And to think this whole situation (5 Viewers)

covcity4life · May 22, 2014

had a dream last night that cov won first game of season 2-1, wilson scored....................and it was at ricoh!

i was sooooo happy, then even the dream messed up when i read in CET that it was a special one off agreement but talks had broken down and rest of season would be at sixfields.

Jack Griffin · May 22, 2014

Nick said:
So you are saying acl have nothing to do with the company who does the catering etc at the ricoh?

More trouble making from you Nick. I suspect the OP is simply talking nonsense because he is ill informed.

dongonzalos · May 22, 2014

paulw said:
What's your point? I try to stimulate discussion and not be negative.

I have never said Waggott is God that is your quote. I think Waggott has done a great job. I said 'hats off' to the CET. In fact the more I think of it the more I see you are an idiot. You change things to suit yourself.

So you didn't say we shouldn't believe what we read in the CET?
You didn't say this mess is all down to the pie money
And you were not saying SW is the best thing since sliced bread?

Hobo · May 22, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
When Richardson left he wrote off all the debts, the whole £32M or so. *

When SISU bought the club the only debt they had to pay was £8M, mainly to the taxman & probably some 'football debts'. They then financed the club with ~£3M injection of funds, all the additional accumulated debt is down to SISU's mismanagement. Clearly at that time they took on a few contracts that were burning money, and the rent etc., ie what they bought was "encumbered".

The total debt is now, I believe, somewhat north of £45M. Therefore the additional debt incurred is about £32M.

SISU are the organisation that have been running the club at a loss of ~£5M per annum, not Bryan Richardson, not ACL, not CCC, not Geoffrey Robnson, but SISU and SISU alone.

* OK, if the club returned to the prem in a few years he got £6M back, but that was definitely not happening after the first season SISU were in charge.

Totally agree Jack. SISU are accountable for their running of the club nobody else.

martcov · May 22, 2014

Nick said:
So you are saying acl have nothing to do with the company who does the catering etc at the ricoh?

No. I am saying that he is implying that ACL or Council staff are in bed with the caterers. That is potentially libel. ACL have a joint venture with Compass which is legal. It would be different if a member of the council staff was "in bed with the caterers" - the implication being: looking after his own personal interests and not those of his employer. A pretty nasty rumour to start when you have no facts ( or haven't published any ).

Moff · May 22, 2014

shmmeee said:
We were never £60m in debt when Richardson left. That's one thing I believe him on, maybe £20-30m after all the player sales and everything.

McGinnity did far worse for our finances. Blew millions on shit players, brought in crap manager after crap manager, sacked the ones that looked like they might be doing well, gave away half the Ricoh and all the pie money.

Richardson gets a bad rap, but McGinnity should be the one everyone blames.

We were near 60 million in debt when Richardson left. McGinnity actually reduced the overall debt to a lower level, but yes he didn't help it with changing manager every five minutes.

I believe the clubs accounts over those years showed this to be fact, as did work by the Coventry Telegraph. If not we will never know.

What I do know is that Richardson deservedly gets a bad rap, I mean why shouldn't a man who paid himself over 500,000 from Club funds for selling land it DIDNT OWN to Tesco get some shit, because he really does deserve it.

martcov · May 22, 2014

paulw said:
centered on who sold the pies and drinks at half-time. What was the name of the company who ran the refreshments at the Ricoh? Are they associated with ACL or more cynically were they in bed with one of the council or ACL staff?

Can anyone think of a reason to put: or more cynically were they in bed with one of the council or ACL staff?in this post?

"To provoke discussion" is the answer from the OP on another post questioning his motives.

It would be interesting to know his agenda. He hasn't answered my question on that yet.

Astute · May 22, 2014

martcov said:
Can anyone think of a reason to put: or more cynically were they in bed with one of the council or ACL staff?in this post?

"To provoke discussion" is the answer from the OP on another post questioning his motives.

It would be interesting to know his agenda. He hasn't answered my question on that yet.

Everyone is allowed their opinion on here however biased it may seem to some.

