Are SISU bad owners? (1 Viewer)

Fergusons_Beard · Aug 28, 2019

CCFC being mentioned a lot in the press as having ‘bad’ owners (alongside Royston at Blackpool, Glaziers at Manure and obs at Bury/Bolton).

Are SISU bad owners? Negatives? Positives?

Budget wise we ‘seem’ to be on an even keel-despite owing tons to themselves. We seem to have a strategy of not overstretching.

Yes we’ve moved to St. A’s but most of us realise that this is not all SISU’s fault and most of us believe that the wasps Ricoh deal was only benefiting them.

Football side they seem to backing Robins and they have a manager who seems to be onboard with SISU strategy.

So with all the stuff in the past would we put them in the category of bad owners alongside Bury & Bolton.

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cc84cov · Aug 28, 2019

Dangerous topic...I’m staying well clear of this one

OffenhamSkyBlue · Aug 28, 2019

No - they are allowing the club to operate within its means. There is no guarantee that any of the clowns offering £7m for the club would not be a Steve Dale or Ken Anderson.

Magwitch · Aug 28, 2019

Good owners don’t remove their club, our club, away from its home city twice, and this time no clue as to when or if we return, as for blaming others this Ricoh issue hasn’t just occurred after returning from Northampton they have had 4 years to get a proper rental deal or build a ground.

CovBrummie94 · Aug 28, 2019

Yes

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BigadamL · Aug 28, 2019

My heart says yes they are bad, that’s because I want millions spent to get to the top!

My head says not that bad, they want the club to be self sufficient and what they are actually doing to the club is to prevent what is happening to Bury/Bolton and they are not taking prisoners in doing that. I didn’t agree with moving stadiums on both occasions but 1.2 millions is stupid money and the conditions this time was sill.

I am nowhere near a SISU lover but at least we have a club

clint van damme · Aug 28, 2019

Yes they are bad. But they aren't solely responsible for the shit we're in nor for the fact we are playing in Birmingham.

Sky Blue Pete · Aug 28, 2019

Magwitch said:
Good owners don’t remove their club, our club, away from its home city twice, and this time no clue as to when or if we return, as for blaming others this Ricoh issue hasn’t just occurred after returning from Northampton they have had 4 years to get a proper rental deal or build a ground.

Fair points and they need to explain the plan

Liquid Gold · Aug 28, 2019

Sisu's problem is that they never wanted to run a football club, they were sold an easy return by Ranson and after he threw his toys out of the plan after wasting his budget with Coleman they were left having to do something they never intended to - run the club directly. Their instinct was to treat it like any normal business and cut excess costs but that resulted in us plunging through the leagues.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Aug 28, 2019

I’ve defended their recent decisions but overall I’d say bad

PROS
1) we now run within our means
2) two trips to Wembley
3) New focus on academy
4) Broke the lease that hamstrung the club

CONS
1) played outside of Coventry twice
2) debt has increased
3) 2 relegations
4) hostile actions leading to no stadium being available in Coventry

Overall, the club itself is ran better, but in their actions started a chain reaction which led to the stadium being built for us sold to a London franchise rugby team.

Are they bad and unpopular owners, - yes - unfit - no.

shmmeee · Aug 28, 2019

They took us over in the Championship, wrote off most of our debt, had the option to purchase half of our own ground.

We are now in L1, £70m+ in debt, ground sharing. Oh and we’ve dropped around 10k fans.

BornSlippySkyBlue · Aug 28, 2019

My personal feeling is that it has been in SISU’s interest to keep CCFC a viable entity for the duration of their tenure, regardless of the manner in which that is achieved.

I keep thinking back to OSB’s suggestion that the whole thing could be an attempt to challenge EU law in order to profit from the outcome of that change (SISU or their investors and not CCFC profiting). Nothing else makes sense.

Which begs the question of what will happen after Oct 31 and how will that affect things. If the above is correct, and if we leave with no-deal (and EU law is no longer applicable) — what then?

