Always someone worse off (1 Viewer)

better days · Feb 7, 2018

Dagenham & Redbridge are in trouble after their main backer stopped financing the club
They have told the players they can go if they can find a club
Two have left today, one to Borehamwood and the other to Leyton Orient
I wonder if we have spoken to them about Corey Whitley?

Suffolk sky blues · Feb 7, 2018

What a mess.

Londonccfcfan · Feb 7, 2018

Hartelpool is another club in right old mess I heard!

Londonccfcfan · Feb 7, 2018

Court date fixed as HMRC issue winding up order petition for Hartlepool United

League club also just last year!

Nick · Feb 7, 2018

Another example of expecting somebody to personally fund a club, perfect while they want to but goes to shit when they want to stop it or walk away. The same as Leyton Orient.

He seems to be blaming the fans for walking away as well.

It is worded like he wants his money back as well

Whilst £1.3 million was raised by the initial allocation of shares this has not been sufficient to cover the losses incurred last season and so far this season and whilst Glyn Hopkin has funded this overspend this funding ceased on the 31st December 2017.

I_Saw_Shaw_Score · Feb 7, 2018

Was down there a couple of weeks ago, few of the players must have been on their way to training got off the tube at Dagenham East where I was getting off which is around the corner from the ground, bought back the memories of Kilbanes late penalty winner in the league cup thriller a few years back.....

Hobo · Feb 7, 2018

Most clubs are in a mess. Time to run within your revenue and fans to lower expectation and accept the budget. Progress has to be realistic. But at the same time the owners need to make the fans feel involved and part of the process. Fans aren't stupid if they are aware of the actual finances they will understand the battle....and see the team's efforts in a different light.

Nick · Feb 7, 2018

Hobo said:
Most clubs are in a mess. Time to run within your revenue and fans to lower expectation and accept the budget. Progress has to be realistic. But at the same time the owners need to make the fans feel involved and part of the process. Fans aren't stupid if they are aware of the actual finances they will understand the battle....and see the team's efforts in a different light.

I wouldn't count on that.

Not many will lower expectation or really understand that owners won't pump money in and not expect it back and walk away.

fernandopartridge · Feb 7, 2018

Hobo said:
Most clubs are in a mess. Time to run within your revenue and fans to lower expectation and accept the budget. Progress has to be realistic. But at the same time the owners need to make the fans feel involved and part of the process. Fans aren't stupid if they are aware of the actual finances they will understand the battle....and see the team's efforts in a different light.

The problem is that the PL has completely distorted everything. There is a trickle down demand for wages and transfer fees but no trickle down of that huge subsidy that clubs get from the TV deal.

FFP is a load of bollocks, means something completely different to clubs in the lower leagues than it does to those in the PL

Nick · Feb 7, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
The problem is that the PL has completely distorted everything. There is a trickle down demand for wages and transfer fees but no trickle down of that huge subsidy that clubs get from the TV deal.

FFP is a load of bollocks, means something completely different to clubs in the lower leagues than it does to those in the PL

Exactly, so wages go up, tickets go up, people want loads of money thrown in to be able to compete etc.

christonabike · Feb 7, 2018

Some people pay to be entertained and if it’s shit they won’t go. Some fans go what ever but all football clubs started off as entertainment as there was fook all else to do.
Now days there are a 100 things to do on a Saturday and a price needs to reflect what is served up for many and £20 plus for league 4 is too much. On the same hand no one is going to spend money hand over fist continually to support a club it’s catch 22.
I do feel for those clubs in the shit and if we don’t do a deal at the Ricoh it may well be us!

shmmeee · Feb 7, 2018

Nick said:
Another example of expecting somebody to personally fund a club, perfect while they want to but goes to shit when they want to stop it or walk away. The same as Leyton Orient.

He seems to be blaming the fans for walking away as well.

It is worded like he wants his money back as well

The question is Nick: what’s the alternative? While the game is how it is can you run a successful team on a balanced budget? We are OK because we are still seen as big for our level and pull in decent crowds compared to those around us, that might even be true in L1. But once you get to the Champ, where we aren’t one of the better supported teams, would we stay up on a balanced budget?

The game needs to change, but while you’ve got a critical mass of rich idiots willing to throw cash, how are you going to instigate that change? Which leaves clubs like us with the stark choice of slowly drop or find a big spender (and as you say, most likely go pop eventually anyway).

better days · Feb 7, 2018

Nick said:
Another example of expecting somebody to personally fund a club, perfect while they want to but goes to shit when they want to stop it or walk away. The same as Leyton Orient.

