Anne Lucas (1 Viewer)

grego_gee · Jan 26, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
I didn't see it, but these 2 tweets say unfettered freehold, which dose not rule out freehold but means any new freeholder has to honour the existing lease & contracts.

Interesting scenario - SISU want the "Free" Freehold but can't have it.
The council may be prepared to sell them the freehold but with existing leases in place......
If SISU bought that - they still would not own the CCC half of ACL - so they would presumably be asked to pay more for that! and still be left with the Higgs share to deal with, along with existing contracts in place for the hotel, catering et al.

Not surprising if they decide not to and opt to build their own space!

You'll Never Beat McPake · Jan 26, 2014

She looks like Diedrie Barlows twin sister.Are they related?

italiahorse · Jan 26, 2014

skyblusam said:
Surely if the stadiums for sale or not should be decided by the people of coventry as we are the ones that rearly own it as were the taxpayers who paid for it and continue to do so.

You do choose. You vote them in and out.

chiefdave · Jan 26, 2014

torchomatic said:
That's the problem though, isn't it? She "implies", she "probably" means this or that. It was the same after the council meeting. Everything is still as clear as mud.

The message from the council seems very clear to me. They are happy to listen to reasonable offers for their share in ACL, they are happy to listen to offers for the encumbered freehold. As it is virtually impossible for them to offer the unencumbered freehold that is not for sale.

It's been a clear and consistent message.

italiahorse · Jan 26, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
Why are they cutting services fuck me if you don't know the answer to that we are all fucked.

Every Council in the country are having to cut services and jobs.

But people see what they want to see.

So they sell the Ricoh for 5 million pounds what service will that save for 6 months.

Then what next?

As both guests said. What is the point of selling an asset as a one off against debts, when assets can continue to provide an income for the foreseeable future.

As supporters we would want the Ricoh for the club for nothing. But the club will never have it as it would be owned by Sisu. I would sooner the stability of the asset in the hands of the council than in the hands of sisu.

CCFC will always rent off someone. The only variable will be the amount.
Zero rent plus match day costs sounds unbeatable to me.

chiefdave · Jan 26, 2014

grego_gee said:
Interesting scenario - SISU want the "Free" Freehold but can't have it.
The council may be prepared to sell them the freehold but with existing leases in place......
If SISU bought that - they still would not own the CCC half of ACL - so they would presumably be asked to pay more for that! and still be left with the Higgs share to deal with, along with existing contracts in place for the hotel, catering et al.

That's the reason everyone, except SISU it seems, knows that pushing the freehold is pointless. They need to purchase ACL. Higgs agreed to sell their 50% for £5m but SISU didn't complete the deal. Even if the new ground comes in on budget of £25m they could offer CCC £20m for their share, clearing the loan and making a profit, and have a much better stadium with more revenue streams, in Coventry, for the same price.

M&B Stand · Jan 26, 2014

letsallsingtogether said:
Why are they cutting services fuck me if you don't know the answer to that we are all fucked.

Every Council in the country are having to cut services and jobs.

But people see what they want to see.

So they sell the Ricoh for 5 million pounds what service will that save for 6 months.

Then what next?

Hardly a great argument to continue to out price a football club from its home. (I know we'd be better off paying the Ricoh rent than Northampton, but sisu are equally to blame) they're both killing the club.

Lorksalordy · Jan 26, 2014

At least we now have a new term to add to the endless circular debate of nonsense - this week it all appears to hinge on "unfettered". To think only last week I was unaware of the importance of fettered v unfettered leases to a promotion push. Deep sigh and on it goes…..

Noggin · Jan 26, 2014

torchomatic said:
Nothing. However, it is annoying when on one hand, services (and vital ones) are being cut to the bone due to smaller settlements from central government, and on the other you have a massive piece of real estate that is being underutilised, whether through the fault of the council or not.

Yes, we are closing youth centres, care homes, etc but look we have a great empty football stadium to make you proud. I know I'm simplifying things there and it's not as straightforward as that.

Yes the council doesn't have enough money and has to cut vital services, this is all the more reason why they shouldn't get fleeced by sisu. I completely support the football club owning the stadium and I used to completely support that it be sold to sisu but now they have demonstrated clearly multiple times over that they have no interest in doing whats best for the football club and so should never be allowed to buy the stadium for less than market value.

