ATs got his badges (9 Viewers)

LeamingtonBootBoy said:

Must have missed that KD...and went to most games home and away last season.....:facepalm:

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I missed it as well but people on here clearly know their football better than me. I know a lot of fans from other clubs and show them the stuff that's written on here and they just crack up. When opposition fans and managers praise you're team after stuffing them I wonder what they are really saying?

LeamingtonBootBoy said:

Regardless of the backing could ANYONE have won more than 9 games from 48 last season with the players he had...if so, then what is still doing here???

He's got 10 games in my view next season....I can see him taking him down again and feeding us the same bollocks again next April.

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I think the question should be could anyone who we could afford and would want to manage this mess of a club have won more than 9 games.

I don't think Thorn has done a great job but unless we had am exceptional manager in charge, I don't think we could have expected much more from last season.

Andy Thorn achieved last season what any average or inexperienced manager would have achieved, blame SISU for not employing a good experienced manager and giving us a competitive playing squad.

I don't blame Thorn for our relegation as to expect more from an inexperienced manager with the playing squad he had was unrealistic.

How long will it be before the posters on this thread start moaning that we are still under an embargo and have still not signed any players?

We don't need any players. I can read what you are all saying. It was the fault of AT. An experienced manager would have saved us :thinking about: We should have had one of the ex England managers after they got the sack from other Championship sides. Or were they not experienced enough for you?

It's easy to argue against points you completely make up, isn't it?

No, the earth isn't flat, I can see that's where you were headed. Man, you're silly.

ajsccfc said:

It's easy to argue against points you completely make up, isn't it?

No, the earth isn't flat, I can see that's where you were headed. Man, you're silly.

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Sorry intelligent one.

We ended up not even being able to put out 11 fit players. Until the Brizzle game we had hope. Our small squad had got into a position of having a decent chance of staying up. Brizzle changed 6 out of 10 outfield players. They still had players on their bench that would have walked into our team. Still nothing to do with us going down. One of our main strikers could only play 1 game a week. He has averaged 1 goal every 6 games at a lower level than we were at. AT's fault again? Our 1st team was lost at the start or just after the start of the season and had to be replaced by academy lads as we only brought in 2 GK's and a striker. Yes, again the fault of AT. We needed loans to come in and fill gaps in our squad and 1st team. They never came until we were in the shite. The fault of AT again?

I must admit I am silly to think there were major problems that AT couldn't sort out that an experienced manager could have sorted out. An experienced manager could have got injured players playing better. He would have made our academy lads be more experienced than they were. Platt would have been able to play every game. Fatwood would have played well and given effort for the first time since he left his first club.

Nobody has ever said AT never made mistakes, but it is said so many times that this is not true. Any manager whoever we would have had would have struggled just as much. At least we competed throuout the season. If heads would have gone down we would have got beaten by more goals all season. You seem to need someone to blame. Waste of time blaming SISU as you can't see them. They won't listen.

Fook it, lets bring Sven in. How about McClaren? They would have saved us. Wouldn't they? :thinking about:

Again, you're arguing against points nobody is making. I can't see people saying Andy Thorn should have the power to heal the sick or be able to fund signings himself, can you point these out?

Where he is at fault are the several occasions where we surrendered leads due to other sides adapting their game while we watched it happen with no apparent plan B. Considering this invariably happened with the players who'd earned the lead and therefore wasn't affected by the injury list or money available, can Thorn not be held partly accountable? Like everyone at the club ought to be? How long does the free ride last otherwise?

ajsccfc said:

Again, you're arguing against points nobody is making. I can't see people saying Andy Thorn should have the power to heal the sick or be able to fund signings himself, can you point these out?

Where he is at fault are the several occasions where we surrendered leads due to other sides adapting their game while we watched it happen with no apparent plan B. Considering this invariably happened with the players who'd earned the lead and therefore wasn't affected by the injury list or money available, can Thorn not be held partly accountable? Like everyone at the club ought to be? How long does the free ride last otherwise?