He seems to be blaming the fans for walking away as well.

It is worded like he wants his money back as well

It's a bit complicated Nick
The guy owns a large car dealership in East London with customers from every community
Some Daggers fans are unhappy with the club's MD who is a bit of a martinet
They started taking a North Korean flag to away games which was initially seen as funny but this has escalated to more provocative flags including the Confederate ensign and another saying something like 'Trumps Daggers'

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Feb 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
The question is Nick: what’s the alternative? While the game is how it is can you run a successful team on a balanced budget? We are OK because we are still seen as big for our level and pull in decent crowds compared to those around us, that might even be true in L1. But once you get to the Champ, where we aren’t one of the better supported teams, would we stay up on a balanced budget?

The game needs to change, but while you’ve got a critical mass of rich idiots willing to throw cash, how are you going to instigate that change? Which leaves clubs like us with the stark choice of slowly drop or find a big spender (and as you say, most likely go pop eventually anyway).

And this is why we need our own stadium and our fans to come week in week out... you need every penny you can get. Use that money to invest in infrastructure, build The club.

If you have one rich nutter, you always risk the chance of going pop. It’s a hard way of working but it’s the best way. With he right people in charge (owner, manager etc) you can compete

You’re right about the championship, but that’s workable. The premier league on the other hand is another kettle of fish

Liquid Gold · Feb 7, 2018

The most annoying this is that if the bubble ever did burst you know full well that the big teams wouldn't be forced to reform and go bust, there would be endless help on the line to keep them going.

Hobo · Feb 7, 2018

Nick said:
Exactly, so wages go up, tickets go up, people want loads of money thrown in to be able to compete etc.

I still believe with transparency from the owners this can be overcome, if they are part of the finances they understand. If the owners say we will give you this finance each year they will understand. If they think the owner is holding back they expect more. The owners need to be clear this is your budget. Also the infrastructure or business plan needs to be beyond one manager...i.e. if you join our club as manger this is your framework and philosophy. Buy into it or don't take the job.

Londonccfcfan · Feb 7, 2018

There is simplistic (wont say solution) as clubs will always overspend, a bigger slice of the pie from the top needs to be filtered down to the leagues in a fairer way.
Its obscene the money at the top end Premeir League!

Liquid Gold · Feb 7, 2018

The sooner they go to their mad European super league the better. They can then leave proper football to the rest of us.

chiefdave · Feb 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
The question is Nick: what’s the alternative? While the game is how it is can you run a successful team on a balanced budget?

You can't solve it while the game is as it is currently. The obvious solution is to put a serious effort into making all clubs self sufficient.

speedie87 · Feb 7, 2018

Wonder if dag & red would have been saved if Jodi jones hadn’t got injured and we sold him assuming they have sell on

ceetee · Feb 7, 2018

shmmeee said:
The question is Nick: what’s the alternative? While the game is how it is can you run a successful team on a balanced budget? We are OK because we are still seen as big for our level and pull in decent crowds compared to those around us, that might even be true in L1. But once you get to the Champ, where we aren’t one of the better supported teams, would we stay up on a balanced budget?

The game needs to change, but while you’ve got a critical mass of rich idiots willing to throw cash, how are you going to instigate that change? Which leaves clubs like us with the stark choice of slowly drop or find a big spender (and as you say, most likely go pop eventually anyway).

Didn't Fisher say that the balanced budget approach would not work in the Championship and above?
It's one rule for the rich and another for the rest

Nick · Feb 8, 2018

It's the same as Billericay, I was reading that he tried to take over Dagenham just before but then went to Billericay.

If he decided one day he didn't want to fund it or went bankrupt how the hell are they going to keep paying players like Jermaine Pennant, Jamie O'Hara and Kevin Foley etc. I saw somewhere their wage bill was about £30k a week for a team not much different to Bedworth United. He stops the money being pumped in and they go pop.

Teams like Man City will cope more if they money tap got turned off as they have silly TV money coming in and the benefits of the Premier League, in the lower leagues it isn't like that. See Leyton Orient too.

SBAndy · Feb 8, 2018

The only feasible solution is for owners to sign as guarantors against players’ contracts. It stops the risk being placed on the club for taking such gambles, as if the owner signs off on it he would become liable in the event the club couldn’t pay.