But I do agree on what you are saying. It was his 4th ever post on here IIRC that he said a thread should be moved as it was nothing to do with our club. It was about the way SISU had been running our club and what happened the day before at the pre JR case. And then yesterday he started a thread in the same place about Larry Grayson :thinking about:

smouch1975 · May 22, 2014

Arrrhhhh. The return of sky blue pm. Aka Paul Marston.

I like what you did there. Turned the M upside down

PaulM

Cheeky so and so

Nick · May 22, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
More trouble making from you Nick. I suspect the OP is simply talking nonsense because he is ill informed.

How is it trouble making?

I am not sure about the "in bed with" part, but they are certainly linked aren't they which was his first bit?

Nick · May 22, 2014

martcov said:
No. I am saying that he is implying that ACL or Council staff are in bed with the caterers. That is potentially libel. ACL have a joint venture with Compass which is legal. It would be different if a member of the council staff was "in bed with the caterers" - the implication being: looking after his own personal interests and not those of his employer. A pretty nasty rumour to start when you have no facts ( or haven't published any ).

Ahh but surely it is the same as when people say how Paul Appleton is being paid off by SISU etc etc?

He asked a question if they were, if he had started naming names then and saying it as fact then yes.

If it is ACL and libel we will soon find out when somebody gets a PM

chiefdave · May 22, 2014

What I'd love to know, and I doubt we'll ever find out. Is net figures for everyone involved in the Richardson / Robinson / McGinnity era. It's all well and good saying such and such wrote off millions but if overall they made millions it's not such a hardship is it. My suspicion, for which I have no evidence to be clear, has always been that certain individuals did very well while the club continued to struggle.

Astute · May 22, 2014

Nick said:
Ahh but surely it is the same as when people say how Paul Appleton is being paid off by SISU etc etc?

He asked a question if they were, if he had started naming names then and saying it as fact then yes.

If it is ACL and libel we will soon find out when somebody gets a PM

You have a point here Nick.

The way some people go on about him you would think he was chosen by SISU, he didn't notice that players were registered in the wrong place and that he couldn't find the golden share amongst other things.....

martcov · May 22, 2014

Nick said:
Ahh but surely it is the same as when people say how Paul Appleton is being paid off by SISU etc etc?

He asked a question if they were, if he had started naming names then and saying it as fact then yes.

If it is ACL and libel we will soon find out when somebody gets a PM

Tbf Appleton was chosen and paid by SISU group. The golden share vanished and then made a timely reappearance. People can draw their own conclusions without being prompted - or correct. I think PaulW went to the edge by bringing the suggestion of corruption to the debate. Why? Why even "cynically" mention it? There has been no suggestion of corruption until now. Why suggest it?

Nick · May 22, 2014

But Appleton did nothing illegal either did he? So surely for you people to say that it could be libelous but that's ok?

James Smith · May 22, 2014

shmmeee said:
We were never £60m in debt when Richardson left. That's one thing I believe him on, maybe £20-30m after all the player sales and everything.

McGinnity did far worse for our finances. Blew millions on shit players, brought in crap manager after crap manager, sacked the ones that looked like they might be doing well, gave away half the Ricoh and all the pie money.

Richardson gets a bad rap, but McGinnity should be the one everyone blames.

Richardson had put us in a financial hole that subsequent business managements couldn't dig us out of. He was paid over half a million quid as a salary and bonus the year we were relegated which is a small fortune (and a lot more than the currrent directors are getting in total) each year for the position. We bought players without the knowledge of the manager (which is a fairly novel thing to do given they're supposedly in charge of that side of things) and the board who should have been notified of spending those sorts of sums whether on players or something else. He was the largest shareholder but also Chairman and should have been looking out for the interests of all the shareholders in that capacity.

martcov · May 22, 2014

Nick said:
But Appleton did nothing illegal either did he? So surely for you people to say that it could be libelous but that's ok?

I am sure Appleton did nothing illegal and that the main creditor - a member of the SISU group who appointed him ( or chose him to be appointed by the court ) - got what they wanted. SISU remain in charge. No surprise there. That is SISU's field. What they are best at - as opposed to running a football team.

