Andy Thorn (15 Viewers)

Grendel · Feb 19, 2012

Astute said:
We have done the best on the last 10 games than any other 10. Still not good enough though.

Ah though I hear you say. An experienced manager would do better. So why are Forest near the bottom with their squad?

Though factually correct it is misleading. 2 wins towards the end of December is difficult to make worse. The bar was set too low. Why even mention forest, who cares anyway. Name of the game is survival which will not be achieved. To absolve the manager totally is naive.

Have we improved away from hone? No got worse actually so if we can obtain results in a handful of games why so poor in others? Is none of this down to tactics. Why if the players really play for the manager are they so selective? Why with thorn in charge have we only ever won 1 game. All sisus fault or perhaps a bit down to thorn.

We need a good manager not an experienced one. Coleman and boothroyd were failures and the same man who appointed them chose thorn which may tell you something.

I suspect you mention forest as your next attempt to avoid answering any of the issues raised above to suggest would I rather have cotterill your definition of an experienced manager. I suggest you view this another way how many of the other 23 clubs in the league are envious we have thorn?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Feb 19, 2012

Lets be fair though the majority of players were nothing short of a disgrace.

This was our best chance to move out of the bottom 3 since like September, for the players to not be motivated and put in such a poor performance was criminal. I realise it is the managers job to motivate the players but if a player could not motivate himself for yesterdays game when we could have moved out the bottom 3 is very disappointing.

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 19, 2012

Astute, thìs away form is indefensible even in SISU's context. Why? Because a very different City turns up at the Ricoh and plays with some belief and tempo. What it shows is that AT has his away set up just plain wrong-and 3/48 points is all the evidence you need for that.

Otis · Feb 19, 2012

Astute said:
One that I have repeatedly said is quality of squad and players on the bench. Our playets are knackered at the end of games through effort put in. Forest are having a bad season like us, but how many of their players they had on their bench would get to start for us? Then how many of our squad would be good enough to even get on their bench? They also have an experienced manager, so them doing as bad as us with better players shows us it is not just down to AT.

This is just my opinion, and I suppose I am deluded again.

Interestinly enough however, Thorn has said tiredness and fitness are not a factor for our woes. He totally refuted that when put to him.

Otis · Feb 19, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Astute, thìs away form is indefensible even in SISU's context. Why? Because a very different City turns up at the Ricoh and plays with some belief and tempo. What it shows is that AT has his away set up just plain wrong-and 3/48 points is all the evidence you need for that.

Agree, we are setting up our stall incorrectly for away games.

IrishSkyBlue · Feb 19, 2012

Ive gave my support to thorn for long while but after watching the game online and seeing his post match interview im saying it now he has to go. hes just not up to it and doesnt know what to do.hes going having us playing league 1 next season just man up thorn and admit it. sisu are to blame aswel for not firing sooner then later sisu and thorn are ruining our club and unless theres a change now so we can try to susrvive we are doomed.

@richh87 · Feb 19, 2012

Otis said:
Agree, we are setting up our stall incorrectly for away games.

There is definitely a difference away from home.

I just wonder if it's because kids like Clarke are bottling it.

Since we all agree Forest's subs would walk into our team surely that shows how poor a squad Thorn has been dealt? Where would Forest be if he was manager? Much higher I'd suggest - and playing the passing football they were calling for at yesterday's game.

I'm sorry but Thorn has worked wonders with these resources. By rights - with SISU's attitude towards our club we should be even lower.

Astute · Feb 19, 2012

kduffy said:
Though factually correct it is misleading. 2 wins towards the end of December is difficult to make worse. The bar was set too low. Why even mention forest, who cares anyway. Name of the game is survival which will not be achieved. To absolve the manager totally is naive.

Have we improved away from hone? No got worse actually so if we can obtain results in a handful of games why so poor in others? Is none of this down to tactics. Why if the players really play for the manager are they so selective? Why with thorn in charge have we only ever won 1 game. All sisus fault or perhaps a bit down to thorn.

We need a good manager not an experienced one. Coleman and boothroyd were failures and the same man who appointed them chose thorn which may tell you something.

I suspect you mention forest as your next attempt to avoid answering any of the issues raised above to suggest would I rather have cotterill your definition of an experienced manager. I suggest you view this another way how many of the other 23 clubs in the league are envious we have thorn?

