Are We Simply Too Nice? Certainly No Crazy Gang! (2 Viewers)

ashbyjan · Oct 4, 2011

As a team are we too nice? Do we have a reputation for being soft and easy pushovers? Under AB we started to get a reputation as a bit of a bullying side and teams didn't want to play us - now what have they to fear? Bell? McSheffery? Baker? Clingan? Some children? Even our central defenders are not exactly fearsome or dominant. We lack grit - we lack fight - we lack aggression - we lack that horrid, nuggity, nasty player we haven't had for a long time. Speedie, Wise even to some extent Doyle - the sort of player who when he plays for you is competitive and combatitive when he plays against you he's a dirty sod.

We are always very polite to referees, never seem to object to decisions, never put pressure on them like Norwich and many others have done. I don't want us diving to get decisions aka Grant Holt but some fight and aggression wouldn't go amiss.

I was hoping Thorn could instil some form of siege mentality or Crazy Gang spirit that could make the collective greater than the sum of the parts but we lack that inspirational figure on the park - the Fash, the Wise, the Jones.

If we get one player in on loan (scans sky for any flying porcine-like entities) then it has to be someone who can inspire those around them not just some kid from Manures youth team.

We'll_live_and_die · Oct 4, 2011

Deegan would be the man your looking for.

ashbyjan · Oct 4, 2011

I keep hearing this "pitbull" description of Deegan but have yet to actually see it - he seems a decent enough box to box player but have yet to see the nasty side that he is supposed to have. Hope you're right Rich and he is that missing x-factor and that he can stay fit long enough to make a difference.

We'll_live_and_die · Oct 4, 2011

ashbyjan said:
I keep hearing this "pitbull" description of Deegan but have yet to actually see it - he seems a decent enough box to box player but have yet to see the nasty side that he is supposed to have. Hope you're right Rich and he is that missing x-factor and that he can stay fit long enough to make a difference.

Trouble is you haven't seem him play as he has been sidelined for so long. Heres hoping he is a rock had bastard that likes to kick people up in the air. Cause we need someone like that.

Macca · Oct 4, 2011

Sadly I think those days have gone (more to the pity).

Don't think there is any merit in becoming a team of cloggers as football has become a virtual non contact sport.

The crazy gang wouldn't finish with any players on the park these days

Otis · Oct 4, 2011

Indeed. Think now you get booked for showing the linesman your studs before coming on as a substitute.

Macca · Oct 4, 2011

too right, studs up, straight red

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 4, 2011

Yea none of the players even seem to even break a sweat when playing at the moment.

stupot07 · Oct 4, 2011

I completely agree - there are too many fairies in our side. Too many people scared of making a tackle or getting in someone's face. We've lost a lot of out more physical players (regardless of who often they played last season) - Doyle, Turner, Carsley, Osbourne, King, Gunnarsson. The one of the main things Thomas has brought to the team over Bigi, is he'll make a tackle or 3. I imagine that an opposition's midfielder rub their hands with glee playing against Bell, Baker, McSheffery, and Clingan, not much physicality is there? Yes even Clingan doesn't make many tackles - he reads the game and plays on the interception.

Otis · Oct 4, 2011

When you analyse it, it doesn't look good does it.

McSheff - can't tackle

Bell - can't tackle

Clingan - hardly ever tackles

Baker - can tackle but usually goes flying in and has been sent off on a few occasions, so basically his tackling is not good at all.

Hussey - doesn't usually tackle at all for some strange reason. Usually just tries to hold a player

wingy · Oct 4, 2011

THEY will all need to tackle harder where we are going ,if they're still here

cloughie · Oct 4, 2011

Hussey Tackle? he doesn't have time he' to busy ball watching.............If he ball watch's any more they should start charging him to come in

skyblueinBaku · Oct 4, 2011

Mad Jim McPake is needed. If he sets the tone, maybe others will follow.

Nick · Oct 4, 2011

We do miss Doyler right now.