I question the motives of the OP. None of your colleagues, who quite rightly, question assertations from people that think that SISU are largely at fault in our current situation, has ever suggested or even theorised over the possibilty that council staff are in bed with the caterer's.

The OP has suddenly come out of the woodwork - from nowhere - and thrown a suggestion of illegality into the ring at this late stage.

Maybe paranoia is catching...... but I have a gut feeling here...

chiefdave · May 22, 2014

Nick said:
But Appleton did nothing illegal either did he? So surely for you people to say that it could be libelous but that's ok?

I think anyone who works close to the line of legality as administrators can do carry the risk of overstepping the line but without any investigation no one will ever know.

The biggest questions are around all the I don't know what I'm selling, where the share is, where the contracts are etc. While he was saying this someone was leaking out information making him look a touch foolish. Of course we don't know if he had all the information available to him or if SISU, ACL or anyone else involved were keeping things to themselves. There is frustration as most people were expecting what we would consider the club to be put up for sale and that never seemed to happen and we ended up with essentially the same owners and the same level of debt which I think most people would find slightly odd coming out of administration.

Kingokings204 · May 22, 2014

Well I thought the whole point to an administration and a liquidation was that the current or old owners were badly failing and they can't cope hence the business goes to a bidding process essentially and new people come in and hopefully do better.

This was our chance to change owners and push for promotion where as now with the same owners essentially it's just another backwards step. It makes no sense to give back to club to owners who have proved to have failed. A point that doesn't sit well with me at all. We were deducted 10 points and it didn't cost us and the following season as in the one just gone we could of had new Owners so with within 3 year get out of this league.

Isn't this what Southampton done I read recently.... In all sorts of trouble and docked points but administration happened new owners come in and changed their fortunes. How do we end up with the same owners and Southampton don't. Oh sisu then Otium stayed and then moved us from our home which takes the biscuit. If you don't laugh you cry.

shmmeee · May 22, 2014

James Smith said:
Richardson had put us in a financial hole that subsequent business managements couldn't dig us out of. He was paid over half a million quid as a salary and bonus the year we were relegated which is a small fortune (and a lot more than the currrent directors are getting in total) each year for the position. We bought players without the knowledge of the manager (which is a fairly novel thing to do given they're supposedly in charge of that side of things) and the board who should have been notified of spending those sorts of sums whether on players or something else. He was the largest shareholder but also Chairman and should have been looking out for the interests of all the shareholders in that capacity.

I don't doubt he was shit in many many areas, just saying that the £60m figure bandied about was overblown and that McGinnity royally fucked us over while claiming to be doing us a favour, while really riles me.

For all Richardson did, he tried to put a decent team on the pitch, more than can be said for any of his successors, despite all of them running up similar debts.

Astute · May 22, 2014

Nobody has said anything illegal was done. But why couldn't he find anything. Were things hidden from him? Did he not look hard enough? Was it a bit of both? There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of what went on. And then we have people making allegations of ACL/CCC....especially from a new member on here straight after the last court case who even complained about a thread about SISU being in the wrong place.

We are all suspicious about most things going on, but some look more dodgy than others.

martcov · May 22, 2014

Kingokings204 said:
Well I thought the whole point to an administration and a liquidation was that the current or old owners were badly failing and they can't cope hence the business goes to a bidding process essentially and new people come in and hopefully do better.

This was our chance to change owners and push for promotion where as now with the same owners essentially it's just another backwards step. It makes no sense to give back to club to owners who have proved to have failed. A point that doesn't sit well with me at all. We were deducted 10 points and it didn't cost us and the following season as in the one just gone we could of had new Owners so with within 3 year get out of this league.

Isn't this what Southampton done I read recently.... In all sorts of trouble and docked points but administration happened new owners come in and changed their fortunes. How do we end up with the same owners and Southampton don't. Oh sisu then Otium stayed and then moved us from our home which takes the biscuit. If you don't laugh you cry.

