And The Cracks are Beggining to Show (9 Viewers)

mechaishida · Dec 21, 2015

Otis said:
No-one has said his tactics are beyond criticism.

I am just saying the degree of criticism where seemingly everything is wrong (Shouldn't play Cole, should have played Murphy, should have brought an experienced keeper in, shouldn't have dropped Lameiras, being outwitted by the opposition, shouldn't be playing Fortune, should be playing Tudgay etc. etc.) is incorrect and wildly over the top.

No problem with criticism at all, but at the first sign of failure, it almost feels like everything is wrong to some people, when it clearly isn't.

Freak result last week, in a game we should have won and we were seconds from 3 points yesterday too.

No problem with criticism, I just think we need some perspective.

I don't see how all these things can be wrong, yet we can lose just one game in thirteen!!

Aye, well, we need something to whinge about, mate. Either that, or we're annoying other members for fun. :laugh:

I guess the basis for my need to state and address the obvious issues, is so that maybe it will also occur to TM and his staff so they can eradicate the shortcomings.

I understand we were unlucky on Saturday, but we should have scored two or three against a side with no confidence. I know we were beyond unlucky against Sheff Utd, but we should have fought fire with fire and bullied them back.

Being so accustomed to mediocrity from our last 14 seasons, I guess this season promises so very much that we all just want it to go right for a change.

But yes, you're right, 1 defeat in 13 is still very good going.

Warwickhunt · Dec 21, 2015

Otis said:
No-one has said his tactics are beyond criticism.

I am just saying the degree of criticism where seemingly everything is wrong (Shouldn't play Cole, should have played Murphy, should have brought an experienced keeper in, shouldn't have dropped Lameiras, being outwitted by the opposition, shouldn't be playing Fortune, should be playing Tudgay etc. etc.) is incorrect and wildly over the top.

No problem with criticism at all, but at the first sign of failure, it almost feels like everything is wrong to some people, when it clearly isn't.

Freak result last week, in a game we should have won and we were seconds from 3 points yesterday too.

No problem with criticism, I just think we need some perspective.

I don't see how all these things can be wrong, yet we can lose just one game in thirteen!!

at no point on saturday did i feel we were going to lose! where in the last 5 seasons i have been on edge until the final whistle went. so to put this into perspective i think i trust TM and i think the team are good enough for the top two places. Walsal & Burton have not hit a player crisis yet all be it a change of manager has taken place. Those new guys will not be able to resist tinkering and their results will start to change eventually. we have come through a lot of player problems and still only been beaten once in thirteen games

mechaishida · Dec 21, 2015

Huckerby said:
The issues are obvious? So if we ignore the suckered punches in the last two games, what are the obvious issues?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

The issues I've stated, mate. Lack of ruthlessness, cutting edge, dodgy tactical decisions and selections. Nothing spectacular, but it just strikes me as strange.

Besides, you highlighted the Lameiras issue yourself - he's simply not deployed enough, or he's not deployed correctly.

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

mechaishida said:
The issues I've stated, mate. Lack of ruthlessness, cutting edge, dodgy tactical decisions and selections. Nothing spectacular, but it just strikes me as strange.

Besides, you highlighted the Lameiras issue yourself - he's simply not deployed enough, or he's not deployed correctly.

As I've already said, I think the Cole/Armstrong thing didn't work at all well. They were on different wavelengths.

Maddison back in the side and/or Lameiras and that will be sorted.

Our hand was forced in Saturday and we do have to bear that in mind.

Ricketts has been the calming influence in the back four. He was missing.

Fleck has played the pivotal role of DM, stroking the ball about and commanding the midfield. He was missing.

Turner's made a massive difference to the back line and he looked really commanding again on Saturday. He went off injured.

I don't think we can underestimate how much we missed those 3 players, especially Ricketts and Turner.

Oldham had plenty of possession on Saturday but hardly looked like scoring at all and it took a foul/error to nab them a point.

