Anyone know much about employment law on here? (1 Viewer)

Otis · Jun 7, 2016

Reason I ask is ... and will try and do the shortened version by using bullet points.

Retail store - Supervisor told employee to do something. Came back 45 mins later and the employee hadn't done it, so the supervisor calmly (apparently) told the employee off.

Employee starts shouting and refuses to do the job and says she is being picked on because she is Asian.

My missus works there part time. By all accounts the employee is not liked by anyone on the shop floor (always slacking and then playing the victim). However, the manager for some reason likes her.

Bosses then asked for confidential witness statements from all those employees around the incident.

Everyone interviewed individually, but then the disciplined employee is called in and the store manager let's her read everyone's confidential witness statements talking about her. Names were not removed to protect the identity of the people making the witness statements.

Surely that's not right is it? Surely those witness statements should remain anonymous and confidential.

Just doesn't sound right to me at all. This employee now knows everything everyone has said about her.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 7, 2016

Doesn't sound remotely right at all!

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/key-definitions/

Otis · Jun 7, 2016

Cheers, NW.

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Deleted member 5849 · Jun 7, 2016

And no, I don't kbnow anything... but do know the person at my workplace who does, is constantly impressing on us not to reveal names and personal information... for years after events!

Otis · Jun 7, 2016

My missus said they let this employee take the witness statements home to read at her leisure.

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Nick · Jun 7, 2016

Is it a chain or does he own it? Speak to hr department

Monners · Jun 7, 2016

Environmental law yes, but best to avoid water quality and EU Directives me thinks!

Otis · Jun 7, 2016

Nick said:
Is it a chain or does he own it? Speak to hr department

Luckily, my missus didn't see much and when she did her witness statement I amended it for her and told her to take out all her opinions and just stick to the facts.

Others though I think were quite scathing about this employee, as she has always caused trouble and slacked too.

Nick · Jun 7, 2016

Otis said:
Luckily, my missus didn't see much and when she did her witness statement I amended it for her and told her to take out all her opinions and just stick to the facts.

Others though I think were quite scathing about this employee, as she has always caused trouble and slacked too.

Can't they just cut out the supervisor and go to the regional manager or something?

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 7, 2016

Otis said:
Luckily, my missus didn't see much and when she did her witness statement I amended it for her and told her to take out all her opinions and just stick to the facts.

Others though I think were quite scathing about this employee, as she has always caused trouble and slacked too.

HR, right away.

Seems like just about everybody could have a case for grievances at this rate!

armybike · Jun 7, 2016

There's absolutely no justification for the employee to have had sight of the statements, even more so for them to be taken from the store.

What control do they have over them if handed over to the employee.

This definitely needs taking up with the area manager/HR.

Employers have a duty to their employees and this fly totally in the face of that.

Johnnythespider · Jun 7, 2016

Definitely should have been kept confidential, however I can't help thinking it might do this woman some good to see what her colleagues think of her attitude.

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Philosoraptor · Jun 7, 2016

Gross incompetence from Supervisor. Get advice from CAB and sue everyone concerned.

SkyblueBazza · Jun 7, 2016

Nick said:
Can't they just cut out the supervisor and go to the regional manager or something?

I think it's one where it needs to go directly to the HR director to take up the reigns on

...onwards & upwards PUSB

eastwoodsdustman · Jun 7, 2016

Looks like they're trying to get her to leave of her own accord by showing her what her work colleagues really think of her. Not great industrial relations though.

mrtrench · Jun 7, 2016

I don't know the details of the law - but I know the procedure. When you have a problem employee you meet in private with them; set them goals for the day/week; agree them; document them and then meet again in a day/week to review status and set the next week's goals. The last thing you do is engage in tittle-tattle and bring other employees into the situation - that's victimisation.

Covstu · Jun 7, 2016

I work in HR and yes they shouldn't have let her read these statements albeit she would be entitled to receive this as part of the disciplinary investigation report particularly if these statements were critical to the outcome ofnenproceedings. The names are usually redacted however.

I would hazard a guess that there are no written discussions about her performance previously?

Otis · Jun 7, 2016

It gets a little more complicated.

Turns out that this woman had a witness in to her disciplinary interview (another employee) and it was in that interview that the manager told the woman that she could see all the witness statements and take them home.

This witness (friends with my wife) told my wife that is what had what happened. Unfortunately she told my wife in confidence, so none of the other employees who gave statements are aware of this viewing of the statements.

My missus doesn't want to say anything because she was told in confidence and the witness was told in confidence in the disciplinary meeting.