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Plan B? I suppose we had the players to change tactics during games now. Wingers sitting on the bench. Attacking midfielders sitting on the bench. A spare striker sitting on the bench. Yes AT made mistakes. Some of these were tactics. Would another manager not have made mistakes? The better the players the more mistakes that can be covered.

What would you prefer to happen right now? Another manager or the players that are needed to come in?

ajsccfc said:

Considering this invariably happened with the players who'd earned the lead and therefore wasn't affected by the injury list or money available, can Thorn not be held partly accountable? Like everyone at the club ought to be? How long does the free ride last otherwise?

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So the other teams that changed their tactics against us did it without using subs?

You call me silly? :claping hands:

People don't seem to realise the club is in between a rock & a hard place.

Experienced 'name' managers cost money & require a budget.

Up and coming managers with a bit of a track record from lower league side is all that this club can hope for.

If Thorn can't manage the circumstances he is faced with next year I guess he'll be replaced and he should be if he doesn't deliver, Football management is about getting results.
Meantime, the situation is he will be getting a chance next year, one hopes he will get a decent budget for the league, per the Joy Sep. quotes about 'bounce back budgets'.
If the spoken of budget does not materialse, then the best way forward is to CHANGE THE OWNERS. In short reserve your bile for those that are truly responsible for the relegation.

Astute said:

So the other teams that changed their tactics against us did it without using subs?

You call me silly?

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You can certainly change the way a team can play without having to make repeated substitutions, yes. Or at least an experienced and/or talented manager should. Admonishing him of all blame because we didn't have a huge squad is just as fruitless as blaming him for everything despite us not having a huge squad.

Unlike a lot of the brainiacs here I don't see it as black or white where one party is innocent of all blame and another should have all the guilt. For instance this part of your post is pretty much in line with my entire viewpoint:

Astute said:

Yes AT made mistakes. Some of these were tactics. Would another manager not have made mistakes?

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I'm not saying Thorn is THE reason we failed, just as it'd be pure guesswork to say that new manager A N Other would definitely have succeeded.

It's just that he should be questioned and attributed responsibility, as everyone should. If any manager is considered free from culpability, their role is rendered irrelevant.

Astute said:

What would you prefer to happen right now? Another manager or the players that are needed to come in?

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Players, all day long. As I think Thorn can do better, I'd rather him have the chance to and replace several bodies rather than just one.

Astute said:

So the other teams that changed their tactics against us didn't do it without using subs?

You call me silly? :claping hands:

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Strangely you beat me to it. I knew that the bench issue would be mnext. The principal reasons we were relegated we're the pathetic points total in the first half of the season and the unacceptable away form all season.

To say no one could do better is also absurd. How do you know? As he had zero experience before you must be saying experience counts for nothing so logically what your saying is we should not have a manager.

I fail to see the relevance of ex England managers. The profile needed was someone who could work within real financial constraints and get results. Also someone who wouldn't spend the only money he had on a player so lacking in match fitness that he didn't even start his season until march.

It's nothing to do with our financial plight it's to do with his ability as a manager. He's not good enough and there is no statistic you can quote to prove otherwise, is there?

ajsccfc said:

Players, all day long. As I think Thorn can do better, I'd rather him have the chance to and replace several bodies rather than just one.

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I fully agree with you here. Give him the tools to do his job and he will do it better. It is easy to say another manager would have done better. Some will have done better. Some will have done worse. Some will have done about the same. So Sven or McClaren would not have been any good you say. Try saying who for once then. And someone that would come to us knowing how bad things are at our club.

Our major problem is the way SISU are ruining our club. We need change from top to bottom. Changing just one cog won't suddenly take all of our problems away.

Thing is here AT got 2 goalkeepers in and got rid of 1 so surely that was a waste of money there that could have gone on someone else, AT is as much to blame as the rest of the people at the club who have a say in what happens.

