Are SISU bad owners? (8 Viewers)

Mr Panda · Aug 28, 2019

My mind is a complete mess on the conversation of whether SISU are bad owners or not.

They've made some horrendous mistakes in the past but they seem to learn from some of them. Speaking strictly from the football side of things they have facilitated an improvement in the football operation. We operate within our means and we seem to be doing well at it

Travs · Aug 28, 2019

In footballing terms I don't actually think too much can be levied at SISU in terms of specific blame. We were on a massive downward curve when they took over (think Stoke City in their present situation), and was anybody actually really surprised that we went down into the 3rd division? Considering all the other teams it happened to, I think it was inevitable we would go the same way. 4th division was certainly a bit of a step too far, but thankfully it co-incided with the beginning of what is hopefully our 'upward curve'.....

Off the pitch... well the arguments have been going for years, and one post from me isn't going to change anybody's opinions...

Hobo · Aug 28, 2019

Fergusons_Beard said:
CCFC being mentioned a lot in the press as having ‘bad’ owners (alongside Royston at Blackpool, Glaziers at Manure and obs at Bury/Bolton).

Are SISU bad owners? Negatives? Positives?

Budget wise we ‘seem’ to be on an even keel-despite owing tons to themselves. We seem to have a strategy of not overstretching.

Yes we’ve moved to St. A’s but most of us realise that this is not all SISU’s fault and most of us believe that the wasps Ricoh deal was only benefiting them.

Football side they seem to backing Robins and they have a manager who seems to be onboard with SISU strategy.

So with all the stuff in the past would we put them in the category of bad owners alongside Bury & Bolton.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes for one main reason, their lack of transparency around their real plans for the club.

Running the club to a budget and developing youth has improved and I support that side of things.

TTG · Aug 28, 2019

Compared to other owners who are "bad" you cant just slag the owners. It is not as simple case as its the owners fault, its council, sisu, wasps, and of course villa

Wyken Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

They have been worse in previous reigimes, however was that SISU or CCFC emploees?

For now I them them for running a tight ship living within our means and as long as SISU are here I cannot see us going under or increming an enormous amount of debt. If things continue the way they are at St Andrews and we have to cut back to save costs then we may get relegated once or twice but never go under.

We overspent to try and stay in the Premier League and we incremented £60m of debt whilst in the process of switching stadia. We have to be careful what we wish for...

Travs · Aug 28, 2019

Another minor point... there was massive talk when SISU took over, of needing "hard-nosed businessmen" who wouldn't bow to fan pressure to overspend, would get the club back on a sounder financial footing, etc, and it would be a rocky road etc...

It could well be argued that this is what SISU provided (not by any means saying I agree with some of the methods used)…. but then when SISU then indeed acted like "hard nosed businessmen" and refused to bow to fan pressure, massive sections of our support decided they didn't like it...

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 28, 2019

OffenhamSkyBlue said:
No - they are allowing the club to operate within its means. There is no guarantee that any of the clowns offering £7m for the club would not be a Steve Dale or Ken Anderson.

I agree about the sale but the club is not operating within it's means - there is still a loss annually being covered by the master fund (with interest attached)

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Aug 28, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I agree about the sale but the club is not operating within it's means - there is still a loss annually being covered by the master fund (with interest attached)

Maybe OSB can correct me, but isn’t the loss artificially created by “admin fees” and interest on the loan to the owners?

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

skyblue1991 said:
They have been worse in previous reigimes, however was that SISU or CCFC emploees?

For now I them them for running a tight ship living within our means and as long as SISU are here I cannot see us going under or increming an enormous amount of debt. If things continue the way they are at St Andrews and we have to cut back to save costs then we may get relegated once or twice but never go under.

We overspent to try and stay in the Premier League and we incremented £60m of debt whilst in the process of switching stadia. We have to be careful what we wish for...

