Alternative to a New Stadium (1 Viewer)

KG7 · Apr 2, 2015

I've been mulling over this for a while so thought I'd throw it out and see if this sounds like a viable option for Sisu.

The rent at The Ricoh is, by all accounts an excellent deal for Sisu and the football club - there are no outgoings beyond the rent and even a small incoming in the form of a split of money on match days. The only problem with this is that they can't make any money for the club for the remaining days of the year. I think this is a valid and prominent issue, but perhaps not one that deserves the cost, disruption, and controversy that building a new stadium would bring.

But why not build a small arena or conference centre instead and continue playing at The Ricoh paying the small matter of 100k a season?

This would keep a steady flow of cash coming in and if they wanted to they could even turn it into a Coventry City FC complex by combining it with a training ground and academy etc.

Jackoskyblue · Apr 2, 2015

Or why don't they build two pubs around the ground one for away fans one for home fans get in a company to run it and keep the profits from both ccfc and wasps fans using them. I like the point you make. The thing I don't understand is if you were looking to have a conference or concert why would people use sisus stadium and not the ricoh

KG7 · Apr 2, 2015

Jackoskyblue said:
Or why don't they build two pubs around the ground one for away fans one for home fans get in a company to run it and keep the profits from both ccfc and wasps fans using them. I like the point you make. The thing I don't understand is if you were looking to have a conference or concert why would people use sisus stadium and not the ricoh

Smaller conference? Smaller fee? I don't know. Either way it's an argument against building SOMETHING but if they must build something to make money, why not be a bit more creative with what that thing is and take advantage of the low rent at The Ricoh?

Pubs could be a good idea - but I doubt they'd be able to build them around the ground, plus they couldn't make money off these 24/7.

RFC · Apr 2, 2015

KG7 said:
I've been mulling over this for a while so thought I'd throw it out and see if this sounds like a viable option for Sisu.

The rent at The Ricoh is, by all accounts an excellent deal for Sisu and the football club - there are no outgoings beyond the rent and even a small incoming in thYe form of a split of money on match days. The only problem with this is that they can't make any money for the club for the remaining days of the year. I think this is a valid and prominent issue, but perhaps not one that deserves the cost, disruption, and controversy that building a new stadium would bring.

But why not build a small arena or conference centre instead and continue playing at The Ricoh paying the small matter of 100k a season?

This would keep a steady flow of cash coming in and if they wanted to they could even turn it into a Coventry City FC complex by combining it with a training ground and academy etc.

The deal would not be sustainable in the Championship or above!

Gross revenue of ALL income streams from wholly owned stadium 364 days a year the only answer long term, FIFA FP rules.

ajsccfc · Apr 2, 2015

Which day are you closing shop there RFC?

KG7 · Apr 2, 2015

RFC said:
The deal would not be sustainable in the Championship or above!

Gross revenue of ALL income streams from wholly owned stadium 364 days a year the only answer long term, FIFA FP rules.

Why not?

A small arena or conference centre should give them almost exactly the same income stream as building a new stadium.

Otis · Apr 2, 2015

KG7 said:
I've been mulling over this for a while so thought I'd throw it out and see if this sounds like a viable option for Sisu.

The rent at The Ricoh is, by all accounts an excellent deal for Sisu and the football club - there are no outgoings beyond the rent and even a small incoming in the form of a split of money on match days. The only problem with this is that they can't make any money for the club for the remaining days of the year. I think this is a valid and prominent issue, but perhaps not one that deserves the cost, disruption, and controversy that building a new stadium would bring.

But why not build a small arena or conference centre instead and continue playing at The Ricoh paying the small matter of 100k a season?

This would keep a steady flow of cash coming in and if they wanted to they could even turn it into a Coventry City FC complex by combining it with a training ground and academy etc.

Think OSB58 talked about the same thing and we also talked about renting somewhere too.

If a supporters club was built somewhere and events were held and it was hired out etc., then that might be a way of making a bit of money.

If it is Sky Blue themed to you might also get City fans hiring it for birthday parties and anniversaries etc. It's a start at least.

Pretty much everyone to a man doesn't believe we will ever build a new stadium (apart from RFC, but I'm not even sure if he is even human, let alone a man), so it looks like we have to stay at the Ricoh. We therefore have to make it work and look at revenue streams elsewhere.