Which of course would mean we would never sign another player ever again :woot:

SBAndy · Feb 8, 2018

And that’s without addressing the fact that this Tamplin bloke is a world class weirdo. Had never heard of him but came across his twitter profile last week, the guy is as odd as they come.

Terry Gibson's perm · Feb 8, 2018

Teams will go to the wall we have too many teams paying out far too much money, agents taking too much out at all levels, chief executives taking disproportionate salaries the only way they can survive is regionalise football below the football league.

When my nephew moved from Fleetwood to Southport he went from full to part time but ended up earning more doesn’t make sense to me he must have a good agent

better days · Feb 8, 2018

SBAndy said:
And that’s without addressing the fact that this Tamplin bloke is a world class weirdo. Had never heard of him but came across his twitter profile last week, the guy is as odd as they come.

The other thing about him is it's unclear where his money comes from
He's portrayed as a 'millionaire steel magnet' but when you look up his companies they are either bankrupt or so small they don't have to file full accounts at Companies House
He does have some very scary friends though..................

skybluetony176 · Feb 8, 2018

Wasn’t we supposedly in the hunt for a Dagenham and Redbridge player during the window and made a bid that was rejected? Seems odd that they rejected a bid in the window if true only to tell players that they’re free to leave now if they can find a club. Does this mean that the player we’ve apparently bid for is now available on a free and we can sign him outside of the window?

better days · Feb 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Wasn’t we supposedly in the hunt for a Dagenham and Redbridge player during the window and made a bid that was rejected? Seems odd that they rejected a bid in the window if true only to tell players that they’re free to leave now if they can find a club. Does this mean that the player we’ve apparently bid for is now available on a free and we can sign him outside of the window?

No - the two who left yesterday were sold for 'undisclosed' fees
They were two of their best players though
The guy we went after was Corey Whitely who would also command a fee
Fringe players might be allowed to leave for free

jordan210 · Feb 8, 2018

better days said:
No - the two who left yesterday were sold for 'undisclosed' fees
They were two of their best players though
The guy we went after was Corey Whitely who would also command a fee
Fringe players might be allowed to leave for free

How can players be sold out side the transfer window or is it different with non league teams.

Would be worth putting the offer for Corey Whitely back on the table.

skybluetony176 · Feb 8, 2018

better days said:
No - the two who left yesterday were sold for 'undisclosed' fees
They were two of their best players though
The guy we went after was Corey Whitely who would also command a fee
Fringe players might be allowed to leave for free

Gotcha

So basically unless they cancel his contract by mutual consent making him a free agent we can’t sign him outside the window? Assuming that the two guys who went remained non league and can move outside the window?

better days · Feb 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Gotcha

So basically unless they cancel his contract by mutual consent making him a free agent we can’t sign him outside the window? Assuming that the two guys who went remained non league and can move outside the window?

We can sign players from Daggers I believe as they are non League
It seems more players are expected to leave today
I don't know who they are though or where they're going

robbiekeane · Feb 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Wasn’t we

What?

Manchester_sky_blue · Feb 8, 2018

The only way i see some semblance of balance being reintroduced to the game is for drastic changes in the TV deal. Its that money that distorts everything and causes this enormous gulf between the premier league and the rest of us. You would need government legislation to do that though and you won't find many politicians who are happy to upset Rupert Murdoch.

Nick · Feb 8, 2018

Manchester_sky_blue said:
The only way i see some semblance of balance being reintroduced to the game is for drastic changes in the TV deal. Its that money that distorts everything and causes this enormous gulf between the premier league and the rest of us. You would need government legislation to do that though and you won't find many politicians who are happy to upset Rupert Murdoch.

That's the thing, it needs to start from the top and filter down. Just the same as so much of the bad things do, in the premier league the bad things like ticket prices can be altered because ticket money is secondary to TV money, sponsorship etc.

Hartlepool struggle and could go out of business over £200k, so many players get paid twice that in a week nowadays. Individual players will be turning over more in a year than most League 1 and 2 clubs.

Players want higher wages, people bid higher for TV rights in the premier league and sponsorship deals. Players want higher wages in League 2 then ticket prices have to cover it.

Nick · Feb 8, 2018

This is interesting

Shows how heavily teams in the Premier League rely on TV money aside from the big boys.

Always someone worse off (1 Viewer)

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