Makes it a lot more difficult.

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eastwoodsdustman · Jun 7, 2016

I'd edit the workplace on your previous post mate. They've probably dug themselves into a hole anyhow but just be on the safe side.

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 7, 2016

eastwoodsdustman said:
I'd edit the workplace on your previous post mate. They've probably dug themselves into a hole anyhow but just be on the safe side.

I agree. As now I'm wondering where the Chinese Whispers start...

Nick · Jun 7, 2016

Just took the name out...

Otis · Jun 7, 2016

eastwoodsdustman said:
I'd edit the workplace on your previous post mate. They've probably dug themselves into a hole anyhow but just be on the safe side.

Someone has already kindly done it for me.

Otis · Jun 7, 2016

Thanks, Nick. Wondering what happened to it.

Now no-one needs to know it is Pennyworth Pharmaceuticals, of Cherry Tree Lane, Upper Ladbrokshire.

mrtrench · Jun 7, 2016

Otis said:
Thanks, Nick. Wondering what happened to it.

Now no-one needs to know it is Pennyworth Pharmaceuticals, of Cherry Tree Lane, Upper Ladbrokshire.

Fibber. The original was SISU.

Nick · Jun 7, 2016

mrtrench said:
Fibber. The original was SISU.

I did think about changing it to something funny but thought better of it as I think Otis has posted where he lives on here before so may have people protesting outside or something!

Philosoraptor · Jun 7, 2016

I imagine Otis living in something like the Council House. Only bigger....

armybike · Jun 7, 2016

Otis said:
It gets a little more complicated.

Turns out that this woman had a witness in to her disciplinary interview (another employee) and it was in that interview that the manager told the woman that she could see all the witness statements and take them home.

This witness (friends with my wife) told my wife that is what had what happened. Unfortunately she told my wife in confidence, so none of the other employees who gave statements are aware of this viewing of the statements.

My missus doesn't want to say anything because she was told in confidence and the witness was told in confidence in the disciplinary meeting.

Makes it a lot more difficult.

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I'd guess the manager is aware that people will be worried about whistle blowing and so all the rules and regs are being ignored.

Please, don't want to be in the position of been seen as a 'trouble causer' or 'telling tails' and poor managers play on this.

What's happened is wrong, so your wife should be able to report it freely but equally I fully understand why she wouldn't want to.

Does she know or get on with the area manager/HR?

Otis · Jun 7, 2016

armybike said:
I'd guess the manager is aware that people will be worried about whistle blowing and so all the rules and regs are being ignored.

Please, don't want to be in the position of been seen as a 'trouble causer' or 'telling tails' and poor managers play on this.

What's happened is wrong, so your wife should be able to report it freely but equally I fully understand why she wouldn't want to.

Does she know or get on with the area manager/HR?

Nope, doesn't know anyone. The HR of the 'pharmaceutical' company is in Nottingham.... err... I mean Reykjavik.

Otis · Jun 7, 2016

mrtrench said:
Fibber. The original was SISU.

Should have just covered myself and a said BHS.

Covstu · Jun 7, 2016

The process sounds flawed from the start bud, even if she is a wrong in looks like she will have them on process. Problem they have now is a potential constructive dismissal case if she has the service or a race discrimination case as she could make this look like she was singled out by the manager.

stupot07 · Jun 7, 2016

It doesn't sound right to me Otis, here's the ACAS guidance around disciplinary procedures which would be seen as good practice http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2174

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Otis · Jun 8, 2016

stupot07 said:
It doesn't sound right to me Otis, here's the ACAS guidance around disciplinary procedures which would be seen as good practice http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2174

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Cheers!

As soon as my wife told me I immediately said that is wrong and that they surely can't do that.

Weirdly, as a side note, this manager apparently has 'a thing' for Asian women.

stupot07 · Jun 8, 2016

Otis said:
Cheers!

As soon as my wife told me I immediately said that is wrong and that they surely can't do that.

Weirdly, as a side note, this manager apparently has 'a thing' for Asian women.

Thats not good, how can you manage performance and be impartial if you have a 'thing' for one of your employees?

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Deleted member 5849 · Jun 8, 2016

Does sound like we're descending into gossip now though

Otis · Jun 8, 2016

Deleted member 5849 said:
Does sound like we're descending into gossip now though

Well yeah, true.

I did say to my wife to keep it factual and not to state her own personal opinions. Facts are that this employee is always being told off, so I told her to stick to that and what she has seen and knows as fact.

Sounds like factually this employee should have been sacked a long time ago.

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