Philosoraptor · Apr 2, 2015

I like the thought of because you dont have a stadium you can't make money for non match events. Its more like they have never brought/rented any premises to host these events in...

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2015

As I understand it there is an area by the Ricoh known as the "Leisure land" Surely it is not beyond the wit of man to build a CCFC complex of shop, bars, restaurant and small event spaces or offices that would benefit the club. Build it there and the pub/restaurant could also benefit from the events put on at the Ricoh without actually paying to put those events on. It might even make the area feel a bit more like home. Seem to remember the pub by HR used to do ok ..... Mercers Arms wasn't it?

It would seem then that the only type of income that other clubs get they would not be getting is the stadium naming rights. But then with a fixed low rent they are not getting the associated stadium costs either

Like many situations there are always options if you are prepared to think outside the box a little.

Grendel · Apr 2, 2015

There is of course a huge flaw on this assumption. It assumes Moonstone wants to do business - given their track record - they won't.

skybluetony176 · Apr 2, 2015

KG7 said:
Why not?

A small arena or conference centre should give them almost exactly the same income stream as building a new stadium.

It's not that. It's because Tim said so and look how he turned Charlton's and our fortunes around and what a success he was in the banking industry. Why wouldn't you believe him?

PS it's all in the business plan that's been presented to the fans plus every football finance expert in the galaxy said so. Except the ones who have gone on record.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2015

RFC said:
The deal would not be sustainable in the Championship or above!

Gross revenue of ALL income streams from wholly owned stadium 364 days a year the only answer long term, FIFA FP rules.

what happens on the 365th day?

Sick Boy · Apr 2, 2015

What happens when the current deal expires and the 'good hedge fund' decide to up the rent?

To stay at the Ricoh is ok if we want to remain as a league 1 Club.

Grendel · Apr 2, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
what happens on the 365th day?

RFC wakes up when Tim Fisher finds him lying in the middle of the Ricoh and delivers loves first kiss.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2015

Grendel said:
There is of course a huge flaw on this assumption. It assumes Moonstone wants to do business - given their track record - they won't.

Do they own the lease on the Leisure land? or is it still a freehold plot with CCC?

I thought everyone agreed that Wasps want CCFC at the Ricoh. Why wont they do business if CCFC is prepared to commit to being there?

There might be a rent adjustment certainly but if its a long term deal then it can be fixed

Just alternative and less costly ideas that get CCFC income streams 365 days a year

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 2, 2015

Sick Boy said:
What happens when the current deal expires and the 'good hedge fund' decide to up the rent?

To stay at the Ricoh is ok if we want to remain as a league 1 Club.

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 2, 2015

See you don't know everything

Broken Hearted Sky Blue · Apr 2, 2015

You're right 5000 for home games plus two weddings and an engagement a year has got to be worth a lot more than trying to get 20-25000 into the Ricoh every game I'm with you RFC

KG7 · Apr 2, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
Do they own the lease on the Leisure land? or is it still a freehold plot with CCC?

I thought everyone agreed that Wasps want CCFC at the Ricoh. Why wont they do business if CCFC is prepared to commit to being there?

There might be a rent adjustment certainly but if its a long term deal then it can be fixed

Just alternative and less costly ideas that get CCFC income streams 365 days a year

Agree with this and previous posts OSB58.

I think if Sisu are insistent that they need to access alternative revenues (and I can see the strength of this argument), then this is an avenue that they should be considering.

Of course, the stadium rent fee will rise should the club rise through the leagues, but if Northampton was good for one thing, it was good for strengthening SISUs hand when it comes to negotiating rent at The Ricoh. As OSB58 has pointed out, Wasps have openly admitted they need the club, so I assume they would be more interested in negotiating a reasonable rent increase than watching us up sticks to Northampton again.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2015

So looking at the incomes they get now that every FL team gets

Match tickets
Match packages
Hospitality packages
Pitch side advertising
Sponsorship - shirt, kit, player, corners etc
Prog sales
TV money
FL prize money
solidarity payments
shop sales
lottery?
commission from commercial partners

what they currently share
F&B
car parking
They could hire parts or all of the venue to put on own events

If they built such a complex on leisure land say long lease or even freehold
they could get 365 day income from
from
Bars
Restaurants
events
conferences
meetings
weddings
and site the shop there

What they don't get
stadium naming rights
non pitchside advertising
exhibition or major events (but then again most teams in the FL do not get this either)

Doesn't look such an uneven playing field in terms of income if the above is right. Pretty much like most teams in reality. Would it cost more than building the stadium?