He knew the score when he took the job on so he knew what he was up against so I have no sympathy for the man, he is paid to do one thing get results which he didn't do for nearly all of the season.
However towards the end when it was virtually nailed on we were going down the team suddenly start performing, Cody start's playing gets some vital goals, I doubt he was injured for all that time he was out, I just think in my opinion that AT is pig headed and if someone doesn't tow his line and disagrees with him for whatever reason he freezes them out of the squad until he has no choice but to play him.

kduffy said:

I fail to see the relevance of ex England managers.

It's nothing to do with our financial plight it's to do with his ability as a manager. He's not good enough and there is no statistic you can quote to prove otherwise, is there?

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You fail to see any relevance, but also fail to say who we should have instead.


So who and how experienced then if ex england managers are not good enough? What statistic can you come out with to prove AT couldn't do the job properly with a decent sized squad? Remember when AT first took over from AB. A squad that was on a very bad run. We only lost 2 in 10 games under AT to stay up. The same squad that AB was taking us down with. AB being another experienced manager by the way.

We then all know what happened next. I suppose AB would have done a better job than AT after losing all the players that were doing crap for him.

No he lost 2 keepers ICAN - Westwood and Quirke, and we'd already had Colin Doyle and Ian Turner on loan that season as we didnt have a proper number 2, and i believe Burge was also on the bench a number of times. Getting two keepers in wasn't a waste of money, both were on free's although dunn would have coat us some compensation. The mistake was giving Ireland another years contract.

ICHAN said:

Thing is here AT got 2 goalkeepers in and got rid of 1 so surely that was a waste of money there that could have gone on someone else, AT is as much to blame as the rest of the people at the club who have a say in what happens.

He knew the score when he took the job on so he knew what he was up against so I have no sympathy for the man, he is paid to do one thing get results which he didn't do for nearly all of the season.
However towards the end when it was virtually nailed on we were going down the team suddenly start performing, Cody start's playing gets some vital goals, I doubt he was injured for all that time he was out, I just think in my opinion that AT is pig headed and if someone doesn't tow his line and disagrees with him for whatever reason he freezes them out of the squad until he has no choice but to play him.

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He knew he needed a Keeper as Westwood went for free. AT didn't get rid of him as you say. You love to use words to your effects don't you? Out of contract and yet another player that wouldn't sign a new one because of the way SISU are ruining our club. Cheap backup for the other one. We could debate this all day. But as you said AT got rid of him it would be a waste of time.

Now you say he knew that SISU were going to decimate the squad and not allow him to replace the players when he took the job on :thinking about:

Started to get results when it looked all over? Try the results got better once he was allowed to bring in a couple of loans that connected midfield to attack....you know the type of players we no longer had.

Pig headed and only played players when he had to? Now I know you are on a windup. I suppose we had spare players now. I suppose you have forgotten Cody was injured and then not match fit. Then we had Platt and Juke.....until SISU did him in again and sold Juke. Then he had no choice but to put him in the team whilst unfit. At least it gave him the chance to get fit quickly.

Peter Reids looking for a f**king job ,he'd get us out of the 3rd div.

diggerdaley said:

Peter Reids looking for a f**king job ,he'd get us out of the 3rd div.

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Well he is another experienced manager looking for a job

Astute said:

Well he is another experienced manager looking for a job

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And if we want relegation again no need to change. Thorn will get us out of the division no problem.

Wasn't on about Westwood Astute.
He knew they were liers like the rest of us know they are, or is AT immune from that as well, come Astute lets be honest here, if he didn't know what SISU are about and we as fans who are not on the inside so to speak know what they are all about then more fool him if he honestly beleived that they wouldn't do what they did.

Its like the norwood story, we all know its a load of bull and is only trying to appeaise the fans, like we know players are going to be sold with little coming in, if as he said something to the words if they don't help by getting players in i'm off, then all this won't matter because he'll be gone soon on his own accord.

ICHAN said:

Wasn't on about Westwood Astute.
He knew they were liers like the rest of us know they are, or is AT immune from that as well, come Astute lets be honest here, if he didn't know what SISU are about and we as fans who are not on the inside so to speak know what they are all about then more fool him if he honestly beleived that they wouldn't do what they did.