Lorentzson hopefully will be fit soon, so we can send Phillips back to the bench. Think another key factor on Saturday was our having to play Phillips and Haynes, neither of which seem good enough for the top of League One football.

If we can bring in a good replacement for Turner then things should be looking up again. I thought Maddison looked sharp when he came on, so his trickery and ingenuity should make a big difference too.

I wouldn't be surprised to see both Lameiras and Maddison in next weekend.

Grendel · Dec 21, 2015

Otis said:
Yep, the bad run is 1 defeat in 13 games.

Wish we'd had a lot of bad runs these past few years.

You keep talking about a freak result against Sheffield based on what? The goal that never was. That would have been an own goal and was pretty much the only real chance we created in the game apart from one with Armstrong.

In 180 minutes, against a couple of teams who've offered zero threat, we've created hardly any openings. Did the Oldham keeper have any saves to make in the game?

You don't need a midfield player virtually deployed as a sweeper against Oldham. It seemed we had two players in cole and Bigiamara who were always going to get selected on Saturday and the team formation had to accommodate them. That's not encouraging.

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

Grendel said:
You keep talking about a freak result against Sheffield based on what? The goal that never was. That would have been an own goal and was pretty much the only real chance we created in the game apart from one with Armstrong.

In 180 minutes, against a couple of teams who've offered zero threat, we've created hardly any openings. Did the Oldham keeper have any saves to make in the game?

You don't need a midfield player virtually deployed as a sweeper against Oldham. It seemed we had two players in cole and Bigiamara who were always going to get selected on Saturday and the team formation had to accommodate them. That's not encouraging.

It was a freak result. They should have clearly been down to 10 men and probably 9. We had a clear penalty not given for the handball and a clear penalty not given for the foul on Vincelot.

Sheff Utd didn't threaten all game. Yes, of course it was a freak result. Even Sheff Utd. fans were saying how lucky they were.

mechaishida · Dec 21, 2015

Otis said:
As I've already said, I think the Cole/Armstrong thing didn't work at all well. They were on different wavelengths.

Maddison back in the side and/or Lameiras and that will be sorted.

Our hand was forced in Saturday and we do have to bear that in mind.

Ricketts has been the calming influence in the back four. He was missing.

Fleck has played the pivotal role of DM, stroking the ball about and commanding the midfield. He was missing.

Turner's made a massive difference to the back line and he looked really commanding again on Saturday. He went off injured.

I don't think we can underestimate how much we missed those 3 players, especially Ricketts and Turner.

Oldham had plenty of possession on Saturday but hardly looked like scoring at all and it took a foul/error to nab them a point.

Lorentzson hopefully will be fit soon, so we can send Phillips back to the bench. Think another key factor on Saturday was our having to play Phillips and Haynes, neither of which seem good enough for the top of League One football.

If we can bring in a good replacement for Turner then things should be looking up again. I thought Maddison looked sharp when he came on, so his trickery and ingenuity should make a big difference too.

I wouldn't be surprised to see both Lameiras and Maddison in next weekend.

Well, that shut me up...

Bastard.

Astute · Dec 21, 2015

Is TM playing his more defensive side to cover for the lack of fit defenders we have?

TM isn't a miracle worker. Ricketts out suspended. Turner got injured. Reda been out injured for ages. Younger defenders some saying are not good enough. Yet shall we have a go at TM for picking a side to try and cover our shortfalls in defence?

chiefdave · Dec 21, 2015

Astute said:
I would like to know why it is that those who thought we would be mid table at best are moaning about us dropping to 4th.

This. We're not at a point where we need to start panicking. TM will be seeing the same things we are, just because he's not ranting and raving on CWR doesn't mean he can't see what needs to be done.

But for dodgy referring decisions we'd have a extra 5 points from the last 2 games and be top. Of course that won't help us at the end of the season but it just shows with a slight bit of luck where we would be.