We are in St Andrews thanks to them and we went to Northampton thanks to them. It's they who ultimately allowed Wasps to swoop in and permanently take the ground. They don't run anything at the club, simply entrust it to Fisher and Boddy and top up the losses so they can continue to pursue legal action. Ask yourself really what have they achieved in 12 years-2 relegations, the club moved out of Coventry twice, thousands of fans off the gates and a rugby team permanent owners of our former ground.

Mcbean · Aug 28, 2019

They have backed Robins with funds to take us through one promotion and close to the playoffs last season - they have also invested for this season to put us in the vicinity again -
yes they have had some clowns but all businesses have these who are good talkers but ultimately bad decision makers . They have been surrounded and let down by that bent crock of shit that is CCC - while there communication could be said to have been poor actually they have have continued to improve this probably with better people who have come along .
A hedge fund is there to make investors money but it does not come with pain - i am also unsure if we really are 70m in Debt i doubt it - paper exercise

pusbccfc · Aug 28, 2019

They were awful for many years let's not forget.

I do believe they, and Joy, have learnt lessons.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 28, 2019

Liquid Gold said:
What other options than pay the rent or break the lease were there considering the council refused to renegotiate?

Pay a reduced rent that the club felt was affordable and fair rather than total rent strike. Shows you're not trying to financial distress the organisation and creating 'bad blood' plus very much leaves it in the council/ACL's ballpark - do they then negotiate or take legal action to obtain the agreed fee. If they do the second then they seem like the bad guys, not you.

covcity4life · Aug 28, 2019

clint van damme said:
Yes they are bad. But they aren't solely responsible for the shit we're in nor for the fact we are playing in Birmingham.

bang on money

as for last few years they have run us well on pitch, thats not just cos of success but the selection of manager, the use of academy, and playing budget etc

long may it continue,but more importantly they need to get us back to cov asap

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 28, 2019

Sky Blue Pete said:
Why have they spent so much money Adge?

Because one of their other companies is loaning the club money with a decent interest rate on?

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 28, 2019

In answer to the title, yes.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

covcity4life said:
bang on money

as for last few years they have run us well on pitch, thats not just cos of success but the selection of manager, the use of academy, and playing budget etc

long may it continue,but more importantly they need to get us back to cov asap

SISU don't have any input into that.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Aug 28, 2019

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Maybe OSB can correct me, but isn’t the loss artificially created by “admin fees” and interest on the loan to the owners?

It's not artifical though - we may not be PAYING them right now but they are still PAYABLE (and the longer we don't pay them the more interest accrues owed by the club to SISU).

Wyken Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
We are in St Andrews thanks to them and we went to Northampton thanks to them. It's they who ultimately allowed Wasps to swoop in and permanently take the ground. They don't run anything at the club, simply entrust it to Fisher and Boddy and top up the losses so they can continue to pursue legal action. Ask yourself really what have they achieved in 12 years-2 relegations, the club moved out of Coventry twice, thousands of fans off the gates and a rugby team permanent owners of our former ground.

1. We are at St Andrews thanks to Wasps
2. Agree regarding Northampton. That should never have happened, however ask yourself; without it we would still be paying £1.2m a year rent to ACL. We would've been in a similar scenario to Bolton/Bury etc.. if we continued
3. Wasps swopped in becasue of CCC asking them to move to Coventry in March 2012. SISU and CCFC were still at the Ricoh at this point
4. Under Richardson we achieved one relgation, £60m of debt and sold Highfield Road. He is as much to blame as SISU

clint van damme · Aug 28, 2019

covcity4life said:
bang on money

as for last few years they have run us well on pitch, thats not just cos of success but the selection of manager, the use of academy, and playing budget etc

long may it continue,but more importantly they need to get us back to cov asap

just wish they'd knock this new ground nonsense on the head and admit the Ricoh is the only show in town as far as playing in Coventry is concerned. .