James Smith · Jan 26, 2014

Warwickhunt said:
Staged managed questions! What crock of shit they need fucking Paxman asking the questions talking about real council issues such as why they are cutting services which is causing untold damage to the community . They hide behind issues like the arena saying its a community assert what utter shite ask your neighbour who has got a disabled child if they care about the so called community asset such as the arena

I agree but we need Paxo doing Fisher, Labovitch & Seppala as well. Can you imagine Labovitch being questioned by Paxo? I'd pay to watch that.

Grendel · Jan 26, 2014

James Smith said:
I agree but we need Paxo doing Fisher, Labovitch & Seppala as well. Can you imagine Labovitch being questioned by Paxo? I'd pay to watch that.

I'm sure you would. However I think the likes of mutton and Mucas would find the experience far more difficult. Having a fag outside the Shepard or delivering pints of milk would be, in my view, poor preparation for such an experience.

Jack Griffin · Jan 26, 2014

chiefdave said:
The message from the council seems very clear to me. They are happy to listen to reasonable offers for their share in ACL, they are happy to listen to offers for the encumbered freehold. As it is virtually impossible for them to offer the unencumbered freehold that is not for sale.

It's been a clear and consistent message.

Don't worry Labovich won't get it.

Grendel · Jan 26, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
Don't worry Labovich won't get it.

He does get it. Only a complete cretin would accept that offer. Mucas has confirmed what we always knew. The club is a cash cow to the council - nothing more and nothing less.

mds · Jan 26, 2014

Give them the ground, have agreed prices to bet met on resale or a specific date if not met ownerships go back to the current. Higgs just want out apparently, agree a price to be paid in the future, add a % for inflation same for ACL, let Sisu take full control of the arena, if they cant turn things round what does anyone lose apart from time? Rent to buy!
Obviously not that straight forward with tennants and contracts but something along them lines could work!

letsallsingtogether · Jan 26, 2014

How can they be a cash cow when they play in Northampton, and when at the Ricoh never paid there Rent?

Grendel said:
He does get it. Only a complete cretin would accept that offer. Mucas has confirmed what we always knew. The club is a cash cow to the council - nothing more and nothing less.

Jack Griffin · Jan 26, 2014

Grendel said:
He does get it. Only a complete cretin would accept that offer. Mucas has confirmed what we always knew. The club is a cash cow to the council - nothing more and nothing less.

I'm guessing you have trouble with the concept of irony..

italiahorse · Jan 26, 2014

Grendel said:
He does get it. Only a complete cretin would accept that offer. Mucas has confirmed what we always knew. The club is a cash cow to the council - nothing more and nothing less.

It was a win win for all parties when Premiership beckoned. Unfortunately Sisu got desperate when the plans went wrong.
ACL/CCC could have been more lenient I suggest with the rent but any reductions for lower league status had not been taken by earlier CCFC management.

James Smith · Jan 26, 2014

Lorksalordy said:
At least we now have a new term to add to the endless circular debate of nonsense - this week it all appears to hinge on "unfettered". To think only last week I was unaware of the importance of fettered v unfettered leases to a promotion push. Deep sigh and on it goes…..

My boss thought that the shop analogy that Mr Labovitch put forward in the SCG was odd. If you have a great business idea for a shop you firstly don't need the freehold of the building to implement your plan. Secondly you are unlikely to want to buy/rent a building with a sitting tenant you'd get one that's vacant.

Now obviously there are differences between football stadia and retail, availability of premises being the main one. However if that is the case you would just buy out the tenant and acquire their lease. No need to have the freehold or to have the landlord destroy another business. We couldn't understand why Sisu are finding this so difficult to do, or in the case of Mr Labovitch to understand apparently.

mark82 · Jan 26, 2014

valiant15 said:
What more do you want the council to do? They don't own the football club. They can't force sisu to bring the club home.

They could at least discuss selling with sisu.

Grendel · Jan 26, 2014

James Smith said:
My boss thought that the shop analogy that Mr Labovitch put forward in the SCG was odd. If you have a great business idea for a shop you firstly don't need the freehold of the building to implement your plan. Secondly you are unlikely to want to buy/rent a building with a sitting tenant you'd get one that's vacant.

Now obviously there are differences between football stadia and retail, availability of premises being the main one. However if that is the case you would just buy out the tenant and acquire their lease. No need to have the freehold or to have the landlord destroy another business. We couldn't understand why Sisu are finding this so difficult to do, or in the case of Mr Labovitch to understand apparently.