Every team needs that nasty player, that is what Robbie Savage made his millions doing and I have to say he did it well!

when Deegan first signed he put a few cracking tackles in, I hope he brings them back!

torchomatic · Oct 4, 2011

I can't quite believe I'm writing this but I agree. Oh Mr Doyle, I was blinded to your attributes. Please forgive me.

Nick said:
We do miss Doyler right now.

Every team needs that nasty player, that is what Robbie Savage made his millions doing and I have to say he did it well!

when Deegan first signed he put a few cracking tackles in, I hope he brings them back!

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 4, 2011

Deegan can tackle but he's more of a passing midfielder than a ball-winner.

The OP is essentially talking about a rough, direct, uncultured side (AB) and a passing, progressive, (in theory) cultured side (AT). Frankly, I can't believe you are even asking the question! Just to clarify, the AB approach was doomed to relegation last season, the AT approach was fantastic to watch and about 5 times more productive.

The difference is we don't have a pressing midfielder in the Doyle/Carsley/Aron mould-Thomas shows signs of getting there, though.

When the AB approach worked, it was by having the best big and strong CB in the division at the time. I doubt it would have worked with the present players, and it certainly diodn't work without Turner and Carsley anyway.

As far as fighting our corner with officials goes, try watching Keogh-he's never out of the officials ear, and likes to give crap lines-people hell in particular.

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Oct 4, 2011

Nonleagueherewecome said:
The OP is essentially talking about a rough, direct, uncultured side (AB) and a passing, progressive, (in theory) cultured side (AT). Frankly, I can't believe you are even asking the question! Just to clarify, the AB approach was doomed to relegation last season, the AT approach was fantastic to watch and about 5 times more productive.

I don't agree that this is what the OP is referring to, all the best sides have a tough approach where they can dig there feet in and win through determination and work effort this doesn't make them an uncultured side. Man UTD have players like Park, Fletcher, Vidic, Chelsea have Essien, Mikel, Terry, Man City have De jong, Barry, Hargreaves. Even Barcelona have it with slightly "dirty" tactics in feigning injury and Barcelona off the ball are one of the most hard working sides I have seen, they don't go in hard but there pressing is second to none all the way from the full backs to Messi and Mourinho won a champions league with that approach. In the lower leagues last season QPR won the league, even though all the praise went to Taarabt players like Derry were important to the team as well.

At the moment we don't have any tough tacklers playing neither do we press high up the pitch, we sort of just back off and wait for the opposition to make a mistake.

johnwillomagic · Oct 4, 2011

Hmm I think people are getting sidelined by our pretty but ineffective posession football which goes sideways or backwards butlacks tempo and due to this is pretty ineffective.

Normally see eye to eye with non-league but not on his last post......let's break it down

Passing - yes I Conceed we pass the ball more under AT but more for show than actual effect and far too slow to bother most sides

Progressive - Disagree we are currently neat and tidy under AT but pedestrian under AB method far more progressive territorially and in opponents danger area with far more regularity!

Cultured - not really not skillful or quick enough to be cultured...more a nice team to currently play against!

Five times more productive - This is the worst comment of the lot.......how many points did we have under AB at this stage! How many shots more on target and off target, how many more goals!! Our super productive passing style led to us having 35% of ball posession and two shots on target all game in our last game!!! :thinking about:

I am not saying ab approach was fantastic to watch but it was certainly damn more effective comparing like to like! Main problem is that neither method seems to have the ability to adapt. Ideally I think we need a cross and a halfway house between two approaches ideally. In our current predicament would like to see us win ugly and go more direct against Forest. Currently fragile at the back and won't like it up em Mr Mannering!

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 5, 2011

I think I am pretty comfortable ground when I say AB's tactics were ineffective! End of last season proves that. Or would people welcome him back? In which case, I've woken up in the lunatic asylum again, haven't I...yet again I'm the only one who has these delerious visions where I remember this team in Sky Blue aimlessly lumping it forwards as soon as they receive it, only for it to return immediately with a monotonous regularity that you could set your watch by..I remember not only not winning, but but not even attempting to play football..yeah, really effective that was! Why did we sack him again?!?