Said it before but we need to see where we are after the January window. Obviously there's players we need to keep but with Reda and now Turner out I think CB needs to be sorted as the first priority. Past that its going to be a case of looking for players that can combine who strengthen the squad. Realistically how many players that fit that description will be looking to move to a L1 side in January?

Warwickhunt · Dec 21, 2015

martcov said:
I would guess that we have a decent budget for this league, otherwise TM would not be here. I also think that we have been rumbled now. The season has been going on long enough for people to assess us especially as we were getting noticed when we were top. Teams like Sheffield and Oldham are not as talented as us, but it seems they know how to reduce our on-target chances.

Hence the reason why Sheffield Utd play defensively at home! the manager realises that his players are not very good and will have to wait until january to get new blood in, did SP not do that with us (worst football i seen for years) and then in January flood the loan system just to get bodies in. Oldham they have picked up more points away than any other team!, reason because their players are not good enough to attack the opposition. there are at least 14 teams in this god damned division who play this way because of poor playing budgets and thats why its so damned hard to get out of it. January/February will sort whos doing what and going where in this league and providing we can go into the new year in the top 2/3 then we will be ok

Huckerby · Dec 21, 2015

Otis said:
As I've already said, I think the Cole/Armstrong thing didn't work at all well. They were on different wavelengths.

Maddison back in the side and/or Lameiras and that will be sorted.

Our hand was forced in Saturday and we do have to bear that in mind.

Ricketts has been the calming influence in the back four. He was missing.

Fleck has played the pivotal role of DM, stroking the ball about and commanding the midfield. He was missing.

Turner's made a massive difference to the back line and he looked really commanding again on Saturday. He went off injured.

I don't think we can underestimate how much we missed those 3 players, especially Ricketts and Turner.

Oldham had plenty of possession on Saturday but hardly looked like scoring at all and it took a foul/error to nab them a point.

Lorentzson hopefully will be fit soon, so we can send Phillips back to the bench. Think another key factor on Saturday was our having to play Phillips and Haynes, neither of which seem good enough for the top of League One football.

If we can bring in a good replacement for Turner then things should be looking up again. I thought Maddison looked sharp when he came on, so his trickery and ingenuity should make a big difference too.

I wouldn't be surprised to see both Lameiras and Maddison in next weekend.

Agree with all

Macca · Dec 21, 2015

Well my minds certainly been put at rest, look forward to automatic promotion dependent on poor referees

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

Macca said:
Well my minds certainly been put at rest, look forward to automatic promotion dependent on poor referees

So sorry to hear you're so unhappy with one defeat in thirteen Macca!

Do you want me to recommended a good therapist?

Grendel · Dec 21, 2015

Macca said:
Well my minds certainly been put at rest, look forward to automatic promotion dependent on poor referees

Or if a centre half lasts more then 45 minutes against one of the worst teams in the division (despite the fact we didn't have one shot before he went off on target) or we play an hopelessly out of form team and they manage to last the game with 11 players

FRY-CCFC · Dec 21, 2015

Grendel said:
Or if a centre half lasts more then 45 minutes against one of the worst teams in the division (despite the fact we didn't have one shot before he went off on target) or we play an hopelessly out of form team and they manage to last the game with 11 players

You sir, are a bit dumb aren't you.

Grendel · Dec 21, 2015

FRY-CCFC said:
You sir, are a bit dumb aren't you.

Articulate?

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

Grendel said:
Articulate?

It's around the 30 quid mark. Hope that helps.

covcity4life · Dec 21, 2015

Grendel said:
Articulate?

beginning

fernandopartridge · Dec 21, 2015

Grendel said:
You keep talking about a freak result against Sheffield based on what? The goal that never was. That would have been an own goal and was pretty much the only real chance we created in the game apart from one with Armstrong.

In 180 minutes, against a couple of teams who've offered zero threat, we've created hardly any openings. Did the Oldham keeper have any saves to make in the game?