The amount of time people spend talking about potential sites is absolute madness. If you knocked down your shed tonight there'd be a an aerial shot of it with a stadium photoshopped on to the picture all over the forums by tomorrow morning.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 28, 2019

skyblue1991 said:
1. We are at St Andrews thanks to Wasps
2. Agree regarding Northampton. That should never have happened, however ask yourself; without it we would still be paying £1.2m a year rent to ACL. We would've been in a similar scenario to Bolton/Bury etc.. if we continued
3. Wasps swopped in becasue of CCC asking them to move to Coventry in March 2012. SISU and CCFC were still at the Ricoh at this point
4. Under Richardson we achieved one relgation, £60m of debt and sold Highfield Road. He is as much to blame as SISU

1. Whilst on the immediate level they have contributed. We are ultimately in St Andrews thanks to SISU continuing to pursue action against anybody and everybody, trying to tie them up. We are also in St Andrews owing to SISU failing to deliver on their promise of a new stadium for Coventry City Football Club, which was Plan A many years ago. This can also apply to point 3.

To paint them as hapless victims in all this is nonsensical, as nonsensical as suggesting they were pure evil against the bastions of truth and justice, as the narrative went earlier.

Their tenure has been nothing short of disastrous, seeing us slump to our lowest league position ever. This in isolation could have been acceptable if work had gone on behind the scenes to improve the club and its foundations. However, we've seen further diminishing of what few assets we had, and no sign in sight of any laying down of foundations in order to ensure growth of the club, as opposed to seeking a monetary return.

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

skyblue1991 said:
1. We are at St Andrews thanks to Wasps
2. Agree regarding Northampton. That should never have happened, however ask yourself; without it we would still be paying £1.2m a year rent to ACL. We would've been in a similar scenario to Bolton/Bury etc.. if we continued
3. Wasps swopped in becasue of CCC asking them to move to Coventry in March 2012. SISU and CCFC were still at the Ricoh at this point
4. Under Richardson we achieved one relgation, £60m of debt and sold Highfield Road. He is as much to blame as SISU

Wasps are here thanks to them. Fisher had agreed terms with ACL in 2013 but ultimately Sepalla pulled the plug on the negotiations and refused to allow them to sign. There would at least be some pathway back to ownership or the 50% stake that SISU refused to buy up when it was offered. Wasps came in because SISU opened the door. Now our only way back to Coventry is either by building a new ground from scratch or accepting harsh terms from the insects. It wouldn't have happened if we hadn't attempted to bust ACL.

cc84cov · Aug 28, 2019

I think 1 thing to remember is without them we would of been long gone.

Are they good owners ? Hard one to answer opinions will differ massively here Northampton broke that £1.2m crippling rent deal I didn’t attend any games there,St Andrews I’ve not missed a game yet we do need our own ground which they also know I sit & read certain comments with a view of ok were in brum but what’s the alternative pay over the odds rent that could finish the club ?.Robins has been backed £750k reported on Godden alone my struggle is what is their long term plan ? Promotion & sell get the Ricoh & sell ? I also think they could of had the ground or a share in the ground before but wanted it for peanuts or free which sways me into a negative view about them.Looking at Bolton & even more so Bury I’m glad we still have a club tbh & it shows just how bad it can get.

mr_monkey · Aug 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Wasps are here thanks to them. Fisher had agreed terms with ACL in 2013 but ultimately Sepalla pulled the plug on the negotiations and refused to allow them to sign. There would at least be some pathway back to ownership or the 50% stake that SISU refused to buy up when it was offered. Wasps came in because SISU opened the door. Now our only way back to Coventry is either by building a new ground from scratch or accepting harsh terms from the insects. It wouldn't have happened if we hadn't attempted to bust ACL.