KG7 · Apr 2, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
So looking at the incomes they get now that every FL team gets

Match tickets
Match packages
Hospitality packages
Pitch side advertising
Sponsorship - shirt, kit, player, corners etc
Prog sales
TV money
FL prize money
solidarity payments
shop sales
lottery?
commission from commercial partners

what they currently share
F&B
car parking
They could hire parts or all of the venue to put on own events

If they built such a complex on leisure land say long lease or even freehold
they could get 365 day income from
from
Bars
Restaurants
events
conferences
meetings
weddings
and site the shop there

What they don't get
stadium naming rights
non pitchside advertising
exhibition or major events (but then again most teams in the FL do not get this either)

Doesn't look such an uneven playing field in terms of income if the above is right. Pretty much like most teams in reality. Would it cost more than building the stadium?

If I were Joy I'd definitely be looking at this. (Surely they could even sell the naming rights to a small arena?!?)

I didnt realise that the land near the ground would be available. That makes it even more viable and would be better for the club if in the future, if the day comes when we are re-united with The Ricoh.

italiahorse · Apr 2, 2015

RFC said:
The deal would not be sustainable in the Championship or above!

Gross revenue of ALL income streams from wholly owned stadium 364 days a year the only answer long term, FIFA FP rules.

No, its a good point.
The stadium bowl could not be used 365 days a year so the income needs to come from say Hotels, Exhibition and conference facilities.
There is no reason why these need to be at the stadium bowl (although I would argue the shop needs to be)

So take over the abandoned club and build a hotel big enough to have conference facilities. In fact the hotel could be anywhere.
Move the club shop to Tesco's and take over the old phones4U shop. Will get 365 'easy' access unlike the old Ricoh shop.
Hire the unused parking facilities at factories only working standard 37 hours 'say' Bermuda and use them as park and ride.
Set up your own entertainments company and hire the Ricoh bowl, or halls to put on concerts etc.
I'm sure I would prefer this to trying to sell rooms in a hotel, merchandise in a shop or exhibitions say at Ansty Park.

Grendel · Apr 2, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
Do they own the lease on the Leisure land? or is it still a freehold plot with CCC?

I thought everyone agreed that Wasps want CCFC at the Ricoh. Why wont they do business if CCFC is prepared to commit to being there?

There might be a rent adjustment certainly but if its a long term deal then it can be fixed

Just alternative and less costly ideas that get CCFC income streams 365 days a year

The rent adjustment is the key though isn't it?

To gain commitment long term what would that be?

The reality for the club is it is in no bargaining position and every year the club stay and the short term deal gets shorter the more desperate they will become. It is perfectly believable that wasps would prefer to wait and view the situation in two or three years. They could of course look also to secure other partners who may offer a better deal than the football club to them.

the rumpo kid · Apr 2, 2015

the problem is, if sisu build anything, stadium, complex, pubs, leisure facility, or a play ground that makes money, they will keep it ALL, and fuck the club.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2015

Only thing I didn't factor in that other clubs may get is alternative uses for the pitch area. But most clubs that area is not used that much. Also depending on the rent agreement then there may well not be the 365 day costs of that area also

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2015

Grendel said:
The rent adjustment is the key though isn't it?

To gain commitment long term what would that be?

The reality for the club is it is in no bargaining position and every year the club stay and the short term deal gets shorter the more desperate they will become. It is perfectly believable that wasps would prefer to wait and view the situation in two or three years. They could of course look also to secure other partners who may offer a better deal than the football club to them.

They could yes but equally that might not be anything like the case - we don't know and unless someone asks from CCFC/SISU and means it we wont. Think the point of this is there are alternatives but the focus only is that we must have a new stadium

italiahorse · Apr 2, 2015

Grendel said:
The rent adjustment is the key though isn't it?

To gain commitment long term what would that be?

The reality for the club is it is in no bargaining position and every year the club stay and the short term deal gets shorter the more desperate they will become. It is perfectly believable that wasps would prefer to wait and view the situation in two or three years. They could of course look also to secure other partners who may offer a better deal than the football club to them.

If I was Wasps with their nest being rattled by being named in a legal battle for the Ricoh, I'd be tempted to sting us for all they can get. (Did you see what I did there?)
However, if they are professional they will just keep taking a reasonable rent.