You don't need a midfield player virtually deployed as a sweeper against Oldham. It seemed we had two players in cole and Bigiamara who were always going to get selected on Saturday and the team formation had to accommodate them. That's not encouraging.

It's because both teams played to nullify us completely. We still created chances enough to win both. For somebody who rates himself as some sort of thinker, you're sounding a bit hysterical.

wingy · Dec 21, 2015

Look let's not pretend here the aim for this season is promotion, that is the stated aim within the camp,publicly it's two years but in reality now is the time.
Sure there are various threads of misfortune playing a part but there are valid concerns over performance dropping off since we went top.
We just don't appear as energetic to me.
There are also questions being asked on some selections, it is fair enough to me.
For me their may be a bit of deflation going on pending certain loan players status come January, Jacobs comments regarding AA seem to be paving the way for his NU return which is what I heard a couple of weeks back,this will be resolved In Jan if what I was told is correct.
So performances have tailed off for several reasons, yet I have thought we are so well covered in offensive positions at the expense of at least one more defensive cover,Lorentzen partially covers this and Injuries apart it would have been fine.
Anyway those are my thoughts and won't make a tuppeneth of difference.
I'm sure TM knows far better than I what's going on and will address it, been a pleasure to watch them at work this season but it's huge to get the job done, feel free to debunk my views.

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

fernandopartridge said:
It's because both teams played to nullify us completely. We still created chances enough to win both. For somebody who rates himself as some sort of thinker, you're sounding a bit hysterical.

This is true.

Oldham showed absolutely no attacking intent whatsoever at the onset of the game and just stuck everyone behind the ball.

Now football is a game of such fine margins. I'm sure Oldham went in at half time believing their game plan was working and it was, but we should have scored in the first minute (had Armstrong passed I think it would have been odds on) and the same again when Kent went into the penalty area and Joe Cole was completely free and unmarked on the 6 yard box, for what have would almost have been a tap in.

2-0 down and the plan you would have said would have been a disaster. It's such small margins.

I'm sure everyone will admit we were weakened when Turner went off. Haynes is a weaker left back than Stokes and with Stokes having to come inside that therefore weakened our back four.

Also, if you look at their goal, Haynes seemingly does very little at all to help out RCC to jostle their forward out of position.

Oldham definitely set out to nullify us, yet should have been a goal down in the very first minute.

covmark · Dec 21, 2015

We'll smash Vale on Saturday and everything will be rosy again.

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

wingy said:
Look let's not pretend here the aim for this season is promotion, that is the stated aim within the camp,publicly it's two years but in reality now is the time.
Sure there are various threads of misfortune playing a part but there are valid concerns over performance dropping off since we went top.
We just don't appear as energetic to me.
There are also questions being asked on some selections, it is fair enough to me.
For me their may be a bit of deflation going on pending certain loan players status come January, Jacobs comments regarding AA seem to be paving the way for his NU return which is what I heard a couple of weeks back,this will be resolved In Jan if what I was told is correct.
So performances have tailed off for several reasons, yet I have thought we are so well covered in offensive positions at the expense of at least one more defensive cover,Lorentzen partially covers this and Injuries apart it would have been fine.
Anyway those are my thoughts and won't make a tuppeneth of difference.
I'm sure TM knows far better than I what's going on and will address it, been a pleasure to watch them at work this season but it's huge to get the job done, feel free to debunk my views.

I think maybe we weren't so energetic, but as I mentioned on a couple of other threads, it was very bitty cos Joe Cole appeared to be on a different wavelength to many players around him, especially Armstrong.

We just didn't have the flow and understanding that had been there previously.

wingy · Dec 21, 2015

Otis said:
I think maybe we weren't so energetic, but as I mentioned on a couple of other threads, it was very bitty cos Joe Cole appeared to be on a different wavelength to many players around him, especially Armstrong.

We just didn't have the flow and understanding that had been there previously.

