An Objective View (1 Viewer)

ccfcway · Dec 3, 2011

So, the "its AT fault" v "the players arent good enough" debate rages on...

Well, just thought I would look at the squad, and see what would happen to the players and where they would end up, in the VERY unlikely event of liquidation, just to see the quality of the squad..

I am not going to take into account "potential", I will be judging them on how they play NOW...

Prem

Juke, Craine

Championship

J Murphy, Hussey, Clingan, Wood, Clarke, Cameron, Christie, Thomas, Bigi, Keogh

League One

C Dunn, McPake, Bell, Baker, McSheffrey, Deegan, McDonald, Platt,

League Two

Eastwood, O'Donovan, Ireland

Well, looking at that, we should be able to at least be in with a fighting chance of staying up.

THORN has to go

rob9872 · Dec 3, 2011

& Gardner - Prem

ccfcway · Dec 3, 2011

good point, further supporting the claim that perhaps a different manager would get more out of these players...

I wish to point out I am absoultly sick to death of sacking managers every seaosn, but the fact reamining that none of them ever go on to better things, thus justifying the sackings, AT will join them

rob9872 · Dec 3, 2011

Whether he is or isn't performing, nobody could have us currently in a worse league position so if that's the only possible thing we can change then we should. It will probably fail but we have to try.

wilbertorama · Dec 3, 2011

Deegan hasnt been given a proper go at it yet

stupot07 · Dec 3, 2011

ccfcway said:
So, the "its AT fault" v "the players arent good enough" debate rages on...

Well, just thought I would look at the squad, and see what would happen to the players and where they would end up, in the VERY unlikely event of liquidation, just to see the quality of the squad..

I am not going to take into account "potential", I will be judging them on how they play NOW...

Prem

Juke, Craine

Championship

J Murphy, Hussey, Clingan, Wood, Clarke, Cameron, Christie, Thomas, Bigi, Keogh

League One

C Dunn, McPake, Bell, Baker, McSheffrey, Deegan, McDonald, Platt,

League Two

Eastwood, O'Donovan, Ireland

Well, looking at that, we should be able to at least be in with a fighting chance of staying up.

THORN has to go

The thing with this analysis is that the only attacking player you have rated as championship quality or better is juke. The rest are defenders, defensive/deeper midfield players, and a keeper.

Games are won and lost in fine margins, and the lack of goal threat is what is killing us.

Nonleagueherewecome · Dec 3, 2011

ccfcway said:
So, the "its AT fault" v "the players arent good enough" debate rages on...

Well, just thought I would look at the squad, and see what would happen to the players and where they would end up, in the VERY unlikely event of liquidation, just to see the quality of the squad..

I am not going to take into account "potential", I will be judging them on how they play NOW...

Prem

Juke, Craine

Championship

J Murphy, Hussey, Clingan, Wood, Clarke, Cameron, Christie, Thomas, Bigi, Keogh

League One

C Dunn, McPake, Bell, Baker, McSheffrey, Deegan, McDonald, Platt,

League Two

Eastwood, O'Donovan, Ireland

Well, looking at that, we should be able to at least be in with a fighting chance of staying up.

THORN has to go

I really think you can move Murphy, Wood, and Cameron to L1. Others may say the same about Clarke, whilst Christie is more like BSP defensively.

rob9872 · Dec 3, 2011

To be fair of the champ ones
Murphy, Clingan and Wood's teams got relegated in their last year, Hussey has come from the non league, Keogh from League one and the remainder are products of the youth system who we probably view with better prospects than those outside the club.

I realise some of thos thta's unkind too, but I think we are somewhat biased and many of those would probably end up initially at least in League one.

stupot07 · Dec 3, 2011

Also cranie won't go to the prem, unless he's in a team that gets promoted.

TalkSkyBlue · Dec 3, 2011

Just listened to ATs after game comments..... he's down, but the thing I don't understand from his public comments is that he's now openly talking about the need to bring new faces in.... I read this as his last throw of the last dice. Why is he asking for players when the loan window has closed? A demonstration of ATs frustration is finally surfacing.

rob9872 · Dec 3, 2011

He has probably been told to ask now - it buys time as we all know that he cant sign anyone. If he wanted to call their bluff then do it whilst the window was open and before its too late to save. Things havent suddenly changed in the past week so its another demonstration of wak character and being a SISU puppet.

Nonleagueherewecome · Dec 3, 2011

rob9872 said:
He has probably been told to ask now - it buys time as we all know that he cant sign anyone. If he wanted to call their bluff then do it whilst the window was open and before its too late to save. Things havent suddenly changed in the past week so its another demonstration of wak character and being a SISU puppet.