So I am not allowed to mention Forest, but anyone else can say AT needs to go after losing to Forest???? All I said was about all of their players would get into our 1st team as they have better plauers than us. Is this true or not? Then you wonder why they beat us. Yes we lost away as usual, but they should win at our place also

valiant15 · Feb 19, 2012

We cant get much lower rich.

procdoc · Feb 19, 2012

Here is my take on this. I've backed thorn throughout the season because his hands have been tied by Sisu and he lost half his squad in the summer. However he knows the limitations of the job and I feel it's now time for someone else to have a crack at keeping us up. I think we need an experienced fire fighter to get the players scrapping more, especially away. Who is there out there for that job some of you might ask and truthfully I can't answer that but there must be someone who can help keep us up. I think where Thorn has gone wrong is his tactics away from home as proved by the lack of points on the road. Also his inability to react to opposition tactical tweaks and substitutions is very alarming. The players also need to take some of the responsibility, particularly the more experienced ones.

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 19, 2012

Still, no 'Thorn Out' chants from the stands-which is surprising going on what you read here.

procdoc · Feb 19, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Still, no 'Thorn Out' chants from the stands-which is surprising going on what you read here.

A majority of the fans vitriol is aimed at the owners so thorn does escape criticism at times but although I think time should be called on his tenure I'm not stupid enough to aim anger and insults at thorn. He's tried his best and he's not been good enough but he's been shafted by the owners. It's a difficult one really to be honest!

Otis · Feb 19, 2012

Astute said:
So I am not allowed to mention Forest, but anyone else can say AT needs to go after losing to Forest???? All I said was about all of their players would get into our 1st team as they have better plauers than us. Is this true or not? Then you wonder why they beat us. Yes we lost away as usual, but they should win at our place also

You do wonder why they beat us as they had won just once in 10 games, had scored just one goal in 8 games, the fans hate the manager, there's rumours of the players not wanting to play for him and they'd let in more goals at home than any other team in the entire division.

That is why you wonder why they beat us.

I didn't wonder, i predicted defeat as we are clueless away from the Ricoh.

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 19, 2012

procdoc said:
A majority of the fans vitriol is aimed at the owners so thorn does escape criticism at times but although I think time should be called on his tenure I'm not stupid enough to aim anger and insults at thorn. He's tried his best and he's not been good enough but he's been shafted by the owners. It's a difficult one really to be honest!

I'm not saying I want us all screaming for his head, rather that for all the whinging on CWR and City forums, I'm surprised it hasn't found its way to the stands.

Otis · Feb 19, 2012

My take on it is that when the players are on the pitch the fans on the whole wish to try and back them as best as they can. It's a combination of that and apathy.

Nick · Feb 19, 2012

Astute said:
So I am not allowed to mention Forest, but anyone else can say AT needs to go after losing to Forest???? All I said was about all of their players would get into our 1st team as they have better plauers than us. Is this true or not? Then you wonder why they beat us. Yes we lost away as usual, but they should win at our place also

So what about when we play the same 11 players against the same team at home and away? Do you still not question AT's tactical skills?

Astute · Feb 19, 2012

Maybe when people are at the game they hope that none of the players have to be used ;-)

Would it help shouting for Thorns head? He is not the best manager by far, but also not the worse. The worse ones are the ones wit much better squads and down near us. Could he have done more if he had the same bench as Forest yesterday? Most of them would have started for us so we would have been able to change things if needed

Brighton Sky Blue · Feb 19, 2012

Otis said:
My take on it is that when the players are on the pitch the fans on the whole wish to try and back them as best as they can. It's a combination of that and apathy.

On the whole yes-but there's usually a vocal minority.

procdoc · Feb 19, 2012

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I'm not saying I want us all screaming for his head, rather that for all the whinging on CWR and City forums, I'm surprised it hasn't found its way to the stands.

Us who write on here and people who ring cwr are an extremely small percentage of our overall support

Nick · Feb 19, 2012

procdoc said:
Us who write on here and people who ring car are an extremely small percentage of our overall support

Exactly, I think there are about 2500 members signed up to here. I would say about 1000 who use the site regularly and probably 100 who post a lot. Very small %.

When I say I don't like Thorn's tactics it is by no means me saying I want him to be dragged out the back and given a kickin, or that he is a fat twat like some people seem to say. It is merely based on what happens on the pitch, I have never been a boo boy to players or managers at the games.

procdoc · Feb 19, 2012

Nick said:
Exactly, I think there are about 2500 members signed up to here. I would say about 1000 who use the site regularly and probably 100 who post a lot. Very small %.

When I say I don't like Thorn's tactics it is by no means me saying I want him to be dragged out the back and given a kickin, or that he is a fat twat like some people seem to say. It is merely based on what happens on the pitch, I have never been a boo boy to players or managers at the games.