Yeah they linked couple of times but couldn't quite connect on either lay-off.
Think there is a little piece in the CT today or from the weekend stating how keen he is to sign.
Talking of doing 70 mins v Vale and 15 V chesterfield.
He admits that still not up to speed and that can only come from matchtime. I really hope there is more to come but he must get in on merit.

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

wingy said:
Yeah they linked couple of times but couldn't quite connect on either lay-off.
Think there is a little piece in the CT today or from the weekend stating how keen he is to sign.
Talking of doing 70 mins v Vale and 15 V chesterfield.
He admits that still not up to speed and that can only come from matchtime. I really hope there is more to come but he must get in on merit.

Yeah and we can ill afford to pick him for 7 or 8 games just to get him up to fitness.

Apart from a couple of dangerous corners he didn't really contribute greatly on Saturday.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Dec 21, 2015

We haven't been at our best in the last 4 matches but no reason we can't go on another 10 game unbeaten run.

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

CCFC said:
We haven't been at our best in the last 4 matches but no reason we can't go on another 10 game unbeaten run.

True and Oldham may well be down the bottom, but they have only been beaten once away in the league all season so far, so they are a very good away side, or certainly know how to gain points.

letsallsingtogether · Dec 21, 2015

Otis said:
True and Oldham may well be down the bottom, but they have only been beaten once away in the league all season so far, so they are a very good away side, or certainly know how to gain points.

Oldham were rubbish.
We have to beat teams like that need to step up to get back in the groove.

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

letsallsingtogether said:
Oldham were rubbish.
We have to beat teams like that need to step up to get back in the groove.

No, I agree. They were very poor. Somehow though they have been picking up points away and have only lost the one game.

Maybe they hold down the home keeper's arm every match, who knows.

chinamans view · Dec 21, 2015

Do most of us think city are better than they really are ? I must do because I always think we will win 5/6 nil and we don't.

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

chinamans view said:
Do most of us think city are better than they really are ? I must do because I always think we will win 5/6 nil and we don't.

Sometimes I think we will thrash teams, but felt on Saturday After about10 mins it might be hard going.

Cutting edge lacking.

stupot07 · Dec 21, 2015

CCFC said:
We haven't been at our best in the last 4 matches but no reason we can't go on another 10 game unbeaten run.

I agree. (This bit isn't aimed at you ->)But that doesn't mean people can't highlight some concerns. Mowbray will be concerned, and will be working on the training ground to rectify them.

No ones panicking, no ones saying we are doomed, just highlighting that we need to turn it around and quick. That's why the boxing game is a must win. I thought we'd be mid table but now we've been on the top 1-2 places for large parts of the season, i've raised my expectations. We need to back an automatic Place, the play offs are too much of a lottery.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Otis · Dec 21, 2015

stupot07 said:
I agree. (This bit isn't aimed at you ->)But that doesn't mean people can't highlight some concerns. Mowbray will be concerned, and will be working on the training ground to rectify them.

No ones panicking, no ones saying we are doomed, just highlighting that we need to turn it around and quick. That's why the boxing game is a must win. I thought we'd be mid table but now we've been on the top 1-2 places for large parts of the season, i've raised my expectations. We need to back an automatic Place, the play offs are too much of a lottery.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

Of course people can highlight some concerns Stu. Don't think anyone has said otherwise.

There are definitely things that need tweaking and adjusting for sure. We've only lost one in thirteen, but are not winning enough lately.

I don't think Port Vale is a must win, but it would be great to get back on track with a victory.

Gazolba · Dec 21, 2015

Warwickhunt said:
at no point on saturday did i feel we were going to lose!

I'm also pretty sure that when we were 1-0 up, you were not confident we were going to win. To get promoted, we need to win, drawing is no good.

Gazolba · Dec 21, 2015

Otis said:
I don't think Port Vale is a must win, but it would be great to get back on track with a victory.

The problem with 'must win' games is we often don't win them. Unfortunately, saying a game is not a 'must win' game does not help.

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