they should have done their "due dillegence" then shouldn't they as this is a very predictable outcome.

RPHunt · Jan 16, 2014

Higgs mission statement: "The Charity Fund shall be applied as far as may be practicable in the promotion of child welfare and particularly the welfare of under privileged children".

SISU mission statement: "We batter people in court".

What is there for the charity to fear by locking horns in a legal battle with these vermin?

skybluetom · Jan 16, 2014

chiefdave said:
No one has said they fear it but while this case is pending they will be paying out legal costs and wasting time when they could be getting on with doing good in the community.

That's the cost of taking legal action though to be fair. If they're taking out justified legal action the costs will be incurred by Sisu anyway plus they'll be 30 grand up, if they end up losing it's sad but charity or not they have to act within the law.

chiefdave · Jan 16, 2014

Nick said:
Surely it is different people though? They won't stop doing good, they will have other people doing that.

What about cashflow, if they have to divert funds to pay legal fees knowing they won't get them reimburssed until months down the line when they go to court and get awarded costs it could lead to issues.

None of us know if it will impact on the Higgs regular activites and neither do SISU but we all know there is a risk it could.

chiefdave · Jan 16, 2014

Grendel said:
Well they should have done their "due dillegence" then shouldn't they as this is a very predictable outcome.

So you think a charity should have just written off money owed to them?

shmmeee · Jan 16, 2014

skybluetom said:
For crying out loud, the Higgs sued the club! The club can counter sue if they really want to. If the Higgs have done nothing wrong then they haven't got anything to fear.

Ah the call of the facist!

chiefdave · Jan 16, 2014

skybluetom said:
That's the cost of taking legal action though to be fair. If they're taking out justified legal action the costs will be incurred by Sisu anyway plus they'll be 30 grand up, if they end up losing it's sad but charity or not they have to act within the law.

One doesn't automatically follow the other. If you owed me 30K and you hadn't paid I would take you to court, why does it then automatically follow that you would take me to court?

Their legal costs will get repaid eventually but it will have cashflow implications in the meantime, on top of the cashflow implications of the amount SISU already owe. They're not really going to £30K up at any point are they? It's money they would never have spent if the sale of the share in ACL wasn't being considered.

skybluetom · Jan 16, 2014

shmmeee said:
Ah the call of the facist!

Eh?

Grendel · Jan 16, 2014

chiefdave said:
So you think a charity should have just written off money owed to them?

In truth I don't really care - that's their problem not mine.

RoboCCFC90 · Jan 16, 2014

chiefdave said:
So you think a charity should have just written off money owed to them?

What I think Grendel is trying to say is that the Higgs Trust should have known being Counter Sued was a real possibility when taking Sisu to court.

skybluetom · Jan 16, 2014

chiefdave said:
One doesn't automatically follow the other. If you owed me 30K and you hadn't paid I would take you to court, why does it then automatically follow that you would take me to court?

Their legal costs will get repaid eventually but it will have cashflow implications in the meantime, on top of the cashflow implications of the amount SISU already owe. They're not really going to £30K up at any point are they? It's money they would never have spent if the sale of the share in ACL wasn't being considered.

It doesn't but the club feels they have the right to do that for whatever reason which they're entitled to do.

It's fair point but surely they'd have considered issues like cash flow before starting legal action? They'd have lawyers, accountants like anybody else advising them on what to do.

thaiskyblue · Jan 16, 2014

skybluetom said:
It doesn't but the club feels they have the right to do that for whatever reason which they're entitled to do.

It's fair point but surely they'd have considered issues like cash flow before starting legal action? They'd have lawyers, accountants like anybody else advising them on what to do.

Shame they don't put the efforts into the team.

SkyblueBazza · Jan 16, 2014

The Gentleman said:
So just because they want to increase the potential to help more people less fortunate than others, they are fair game and it's open season is it?

I think the very valid point is that Charities have to be very very careful how they operate.
They cannot go around stitching-up others & expect to get away with it. SISU are (it seems) likely to be suggesting that this is what this charity has done by certain actions (that I have no idea about).
Just like they cannot go about raising funds by robbing people in the street, or nicking cars then selling them on without facing the courts & subsequent punishment.

PUSB

skybluetom · Jan 16, 2014

It's all very easy to paint the charity as the saints and Sisu as the sinners but nobody actually knows what's happened. It'll all come out eventually, untill then it's rather pointless speculating.

shmmeee · Jan 16, 2014

skybluetom said:
Eh?