I agree nick, I couldn't care less how fat the manager is, if thorn was 30 stone but got great results nobody would throw such childish insults at him, but that is a small minority on here

Paxman II · Feb 19, 2012

Wow! feelings run high about our manager. Hmm.

Accusations apart, deep divisions in the running of the club play a big part BUT tbf I think that is masking everyone's opinion slightly.

If I'm being honest we do actually have a half decent team, one which has competed all season and acquitted itself relatively well in trying circumstances, without a large squad.
We lack a few bits of extra quality here and there as all teams do. However we have toyed with the diamond formation for far too long and never got results under it all season really. Recently Thorn finally changed that around a bit and we got some home results. We have never been ripped apart in any game I recall. Our defeats primarily have been by defensive errors. I take the view we are weak at the central back partnership even though Keogh has been 'seen' to be outstanding many times.
We have picked up in the last month or so and won at home and from there optimism was that away from home there is no reason why we could not start to improve and get the odd points here and there we needed.

The additions of Nimely who has given us pace and Norwood some quality, have enhanced the team.
When you bother to study other teams in the league and their players we most certainly are not the worst.

As with Cotterill who arguably has a much stronger squad than our own he is failing to get consistent results.
Thorn has that at home at least now but away from home he is failing badly.
Whatever he is doing wrong he should have recognized it before now. Hell it's taken him most of the season to start getting it right at home! He change the formation against Leeds and it paid off so he attempted to do similar at Forest because that's all he knows. "lets try do the same again" is not very astute tactics.

It all suggest he is a man without true skills in football coaching ability. No one could surely be any worse I think is the question being posed by many....and they surely would be right?

Our players are being paid, they are at a good football club unlike Pompey's misfortune. So I don't buy this whole SISU are the root of all the problems on the pitch attitude.

The momentum should have been with us yesterday and Thorn really should have been able to galvanize a result by hook or by crook from that position... seize the moment kinda thing. He couldn't and for whatever reason players just did not respond in the second half when we had already shown we were the better side in the first 45 minutes?

That's why most on here now are finally coming to the conclusion a change would not make anything worse and Thorn simply has nothing left to offer his charges. I certainly feel that way.
There is no lack of passion from him or desire and the players wanting to play for him but sometimes that's not enough.
Players too become too comfortable under a manager they all like. A manager with a different approach may do the trick and certainly can't possibly do any worse...so why not try that option? (and please no nonsense about can't afford one)
Grayson to use an example is out of work, out of the game where there is a very, very competitive market place now of managers unable to get work. Would he if offered, come in till the end of the season to try and keep us up? You bet he would or any number of others out there.
I'd take that in a heartbeat.

stupot07 · Feb 19, 2012

The problem is paxman, although you say we have half decent team we haven't got the quality where it counts, and is why we struggle to score goals, particularly away from home. Platt for all his endeavour is not a goal scorer (his career stats back that up), sheffers is 5 years past his peak, and nimely is a kid, and although exciting doesn't look a goal threat. We sold our top scorer who at the time had scored half of all our goals.

Paxman II · Feb 19, 2012

i agree but with reserve. Forest are in fact a classic example. They have quality in their squad all over the place but until yestaerday can't score goals.
It's how you coach and set up what you have. You can't continue to blame lack of quality or kids. Nimely has himself had plenty of chances recently and looks like he can score easily at this level but needs a system to play to......

stupot07 · Feb 19, 2012

He's still a kid paxman, who's made what 5 competitive starts in his career. You can't expect him to come in and score for fun, even with good coaching. It took juke 3/4 of a season to start scoring from open play.

Otis · Feb 19, 2012

Interesting.

So when he plays brilliantly he is a class player and too good for a club like us, but when we lose and he doesn't play so well .... he's still just a kid!!

:thinking about:

Grendel · Feb 19, 2012

@richh87 said:
There is definitely a difference away from home.

I just wonder if it's because kids like Clarke are bottling it.

Since we all agree Forest's subs would walk into our team
surely that shows how poor a squad Thorn has been dealt? Where would Forest be if he was manager? Much higher I'd suggest - and playing the passing football they were calling for at yesterday's game.

I'm sorry but Thorn has worked wonders with these resources. By rights - with SISU's attitude towards our club we should be even lower.

This is the reason that many people who take a different view become frustrated. A series of rambling statements with no factual content. All irrelevant. Should we be lower? Who knows? As the the forest job forget it. Do you seriously think a man who clearly never trained to be a manager would even be considered for a job like that? Not a hope.