Its like the norwood story, we all know its a load of bull and is only trying to appeaise the fans, like we know players are going to be sold with little coming in, if as he said something to the words if they don't help by getting players in i'm off, then all this won't matter because he'll be gone soon on his own accord.

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I agree the words SISU and truth don't go together, but are you saying you knew they were going to get rid of nearly our whole first team last season and not replace them? Until then they had let managers bring at least some of the players in they wanted. This changed after AT became manager. He would not have had a clue what they were about to do. Same as we didn't. We knew they were cost cutting, but not getting rid of as many costs as they could. They were even still talking about keeping King who was on 10k a week, but strangely enough never got around to giving him a contract to sign. They released it into the press he was about to sign again, alerting other clubs he was not under contract. Was this done on purpose? We will never know.

Yes but he knows for next season? He said his biggest mistake last season was to believe sisu! This season he said he has promised...

He wouldnt fall for it twice surely?

This topic can and likely will go on for ever and ever.
I point my finger mainly at Harrison, who works with the players much more than Thorn. he's been here far to long and seems un-interested and lethargic during games, Is this the way he's on the training pitch working with the lads i wonder.

People who say "let see Thorns abilities when he has the players he wants to bring in" will fall back on this remark for ever, If for example he brings in a few that don't work out ,they will then turn round and say " well he needed better players than the ones he could afford " which is absolutely obvious to anyone but this remark will still be used, and it will go on and on.

I believe with the squad he had left he should of done better than he did. I believe he has poor man mangement skills and the public critisicms of some of the younger lads especially, was badly thought out, he needs to improve this area a lot and should never critisicise them publicly again, and instead praise them as much as he can at every opportunity, building there confidence and belief in there leader.

The team we have now is good enough to do well next year, and hopefully if he has learnt from his tactical cock-ups from last season and with a few free transfer additions, we may be top ten or just off play-offs, but we all know that if we lose Keogh and Cranie and whoever else then we are up shit street.

We desperately need a leader on and off the pitch,infact its imperative and if we can keep Keogh, he will fill the leader role on it perfectly. We sorely missed having someone setting the example of what is expected during matches last season, Keogh gives everything and thats the minimum requirement for the rest, he can direct from the back encourage them and get the youngsters playing with confidence and getting them to work as a team instead of individuals. He is a must keep for next season, and the youngsters will look up and fight for him.

Sack Harrison and promote Carsley to do the work with the lads on the training pitch, and i feel we should see the improvement needed to get a play off push.

The Rev

Utterly convinced that sisu and thorn will oversee another relegation so with expectations that low anything else willl be a bonus

Macca said:

Utterly convinced that sisu and thorn will oversee another relegation so with expectations that low anything else willl be a bonus

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But the football will be great.:thinking about:

Hmm might get a st on the halfway line to admire it

Macca said:

Hmm might get a st on the halfway line to admire it

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Id get one at the edge of our penalty area. That's where we normally enjoy our passing game especially when we are losing. Sit back and admire the tactical genius at work.

@Rev, if he can't do it next season, whatever the budget he has to go, message ends.

Jack Griffin said:

@Rev, if he can't do it next season, whatever the budget he has to go, message ends.

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He won't go anywhere. He loves sisu, sisu love him, the gullible fans also love him. Work that equation out.

I don't & that assumption is nonsense. I think TBH he wants to be frank and slag them off royally but can't as he loses his job.

Resigning on principle isn't in favour these days, but in my cynical world view it never really was, the payoff in monetary or influence terms being something the media never expose.

Jack Griffin said:

I don't & that assumption is nonsense. I think TBH he wants to be frank and slag them off royally but can't as he loses his job.

Resigning on principle isn't in favour these days, but in my cynical world view it never really was, the payoff in monetary or influence terms being something the media never expose.

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You are a gullible fan in the equation then. Fair enough but that is what you are.

kduffy said:

You are a gullible fan in the equation then. Fair enough but that is what you are.

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You shouldn't have had that 3rd beer. LOL