But as those leaked emailed showed, neither the council or ACL had any intention to sell half of the Ricoh to sisu

I think Sisu's ownership can be split into two, everything up to the last two or so years was appalling (including the forced move to Northampton which only they are to blame for) the last two years have been infinitely better and moving to blues is solely on the doorstep of wasps as the club could never ever sign up to the indemnity clause they wanted as if we did we would end up like bury

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

mr_monkey said:
But as those leaked emailed showed, neither the council or ACL had any intention to sell half of the Ricoh to sisu

I'm talking about in 2008

mr_monkey · Aug 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I'm talking about in 2008

You said 2013 in your post.....

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

cc84cov said:
I think 1 thing to remember is without them we would of been long gone.

Are they good owners ? Hard one to answer opinions will differ massively here Northampton broke that £1.2m crippling rent deal I didn’t attend any games there,St Andrews I’ve not missed a game yet we do need our own ground which they also know I sit & read certain comments with a view of ok were in brum but what’s the alternative pay over the odds rent that could finish the club ?.Robins has been backed £750k reported on Godden alone my struggle is what is their long term plan ? Promotion & sell get the Ricoh & sell ? I also think they could of had the ground or a share in the ground before but wanted it for peanuts or free which sways me into a negative view about them.Looking at Bolton & even more so Bury I’m glad we still have a club tbh & it shows just how bad it can get.

Why do people not realise that it isn't SISU 'bankrolling' Robins but instead recycling of money from player sales?

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

mr_monkey said:
You said 2013 in your post.....

In reference to revised terms on the rental agreement, not the 50% stake

Travs · Aug 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
We are in St Andrews thanks to them and we went to Northampton thanks to them. It's they who ultimately allowed Wasps to swoop in and permanently take the ground. They don't run anything at the club, simply entrust it to Fisher and Boddy and top up the losses so they can continue to pursue legal action. Ask yourself really what have they achieved in 12 years-2 relegations, the club moved out of Coventry twice, thousands of fans off the gates and a rugby team permanent owners of our former ground.

If SISU carry the can for the issues at CCFC, both on and off the pitch (quite rightly)… whether or not there are other factors.

Then the owners of the Ricoh (council) carry the can for the sale/lease of the stadium to another party…. whether or not there are other factors.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Aug 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Why do people not realise that it isn't SISU 'bankrolling' Robins but instead recycling of money from player sales?

Depends who you talk to... SISU are spending the transfer money on legal fees. The money has to be coming from somewhere

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Depends who you talk to... SISU are spending the transfer money on legal fees. The money has to be coming from somewhere

SISU have a portfolio of businesses going beyond just CCFC. If they were just relying on us for profit they'd be fucked

cc84cov · Aug 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Why do people not realise that it isn't SISU 'bankrolling' Robins but instead recycling of money from player sales?

But they could of kept that & not spent the £750k

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Aug 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
SISU have a portfolio of businesses going beyond just CCFC. If they were just relying on us for profit they'd be fucked

I was being sarcastic - like you said the transfer fees are being recycled. It’s a good way of working

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

cc84cov said:
But they could of kept that & not spent the £750k

They aren't running the club at that level it's been in Fisher's remit for years

mr_monkey · Aug 28, 2019

Brighton Sky Blue said:
In reference to revised terms on the rental agreement, not the 50% stake

Fair enough, I miss read that bit then

I don't think there has been any evidence that we were offered half the Ricoh (again happy to be corrected) but as I said before I really do think you can split their tenure into two periods, first one they were terrible terrible owners, second one much better and at least we still have a club

Brighton Sky Blue · Aug 28, 2019

Travs said:
If SISU carry the can for the issues at CCFC, both on and off the pitch (quite rightly)… whether or not there are other factors.

Then the owners of the Ricoh (council) carry the can for the sale/lease of the stadium to another party…. whether or not there are other factors.

Of course the council don't escape blame for how the Wasps sale was orchestrated. But they were given the chance and the excuse to do so by our self-imposed exile and Joy's refusal to allow the club to sign revised terms. It was a gamble that has permanently cost us the ground.

Are SISU bad owners? (8 Viewers)

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