Also you seem to have a thing about Clarke. I notice on another thread you hit the like button for a comment that Clarke is shite as always. So, fine to applaud an insult at one of our young players (about the same level of intellect as the thorn is fat brigade) and yet people who offer constructive criticism of his management methods you call them morons and sick.

To be that seems double standards at best.

oldskyblue58 · Feb 19, 2012

Despite the results AT sets up not to lose or not to concede many - he doesnt set up to win and score goals consistently as such.

We play keep ball in our own half at a slow pace that allows teams time to organise, get in position and to defend against us. It isnt just about the forwards scoring we should be able to score from all over the pitch. How many goals has our midfield players scored? There is more to it than being the forwards fault or their limitations. Because we play so deep we dont support the strikers and they become isolated, easier to defend against. Because we play so deep, so slowly it makes it harder for the strikers. Because eventually the defence or midfield run out of passing options they then hit a long diagonal ball towards Platt which is a fifty fifty ball at best.

We have lots possession yes but it isnt effective very often. Yes if we have the ball then they cant score, but if we dont threaten often the opposition goal either. Sometimes to take the pressure off the defence, who will eventually make mistakes, you have to have prolonged periods in and around the opposition box - those periods are not the first twenty minutes or the last 10 it would seem. That is how AT sets the team up to play - pretty and safe football will not keep us in this division but there is still time to stay in this division if we have the courage and set up to go out and win

We have the raw materials - we have won games, plenty on here bemoan our luck when we match most other teams, we dont concede too many, - simply do not accept that we couldnt stay up with this squad, but we wont playing safe and ineffective football. Effective is actually putting the other team under pressure so they make mistakes and we score goals - which is afterall the object of the game .... score more than the other team

just my opinion

Otis · Feb 19, 2012

And an opinion I very much agree with.

It's not just about Sisu and the players and the quality and the size of squad, it's also how we set out our stall in games.

stupot07 · Feb 19, 2012

Otis said:
Interesting.

So when he plays brilliantly he is a class player and too good for a club like us, but when we lose and he doesn't play so well .... he's still just a kid!! :thinking about:

I've always said he was kid, an exciting prospect but still a kid.

Otis · Feb 19, 2012

To me he is already appears to be a better player than Juke.

Nick · Feb 19, 2012

oldskyblue58 said:
Despite the results At sets up not to lose or not to concede many - he doesnt set up to win and score goals consistently as such.

We play keep ball in our own half at a slow pace that allows teams time to organise, get in position and to defend against us. It isnt just about the forwards scoring we should be able to score from all over the pitch. How many goals has our midfield players scored? There is more to it than being the forwards fault or their limitations. Because we play so deep we dont support the strikers and they become isolated, easier to defend against. Because we play so deep, so slowly it makes it harder for the strikers. Because eventually the defence or midfield run out of passing options they then hit a long diagonal ball towards Platt which is a fifty fifty ball at best.

We have lots possession yes but it isnt effective very often. Yes if we have the ball then they cant score, but if we dont threaten often the opposition goal either. Sometimes to take the pressure off the defence, who will eventually make mistakes, you have to have prolonged periods in and around the opposition box - those periods are not the first twenty minutes or the last 10 it would seem. That is how AT sets the team up to play - pretty and safe football will not keep us in this division but there is still time to stay in this division if we have the courage and set up to go out and win

just my opinion

Spot On!!!!

BackRoomRummermill · Feb 19, 2012

Hopefully Thorn will go soon, he has nothing to offer, take a look at the table.

All the people that have ripped me up for wweks (you know who you are ) are as much to blame for us being in this position than Thorn for supporting a person without the capability of taking the helm of CCFC as a safe pair of hands. You obviously have no idea.

I get back to UK at the end of March for a while and will attend all the games home and away as usual , if Thorn is still in the job I will not bother. The reason why is that I will be kicked out as I would want to ask Thorn to put all the money back he has been paid into CCFC as the way I see it any of us could do what he has done

Please Thorn go now

Tonylinc · Feb 19, 2012

Exactly OSB. Is this not the same critisism which we all had of CC however?

Paxman II · Feb 19, 2012

...I'm sorry but I thought the only thing Juke was any good at was taking penalties! On many, many occasions he couldn't hit a barn door.
As for holding up play and bringing others into it Platt is as good and rather like Juke on many occasions pretty ineffective yesterday.

The system must adapt away from home including player picks. Baker was having a mare yesterday but Thorn didn't use Bell?

Truth is we all see what could get better and yet Thorn says he doesn't know anymore?! Time to change it then.

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