What the...he pleads with the board to back him with better players, and you take that as him being a yes-man? OK.....

rob9872 · Dec 3, 2011

Nonleagueherewecome said:
What the...he pleads with the board to back him with better players, and you take that as him being a yes-man? OK.....

After the window has shut!

Its like asking to win the lotery on Sunday morning

wilbertorama · Dec 3, 2011

never a truer word said rob

wilbertorama · Dec 3, 2011

i agree with rob,AT is fooling all the fans with this nice guy act.he is out of his dept and naive.he is more interested in going to the pub and the bookies than he is in managing a professional football team.

Nonleagueherewecome · Dec 3, 2011

Also, Ken is actually an alien and SISU are sending all their secret profits to Mars. It's true people! Watch the skies!!!

kg82 · Dec 3, 2011

I wouldn't say any of them would go into the prem. Not now anyway. And Murphy, Clarke and Cameron would go League 1 or lower.

dadgad · Dec 3, 2011

ccfcway said:
So, the "its AT fault" v "the players arent good enough" debate rages on...

Well, just thought I would look at the squad, and see what would happen to the players and where they would end up, in the VERY unlikely event of liquidation, just to see the quality of the squad..

I am not going to take into account "potential", I will be judging them on how they play NOW...

Prem

Juke, Craine

Championship

J Murphy, Hussey, Clingan, Wood, Clarke, Cameron, Christie, Thomas, Bigi, Keogh

League One

C Dunn, McPake, Bell, Baker, McSheffrey, Deegan, McDonald, Platt,

League Two

Eastwood, O'Donovan, Ireland

That is a ridiculously optimistically view of the current value of our squad.
Look at the table, that is the only true reflection of how good our players are.
Our best players last year were King, Westwood, Turner and Gunnarson.
They have NOT been replaced.
But let's blame Thorn ointlaugh:- what a muppet.

ccfcway · Dec 3, 2011

dadgad said:
That is a ridiculously optimistically view of the current value of our squad.
Look at the table, that is the only true reflection of how good our players are.
Our best players last year were King, Westwood, Turner and Gunnarson.
They have NOT been replaced.
But let's blame Thorn ointlaugh:- what a muppet.

So, to confirm, the table is the only true reflection of how good our players are.

I assume then that if we did the same "analysis " of the Swansea and Norwich squads, they would all be snapped up by Prem teams

Dont talk so daft !

Happy to see your reflection of our current squad

dadgad · Dec 3, 2011

ccfcway said:
So, to confirm, the table is the only true reflection of how good our players are.
/QUOTE]

YES, of course, it is the only reflection that matters AND it is "OBJECTIVE" something your ridiculous post isn't.
Twice a muppet.:wave:

ccfcway · Dec 3, 2011

lovely,

so, you going to answer the question ?

If Swansea or Norwich went into liquidation, would all of their squad go to Prem teams ?

If not, then its not JUST the table that reflects how good the players are !

Nonleagueherewecome · Dec 3, 2011

Whilst the table isn't a literal translation of where a club should be, the saying goes that by the end of the season "the table doesn't lie". I think we most thought we were in big trouble before a ball was kicked, a point illustrated by a neutral and relatively objective thing in the bookies pre-season odds!

dadgad · Dec 3, 2011

Nonleagueherewecome said:
Whilst the table isn't a literal translation of where a club should be, the saying goes that by the end of the season "the table doesn't lie". I think we most thought we were in big trouble before a ball was kicked, a point illustrated by a neutral and relatively objective thing in the bookies pre-season odds!

Yes, that is another "objective" appraisal.

One of the main problems with this delusional valuation it is subjective. Something he
probably hasn't got the where with all to grasp. Three times a muppet.:jerkit:

TheOldFive · Dec 3, 2011

dadgad said:
That is a ridiculously optimistically view of the current value of our squad.
Look at the table, that is the only true reflection of how good our players are.
Our best players last year were King, Westwood, Turner and Gunnarson.
They have NOT been replaced.
But let's blame Thorn ointlaugh:- what a muppet.

Agreed. And of those best players only Westwood makes the Prem.

ccfcway · Dec 3, 2011

dadgad said:
Yes, that is another "objective" appraisal.

One of the main problems with this delusional valuation it is subjective. Something he
probably hasn't got the where with all to grasp. Three times a muppet.:jerkit:

WUM,

This place is getting more and more like GMK every day...