As for "Man UTD have players like Park, Fletcher, Vidic, Chelsea have Essien, Mikel, Terry, Man City have De jong, Barry, Hargreaves"-to choose a type of player with such qualities, you need money. "Determination and workrate" are things I still see plenty of, and we were getting into the opposition much harder under AT last season than AB. That's because under King Klogger, the players didn't want to know. Under AT they do try-just we lack the types of players that we just can't simply go out and buy (bar McPake, who is injured).

Back to the original OP though-I maybe missed the point in terms of you not just talking about AB. It's just if you go for a side of tough, hard players it tends to be that they can't play passing football as well. Bell versus Doyle, if you will. We know which AB picked, and we know who AT would choose, so that's why I instantly link the "tough guy" team to the AB team.

ashbyjan · Oct 5, 2011

Non League - I definitely do not want us to return to the long ball shit that AB served up - what I was referring to was currently our team is small and too easily bullied off the ball - how many 50:50 balls are Bell, Clingan, Bigi, Sheff etc going to win? Almost every decent side has a hard tackiling ball winner - as someone said look at QPR who had Adel Taarabt backed up by Shaun Derry, even Barcelona have Puzguets, Manure had Keane now Fletcher etc etc. On top of this taking the Barcelona analogy further they not only hunt the ball down in packs but in Puyol, Mascherrano and Pique have players who can dish it out as well. Every side needs some steel in it - we have tin foil at best.

wingy · Oct 5, 2011

Could the squad size have anything to do our pussy attitude on the pitch,going in hard can lead to injuriess, are they under instruction or subconciously preserving themselves

Disorganised1 · Oct 5, 2011

Or could it be we've lost our three most aggressive players ? Turner, Gunner, and King.

Nonleagueherewecome · Oct 5, 2011

Disorganised1 said:
Or could it be we've lost our three most aggressive players ? Turner, Gunner, and King.

Why, don't be so naive! Haven't you heard the latest word? We've decided it's all our crap managers fault now! :thinking about:

Astute · Oct 5, 2011

Nonleagueherewecome said:
I think I am pretty comfortable ground when I say AB's tactics were ineffective! End of last season proves that. Or would people welcome him back? In which case, I've woken up in the lunatic asylum again, haven't I...yet again I'm the only one who has these delerious visions where I remember this team in Sky Blue aimlessly lumping it forwards as soon as they receive it, only for it to return immediately with a monotonous regularity that you could set your watch by..I remember not only not winning, but but not even attempting to play football..yeah, really effective that was! Why did we sack him again?!?

I am not sure about on here, but there were a lot of fans saying they were more interested in playing a better style of game than winning games after suffering the AB tactics. We would have done better when he was manager playing 6 in defence and 4 up front as we never passed the ball into midfield.

TommyAtkins · Oct 9, 2011

ashbyjan said:
As a team are we too nice? Do we have a reputation for being soft and easy pushovers? Under AB we started to get a reputation as a bit of a bullying side and teams didn't want to play us - now what have they to fear? Bell? McSheffery? Baker? Clingan? Some children? Even our central defenders are not exactly fearsome or dominant. We lack grit - we lack fight - we lack aggression - we lack that horrid, nuggity, nasty player we haven't had for a long time. Speedie, Wise even to some extent Doyle - the sort of player who when he plays for you is competitive and combatitive when he plays against you he's a dirty sod.

We are always very polite to referees, never seem to object to decisions, never put pressure on them like Norwich and many others have done. I don't want us diving to get decisions aka Grant Holt but some fight and aggression wouldn't go amiss.

I was hoping Thorn could instil some form of siege mentality or Crazy Gang spirit that could make the collective greater than the sum of the parts but we lack that inspirational figure on the park - the Fash, the Wise, the Jones.

If we get one player in on loan (scans sky for any flying porcine-like entities) then it has to be someone who can inspire those around them not just some kid from Manures youth team.

Certainly true, good point

We play nice, neat football but don't really have an aggressive component.

One would hope that Deegan brings that to the squad. For a couple of games anyway before he is injured.

We lack a competitive edge.

Are We Simply Too Nice? Certainly No Crazy Gang! (2 Viewers)

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