If they are really professional they will seek mutual benefits from having us there.
Can't calculate whether it's enough for us but lets just start winning and see where it takes us.

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2015

Grendel said:
The rent adjustment is the key though isn't it?

To gain commitment long term what would that be?

.

yes the amount is key

given Wasps have 250 years then they could offer anything from day lease to over 100 years in theory couldn't they?

again there are all sorts of options

Paxman II · Apr 2, 2015

The arena has conference facilities so planning for more in direct competition seems a stretch to me? better still if there is good income streams to hold events in the name of CCFC then hire those facilities at a fixed agreed amount from ACL and use those?

The Arena also has bar facilities so again planning for a pub or pubs would receive a somewhat negative response I feel and again in direct competition with your landlord?

Far better they do what I've always said: Find a way to buy in to the stadium with WASP because they will not sustain their presence by themselves long term and certainly less so with the football club gone. There has to be a deal to share the 250 year ownership and all income streams at the Ricoh.
This folly of building a new stadium of far less initial capacity and likely only bordering on the City boundaries has to stop.

Football can change very quickly with a little success on the pitch. we could suddenly be in Bournemouth's position in 18 months and how would all this seem then? On the brink of premier league and crowds of 30k+ and no stadium big enough? Even if we were atop the championship you bet 25k+ would be fighting for a seat!
Realistically we must stay at the 'soul-less' Ricoh under a part ownership deal of that 250 yr lease. Then both sides could contemplate further enhancements to benefit all as described above.

Otis · Apr 2, 2015

oldskyblue58 said:
They could yes but equally that might not be anything like the case - we don't know and unless someone asks from CCFC/SISU and means it we wont. Think the point of this is there are alternatives but the focus only is that we must have a new stadium

Exactly OSB.

There are alternatives and if we believe a new stadium won't be built, we have to stay at the Rioch and if we have to stay we have to find ways of making it work for us.

stupot07 · Apr 2, 2015

I like the out of the box thinking, but in reality I don't think it could work.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

bigfatronssba · Apr 2, 2015

stupot07 said:
I like the out of the box thinking, but in reality I don't think it could work.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

It has a better chance of working than the alternative. I.e building a football stadium so you can host a wedding fair.

Its never been explained how the new stadium debt would be paid off.

Grendel · Apr 2, 2015

bigfatronssba said:
It has a better chance of working than the alternative. I.e building a football stadium so you can host a wedding fair.

Its never been explained how the new stadium debt would be paid off.

Strange.

In the days when ACl didn't need the club I thought weddings were worth more than the revenue generated by the club on match days.

stupot07 · Apr 2, 2015

bigfatronssba said:
It has a better chance of working than the alternative. I.e building a football stadium so you can host a wedding fair.

Its never been explained how the new stadium debt would be paid off.

No it hasn't, so we can neither support the idea nor dismiss it fully.

Personally, I can't see a long term future at the Ricoh now, whoever our owners. At some point Wasps will change the seats, and the rebranding will be complete.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

oldskyblue58 · Apr 2, 2015

Paxman II said:
The arena has conference facilities so planning for more in direct competition seems a stretch to me? better still if there is good income streams to hold events in the name of CCFC then hire those facilities at a fixed agreed amount from ACL and use those? there are or could be different markets so it isn't unheard of to have two venues close by

The Arena also has bar facilities so again planning for a pub or pubs would receive a somewhat negative response I feel and again in direct competition with your landlord?again the area does need more bars, the old social club for instance has planning permission for Wetherspoons I believe. Competition might be healthy for both and with the train station create a stop off point

Far better they do what I've always said: Find a way to buy in to the stadium with WASP because they will not sustain their presence by themselves long term and certainly less so with the football club gone. There has to be a deal to share the 250 year ownership and all income streams at the Ricoh.
This folly of building a new stadium of far less initial capacity and likely only bordering on the City boundaries has to stop.

Football can change very quickly with a little success on the pitch. we could suddenly be in Bournemouth's position in 18 months and how would all this seem then? On the brink of premier league and crowds of 30k+ and no stadium big enough? Even if we were atop the championship you bet 25k+ would be fighting for a seat!
Realistically we must stay at the 'soul-less' Ricoh under a part ownership deal of that 250 yr lease. Then both sides could contemplate further enhancements to benefit all as described above.

I agree with some of that .......... and what it is are further options that do not involve building a small stadium. There are alternatives

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