AFCCOVENTRY · Dec 3, 2011

None of our players are Championship quality apart from Juke.

League table doesn't lie.

When we kick off next season in league one we have to get rid of most of the current players.

The rot is so deep that we would just fall through to L2.

Juke, Clinigan and Cranie will be sold in the Jan window.

I would only keep the following for out L1 campaign next year:

Dunn
Christie
Cameron
Hussey
Bigi
Thomas
Platt
Cody

ccfcway · Dec 3, 2011

AFC, really ?

You dont think ----Keogh, Craine, Clingan, Thomas, Bigi, Clarke, Christie are Championship quality ?

Any idea why Leeds are after Clingan, Stoke and Newcastle are after Christie, Liverpool wanted Thomas, clubs sniffing around Bigi, Craine interesting Cardiff..

Not bad for League One players ?

Jack Griffin · Dec 3, 2011

ccfcway has not presented an objective view, I may agree with a good part of it though I think he really overrates a few players.
It is his own opinion, it is subjective and not testable to any degree in any case until next season, when we wil see if his Champ/Prem rated players get contracts with clubs at those levels.

His ratiings are not.....
a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices.
b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually.

ccfcway · Dec 3, 2011

cheers Jack,

care to do it yourself then instead of just cristising mine, lets see it ?

Whats your thoughts ?

dadgad · Dec 3, 2011

ccfcway. You're an idiot. Worse you're part of the problem that blights this club. Bigging up our players is absurd in the current situation.
Only by telling like it is can we begin to extricate ourselves from the problem, Sisu.
Blaming Thorn is ridiculous.

stupot07 · Dec 3, 2011

ccfcway said:
AFC, really ?

You dont think ----Keogh, Craine, Clingan, Thomas, Bigi, Clarke, Christie are Championship quality ?

Any idea why Leeds are after Clingan, Stoke and Newcastle are after Christie, Liverpool wanted Thomas, clubs sniffing around Bigi, Craine interesting Cardiff..

Not bad for League One players ?

I think Keogh, Cranie and Clingan are championship players but thomas, bigi, clarke and christie are not at present. They are doing their best and have huge potential hence why clubs have been sniffing around, but the fact remains that they would not be starting week in week out if it weren't for our poor and small squad. I'm not saying they are league one players however you could argue that Oxlade-Chamberlain was signed from playing league one football and so was Jonjo Shelvey so it isn't necessarily a put down to say that they are not fully fledged championship players.

ccfcway · Dec 3, 2011

"you're part of the problem that blights this club"

ah, its my fault, didnt realise that, pretty sure Richardson, SISU, Ranson et al will breathe a sigh of relief when they find out you've broken this !

Thanks WUM

la-ccfc · Dec 3, 2011

I have been on here for a couple of months but have been to lazy to post until now, but well since our club is falling apart i thought i might as well start.

This debate over who is to blame the players or Thorn, has anyone actually thought that it is a combination of both. A better manager than Thorn would probably have done a better job but I don't think it would be so much better that we wouldn't still be in the relegation zone, where as if Thorn had better players at his disposal we would be higher up the table.

My opinion on our players

Prem
Juke
champ
Keogh
Clingan
Cranie
Wood
L1
Murphy
Hussey
Mcpake
Bell
Baker
Mcsheffrey
Deegan
Dunn
Platt
Clarke
Christie
Thomas
Bigi
L2
Mcdonald
Eastwood
O'Donovan
Jeffers
Wilson

I have put Clarke, Christie, Thomas, and Bigi as league 1 based on how good they are now not how good they could be, Mcdonald is league 2 because he hasn't really had any significant playing time at a higher level to show how good he is. I'm not including Gardner because he has only been here 5 minutes and I haven't seen him play.

hackneyfox · Dec 3, 2011

ccfcway said:
AFC, really ?

You dont think ----Keogh, Craine, Clingan, Thomas, Bigi, Clarke, Christie are Championship quality ?

Any idea why Leeds are after Clingan, Stoke and Newcastle are after Christie, Liverpool wanted Thomas, clubs sniffing around Bigi, Craine interesting Cardiff..

Not bad for League One players ?

Is that based on football rumours?
4 of our players were wanted by premiership squads the season we got relegated, strangely when we went down none of them joined premiership clubs.
We signed Bamba for 250k from Scotland but didn't sell him for 2 million a few months later to Marseille, allegedly.

cloughie · Dec 3, 2011

Sorry to say but none of our players are prem quality and only a handful are championship quality. That is not inclubing the youth players of Thomas biggi Christie cammeron clarke etc who's potential is unknown

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