"If you've done nothing wrong, you've for nothing to fear/hide" is a standard call put out by authoritarian powers to justify intrusion into the lives of the populous.

The problem is twofold: everyone has done something "wrong" according to someone. If you disagree are you OK with me following you around with a camera for the rest of your life live streaming to the internet? If not, why not?

Secondly, who defines "wrong". many many things are illegal (or legal) technically but not in the spirit of the law. See murderers who get off thanks to a paperwork error or businesses that subvert laws against their intention.

In this instance you're saying it's OK to tie the charity's time and money up because justice will be done eventually.

Firstly this shows a massive trust in the justice system that evidence wouldn't support and secondly it implies that in theory it would be OK for Sisu to send case after case Higgs' way regardless of the cost or implications.

Would you like to be put on charge for rape or paedophilia? Even if you know you've done nothing wrong? If not, you understand the point.

James Smith · Jan 16, 2014

Sir Higgs and his Dad must be spinning in their graves at this news.

skybluetom · Jan 16, 2014

shmmeee said:
"If you've done nothing wrong, you've for nothing to fear/hide" is a standard call put out by authoritarian powers to justify intrusion into the lives of the populous.

The problem is twofold: everyone has done something "wrong" according to someone. If you disagree are you OK with me following you around with a camera for the rest of your life live streaming to the internet? If not, why not?

Secondly, who defines "wrong". many many things are illegal (or legal) technically but not in the spirit of the law. See murderers who get off thanks to a paperwork error or businesses that subvert laws against their intention.

In this instance you're saying it's OK to tie the charity's time and money up because justice will be done eventually.

Firstly this shows a massive trust in the justice system that evidence wouldn't support and secondly it implies that in theory it would be OK for Sisu to send case after case Higgs' way regardless of the cost or implications.

Would you like to be put on charge for rape or paedophilia? Even if you know you've done nothing wrong? If not, you understand the point.

With respect, that's rather a silly post. We're talking about the Higgs taking Sisu court over an unpaid bill and Sisu counter claiming, not a fascist regime throwing people in jail via show trials or talking about murderers, rapists and paedophiles.

bigfatronssba · Jan 16, 2014

skybluetom said:
It's all very easy to paint the charity as the saints and Sisu as the sinners but nobody actually knows what's happened. It'll all come out eventually, untill then it's rather pointless speculating.

Lets look at what we do know then.

* In 2003 the Higgs Charity saved CCFC from administration, which could have resulted in the club disappearing as no one was waiting in the wings.

* The Higgs Charity provided the club with a home for 8 years.

* The Higgs Charity would have allowed the club to buy half the Ricoh at a competitive rate.

* The Higgs Charity allows CCFC to have a cat 2 academy, without which the team would now be nothing.

* The Higgs Charity provides excellent sports facilities in one of the most deprived areas of the city.

* The Higgs Charity have helped countless Coventry children from deprived backgrounds.

What have Sisu ever done for the City of Coventry? (No Monty Python references please)

ccfcway · Jan 16, 2014

skybluetom said:
It'll all come out eventually,

yer, just like CCFC accounts !

skybluetom · Jan 16, 2014

bigfatronssba said:
Lets look at what we do know then.

* In 2003 the Higgs Charity saved CCFC from administration, which could have resulted in the club disappearing as no one was waiting in the wings.

* The Higgs Charity provided the club with a home for 8 years.

* The Higgs Charity would have allowed the club to buy half the Ricoh at a competitive rate.

* The Higgs Charity allows CCFC to have a cat 2 academy, without which the team would now be nothing.

* The Higgs Charity provides excellent sports facilities in one of the most deprived areas of the city.

* The Higgs Charity have helped countless Coventry children from deprived backgrounds.

What have Sisu ever done for the City of Coventry? (No Monty Python references please)

Sisu saved the club from admin in '07 and while the Higgs did own half the ground we played at they were rewarded with a share of the huge rent we were paying (which they were fully entitled).

You're missing my point, I don't doubt they're a wonderful organisation. They've given away millions solely to help deprived people in the city of Coventry but if they choose to launch legal action against somebody (in this case Sisu) then the other party have a right to defend themselves or counter sue if they think they have grounds to.

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