As I'm of the belief Mucas is your boss I can believe you when she struggled to understand it.

James Smith · Jan 26, 2014

Grendel said:
As I'm of the belief Mucas is your boss I can believe you when she struggled to understand it.

So what do you think of Mr Labovitch and his shop analogy? Oh and (again) I don't work for any public body in the city of Coventry or elsewhere and never have done.

blueflint · Jan 26, 2014

Grendel said:
As I'm of the belief Mucas is your boss I can believe you when she struggled to understand it.

meowwwwwwwwwww

Jack Griffin · Jan 26, 2014

mark82 said:
They could at least discuss selling with sisu.

I think this is a case of the mountain having to come to Mohammed not the converse.

Ann Lucas says she's willing to talk to 'any sensible legitimate business person with any offer to make'

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-council-leader-says-ricoh-6370106

shmmeee · Jan 26, 2014

grego_gee said:
Interesting scenario - SISU want the "Free" Freehold but can't have it.
The council may be prepared to sell them the freehold but with existing leases in place......
If SISU bought that - they still would not own the CCC half of ACL - so they would presumably be asked to pay more for that! and still be left with the Higgs share to deal with, along with existing contracts in place for the hotel, catering et al.

Not surprising if they decide not to and opt to build their own space!

Not surprising if you're looking at it from a property developer's POV.

The entire thing is surprising if you look at it from a football club owner's POV.

shmmeee · Jan 26, 2014

M&B Stand said:
Hardly a great argument to continue to out price a football club from its home. (I know we'd be better off paying the Ricoh rent than Northampton, but sisu are equally to blame) they're both killing the club.

How, in the blue fuck, is offering something for free "pricing a football club from it's home". Sisu are not equally to blame, they are entirely to blame, revenue streams have been on offer for years, the health of the club isn't their concern, the health of their balance sheets is.

torchomatic · Jan 26, 2014

It's as equally as ridiculous as comparing the sale of the stadium with that of a house.

James Smith said:
My boss thought that the shop analogy that Mr Labovitch put forward in the SCG was odd. If you have a great business idea for a shop you firstly don't need the freehold of the building to implement your plan. Secondly you are unlikely to want to buy/rent a building with a sitting tenant you'd get one that's vacant.

Now obviously there are differences between football stadia and retail, availability of premises being the main one. However if that is the case you would just buy out the tenant and acquire their lease. No need to have the freehold or to have the landlord destroy another business. We couldn't understand why Sisu are finding this so difficult to do, or in the case of Mr Labovitch to understand apparently.

James Smith · Jan 26, 2014

torchomatic said:
It's as equally as ridiculous as comparing the sale of the stadium with that of a house.

Yeah I came around to that conclusion too, the supply of stadia is a major difference.

letsallsingtogether · Jan 26, 2014

And you were turned down for that diner ladies job is that why you hate them so much?

Grendel said:
As I'm of the belief Mucas is your boss I can believe you when she struggled to understand it.

grego_gee · Jan 26, 2014

shmmeee said:
Not surprising if you're looking at it from a property developer's POV.

The entire thing is surprising if you look at it from a football club owner's POV.

I have to cofess that as an achitect I am closer to the former.
but in reality they don't appear to have any choice.
The real story here is what the poor coucil will be left with
a stadium without a team is pretty worthless
the conversion to council offices will be very expensive!

The Gentleman · Jan 26, 2014

grego_gee said:
I have to cofess that as an achitect I am closer to the former.
but in reality they don't appear to have any choice.
The real story here is what the poor coucil will be left with
a stadium without a team is pretty worthless
the conversion to council offices will be very expensive!

Not unless the employees want a kickabout at lunch!

Astute · Jan 26, 2014

Grendel said:
He does get it. Only a complete cretin would accept that offer. Mucas has confirmed what we always knew. The club is a cash cow to the council - nothing more and nothing less.

Do you think that chatting all this shit will get the Ricoh gifted to Joy for her investors.

Do you even know what a cash cow is? It has been nothing but trouble for CCC from the start. But they have never taken a penny from it. So AL says that the freehold won't be sold anytime soon. With the stupid offers and lies coming from Joy and her idiots in tow do you say that CCC should pay off every penny owed on the stadium and all contracts paid off so Joy can then buy it for next to nothing as she wants so she can get a return for her so called investors?

So CCC should pay 20m or more to sell the freehold of the Ricoh just because Grendull says :thinking about:

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