Liquid Gold · Aug 28, 2019

Magwitch said:
Good owners don’t remove their club, our club, away from its home city twice, and this time no clue as to when or if we return, as for blaming others this Ricoh issue hasn’t just occurred after returning from Northampton they have had 4 years to get a proper rental deal or build a ground.

In your mind then good owners would have continued to pay a rental deal that was well on it's way to bankrupting us or signed an indemnity clause that would certainly have bankrupted the club?

Adge · Aug 28, 2019

Absolute cockroach’s of the highest order. To think that they give a stuff about the club is being very blinkered. The only interest is that they are apparently breaking even but we all know what the long game is-a hedge fund wantinga return on an investment by WHATEVER means.

shmmeee · Aug 28, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
In your mind then good owners would have continued to pay a rental deal that was well on it's way to bankrupting us or signed an indemnity clause that would certainly have bankrupted the club?

No.

Can we stop this ridiculous straw man please?

There were more option available than: pay whatever is asked or do what Sisu did.

The rent strike and court action was a gamble, one that so far hasn’t paid off. To pretend that if we hadn’t done it there was no other option is ridiculous.

It’s disingenuous shite like this that makes me think people aren’t serious in what they say.

Liquid Gold · Aug 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
No.

Can we stop this ridiculous straw man please?

There were more option available than: pay whatever is asked or do what Sisu did.

The rent strike and court action was a gamble, one that so far hasn’t paid off. To pretend that if we hadn’t done it there was no other option is ridiculous.

It’s disingenuous shite like this that makes me think people aren’t serious in what they say.

What other options than pay the rent or break the lease were there considering the council refused to renegotiate?

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Aug 28, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
What other options than pay the rent or break the lease were there considering the council refused to renegotiate?

They could have tried to play out rent negotiations in public. Put what we got originally out of the Ricoh in the open and say what we wanted.

They’d have got fan support if they communicated better

ccfctommy · Aug 28, 2019

Yes. There reign of 11 years has been a failure.

Terry_dactyl · Aug 28, 2019

I think they’re not worst we’ve had...
Whoever sold HR and started building a stadium they couldn’t afford should take that mantle...mcginty? Richardson?

Liquid Gold · Aug 28, 2019

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
They could have tried to play out rent negotiations in public. Put what we got originally out of the Ricoh in the open and say what we wanted.

They’d have got fan support if they communicated better

Completely agree, until recently their communication has been diabolical.

Sky Blue Pete · Aug 28, 2019

Adge said:
Absolute cockroach’s of the highest order. To think that they give a stuff about the club is being very blinkered. The only interest is that they are apparently breaking even but we all know what the long game is-a hedge fund wantinga return on an investment by WHATEVER means.

Why have they spent so much money Adge?

ccfc92 · Aug 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
They took us over in the Championship, wrote off most of our debt, had the option to purchase half of our own ground.

We are now in L1, £70m+ in debt, ground sharing. Oh and we’ve dropped around 10k fans.

Isn't the debt owed to SISU though?

I thought we were "relatively" debt free now.

Winny the Bish · Aug 28, 2019

We've played out of our home city twice FFS! Of course they're bad owners.

We spent roughly £3m on transfers in the 2008/09 season. Why was that money not used to put a bid together for the Ricoh?

hill83 · Aug 28, 2019

Not at all.
To some extent.
Very much so.
Don't know.

mark_ccfc · Aug 28, 2019

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I’ve defended their recent decisions but overall I’d say bad

PROS
1) we now run within our means
2) two trips to Wembley
3) New focus on academy
4) Broke the lease that hamstrung the club

CONS
1) played outside of Coventry twice
2) debt has increased
3) 2 relegations
4) hostile actions leading to no stadium being available in Coventry

Overall, the club itself is ran better, but in their actions started a chain reaction which led to the stadium being built for us sold to a London franchise rugby team.

Are they bad and unpopular owners, - yes - unfit - no.