It's one thing Appleton doing something illegal, but he didn't need to. The result was SISU got what they wanted - without doing anything illegal. Pity they don't have to file the last sets of accounts though, and that ACL had a rental agreement with a redundant property company called Coventry City Football Club Ltd., which had no football players.

Strange name for a property company though.

bigfatronssba · May 22, 2014

Nick said:
Ahh but surely it is the same as when people say how Paul Appleton is being paid off by SISU etc etc?

He asked a question if they were, if he had started naming names then and saying it as fact then yes.

If it is ACL and libel we will soon find out when somebody gets a PM

It's not really the same though is it? Sisu are a private company and are free to employ the services of whoever they wish. Nothing illegal in that.

What the op is suggesting (that someone at the council has a personal connection with someone at compass) is something that is illegal.

skybluepm2 · May 22, 2014

smouch1975 said:
Arrrhhhh. The return of sky blue pm. Aka Paul Marston.

I like what you did there. Turned the M upside down

PaulM

Are you sure it's him smouch? Doesn't have the same aggressiveness or 'look at me, I'm always right' tone as Mr Marston. He hasn't re-appeared on the Telegraph for quite a while. Must be fed up of being blocked!

Cheeky so and so

torchomatic · May 22, 2014

Ah, you're a Re-Writing History teacher, are you? Like you say "that's the wonderful thing about propaganda", repeat it enough and people will believe it. You'll no doubt be telling us he was a fantastic chairman before too long.

To be honest I don't think there's much that's "far worse" than selling a ground we owned and played in for 106 years.

Richardson gets a bad wrap because he was a crook who fleeced this club dry. A chairman who earned more than the Premier League chairman, who earned himself a cool £300K for the Tesco deal.

shmmeee said:
We were never £60m in debt when Richardson left. That's one thing I believe him on, maybe £20-30m after all the player sales and everything.

McGinnity did far worse for our finances. Blew millions on shit players, brought in crap manager after crap manager, sacked the ones that looked like they might be doing well, gave away half the Ricoh and all the pie money.

Richardson gets a bad rap, but McGinnity should be the one everyone blames.

Danceswithhorses · May 22, 2014

The only thing we can say for sure, is that we don't really know any nailed on facts whatsoever, due to all the secrecy and confidentiality clauses signed.
Everything is just speculation, opinion, half-truths and gossip.

Jack Griffin · May 22, 2014

Personally I wouldn't be stupid enough to accuse someone of being a crook without evidence.

Moff · May 22, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
Personally I wouldn't be stupid enough to accuse someone of being a crook without evidence.

So paying yourself 500k for the sale of land you or the club dont own, and wouldnt until the Council bailed us out, isnt evidence enough?

henry the wasp · May 22, 2014

paulw said:
centered on who sold the pies and drinks at half-time. What was the name of the company who ran the refreshments at the Ricoh? Are they associated with ACL or more cynically were they in bed with one of the council or ACL staff?

I'm sure Joy could have asked Sir Ian Robinson, a non exec director of the Compass Group at a meeting of the Takeover panel which they both sit on.

skybluetony176 · May 22, 2014

henry the wasp said:
I'm sure Joy could have asked Sir Ian Robinson, a non exec director of the Compass Group at a meeting of the Takeover panel which they both sit on.

That's not possible. Someone connected to ACL and someone connected to Sisu can't work together. It's the law according to ML.

martcov · May 22, 2014

martcov said:
General knowledge questions for RFC:

Did our club sell the F&B rights?

Did our club have the option to buy the Higgs' share?

Can our club have the F&B rights without owning the stadium, e.g. when they lease the stadium, ( ACL get a share of the F&B and don't own the stadium )?

If the club dropped the JR, told ML to shut up and announced a willingness to negotiate with CCC to find a solution to these problems, do you think that we would have a better chance of at least talking about moving forwards?

I will enjoy a relaxed evening awaiting the answers and tell you if you're right tomorrow.

This was addressed at RFC yesterday. Still no answer.

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