Sums up what I was going to say nicely.

They should have drove a hard bargain, made some attempt to compromise with the council, bought the lease off ACL and Higgs and .
Wasps probably would have been our tenants by now, not the other way round.

Somerset Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

hill83 said:
Not at all.
To some extent.
Very much so.
Don't know.

Don't know.
...and if don't know wasn't an option?
Don't know.

Adge · Aug 28, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
Why have they spent so much money Adge?

They are playing the long game-that’s why.

Fergusons_Beard · Aug 28, 2019

shmmeee said:
No.

Can we stop this ridiculous straw man please?

There were more option available than: pay whatever is asked or do what Sisu did.

The rent strike and court action was a gamble, one that so far hasn’t paid off. To pretend that if we hadn’t done it there was no other option is ridiculous.

It’s disingenuous shite like this that makes me think people aren’t serious in what they say.

Shmeee what ‘more options were available’ in the Ricoh rent row?

What’s disingenuous is you completely ignore the underhand shit that was going on throughout the whole Ricoh tenure of CCFC.

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Senior Vick from Alicante · Aug 28, 2019

If they didn't play politics and did the right thing originally we would be firmly saying yes. Until the ground issues are sorted, even if the facts are finally proven to be right or wrong some fans will never forgive or forget.

Johnnythespider · Aug 28, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
What other options than pay the rent or break the lease were there considering the council refused to renegotiate?

It should also be said that sisu weren't the first owners they refused to negotiate with.

Johnnythespider · Aug 28, 2019

hill83 said:
Not at all.
To some extent.
Very much so.
Don't know.

All the bases

Johnnythespider · Aug 28, 2019

Senior Vick from Alicante said:
If they didn't play politics and did the right thing originally we would be firmly saying yes. Until the ground issues are sorted, even if the facts are finally proven to be right or wrong some fans will never forgive or forget.

You mean admit they were wrong

Skybluefaz · Aug 28, 2019

They've made some monumentally bad decisions, put some utter fuckwits in positions they should never have been in. At the moment though, things seem to be better.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 28, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
Sisu's problem is that they never wanted to run a football club, they were sold an easy return by Ranson and after he threw his toys out of the plan after wasting his budget with Coleman they were left having to do something they never intended to - run the club directly. Their instinct was to treat it like any normal business and cut excess costs but that resulted in us plunging through the leagues.

I agree - when they turned up it was with their usual MO of quick turnaround for a profit. They came in, bought a few players that they expected would get us promoted and they could sell high with the PL status we'd achieved (possibly using some to buy the stadium via the agreement which they could also flog for a profit). I was always a bit wary that it could've ended up in a Dale like situation were the stadium to be sold to a SISU holding company rather than the club but that is speculation on my part.

Didn't work, so they sold the players for a quick profit and were then surprised that we started to fail dismally on the pitch. At which they went into back-up MO - slash costs. Just made it worse. Took the fan base for granted and felt they could do anything they liked and we'd just hand money over like addicts needing their fix with Northampton. Kept on making noise about new stadiums etc

They have improved as owners over the last few years (Birmingham move aside which they have only a partial responsibility for unlike the first time) but they still need to be watched carefully. Their communication with the fans still leaves a lot to be desired and they're still getting paid management fees by the club and are due quite a bit of capital + interest via the master fund.

They're bad owners, but as has been shown in the past few days they could currently be worse.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

Fergusons_Beard said:
Shmeee what ‘more options were available’ in the Ricoh rent row?

What’s disingenuous is you completely ignore the underhand shit that was going on throughout the whole Ricoh tenure of CCFC.

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Yup, we know that ACL were looking at Wasps pre rent strike. We also know that SISU repeatedly turned down the chance to buy the Higgs' stake and that they pulled the club to Northampton in a move which brought Wasps here as owners. We are still 1 league below where they found us and with a vastly reduced fan base

Are SISU bad owners? (1 Viewer)

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