Back to being the biggest club in Coventry? (4 Viewers)

italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

Nick said:
I thought you could prove it and said the evidence is there if you look for it when you were trying to be patronising?

The same as the jr proves sisu wanted the ricoh for free.

That was the attempt by Sisu to get the Ricoh for 'nothing'. The JR gives details that show that they wanted to buy the £14M loan for £2M. I'm interpreting that as wanting something for nothing.

The £2M interest has not been explained in detail because the breakdown is missing and so I'm saying its excessive and can be be regarded as management fees in an underhanded way. In other words it's coming off CCFC top line and putting debt back into the club.

Can't understand why people are so defensive of Sisu.

italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

CCFC said:
Why do you wish that he was here? He would just ignore him and continue spouting his shit. There is no reasoning with him.

Why are you so defensive when people challenge Sisu figures ?
Explain what the £2M interest is for and why it is so excessive?
What size loan could be financed by a £2M interest payment say at 5%?
My calculation is £40M+ so where has that debt come from in the few years since administration?

Just asking for an explanation and will back down if I'm wrong.

chiefdave · Jan 3, 2016

stupot07 said:
Oh well. Wasps lost yesterday!!!

Does make me laugh how when they lose it gets buried on the CT but when they win it is plastered all over the place!

chiefdave · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
That was the attempt by Sisu to get the Ricoh for 'nothing'. The JR gives details that show that they wanted to buy the £14M loan for £2M. I'm interpreting that as wanting something for nothing.

Christ, must be nice in italia's world where £2m is nothing.

Nick · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
Why are you so defensive when people challenge Sisu figures ?
Explain what the £2M interest is for and why it is so excessive?
What size loan could be financed by a £2M interest payment say at 5%?
My calculation is £40M+ so where has that debt come from in the few years since administration?

Just asking for an explanation and will back down if I'm wrong.

Nothing is £0, your word was free. That's £0. £2m isn't nothing.

It's just the made up scare mongering shite that sounds good when people tell each other to get the anti sisu mood going.

As for pulling wool over eyes, it sounds like you are talking from experience.

Nick · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
That was the attempt by Sisu to get the Ricoh for 'nothing'. The JR gives details that show that they wanted to buy the £14M loan for £2M. I'm interpreting that as wanting something for nothing.

The £2M interest has not been explained in detail because the breakdown is missing and so I'm saying its excessive and can be be regarded as management fees in an underhanded way. In other words it's coming off CCFC top line and putting debt back into the club.

Can't understand why people are so defensive of Sisu.

Nobody is being defensive, if you make stuff up and get corrected that's not defending. You will just ignore anything you don't want to believe and keep coming out with incorrect facts.

What if sisu did take 2m, it's nothing isn't it?

Grendel · Jan 3, 2016

Nick said:
Nothing is £0, your word was free. That's £0. £2m isn't nothing.

It's just the made up scare mongering shite that sounds good when people tell each other to get the anti sisu mood going.

As for pulling wool over eyes, it sounds like you are talking from experience.

It was also between £2 and £5 million and the council also tried to get the loan "on the cheap"

To be honest Italia and his sidekick Tony are just idiots. Everyone should just ignore them.

I guess Italia is a little bit pissed that the wasps giants seem to be 9th in a league of 12.

italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

chiefdave said:
Christ, must be nice in italia's world where £2m is nothing.

Nick said:
Nothing is £0, your word was free. That's £0. £2m isn't nothing.

It's just the made up scare mongering shite that sounds good when people tell each other to get the anti sisu mood going.

As for pulling wool over eyes, it sounds like you are talking from experience.

It's difficult to get over what I mean.

If you get something worth £20M (£14M of items + £6M for ACL) and you pay £8M (£2M + £6M) in theory you have actually made £12M profit and it has cost you less than nothing on your books..

italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

Nick said:
Nothing is £0, your word was free. That's £0. £2m isn't nothing.

It's just the made up scare mongering shite that sounds good when people tell each other to get the anti sisu mood going.

As for pulling wool over eyes, it sounds like you are talking from experience.

People should be scared that these idiots are putting debt in the club.
We will have to live with this debt for years to come and all after we had no debt coming out of administration.

Don't be scared to challenge them on the figures unless your frightened of rocking the Titanic.

Nick · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
People should be scared that these idiots are putting debt in the club.
We will have to live with this debt for years to come and all after we had no debt coming out of administration.

Don't be scared to challenge them on the figures unless your frightened of rocking the Titanic.

As opposed to challenging them and being outraged about things that haven't happened?

It's just a shame the most vocal aren't always the best informed, dangerous.

italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

Grendel said:
It was also between £2 and £5 million and the council also tried to get the loan "on the cheap"

To be honest Italia and his sidekick Tony are just idiots. Everyone should just ignore them.

I guess Italia is a little bit pissed that the wasps giants seem to be 9th in a league of 12.

Ignore us at your peril and cover the fact that they are putting debt into the club.

Your childish Wasp comments comment just sums you up. Keep it for the playground.

Nick · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
It's difficult to get over what I mean.

If you get something worth £20M (£14M of items + £6M for ACL) and you pay £8M (£2M + £6M) in theory you have actually made £12M profit and it has cost you less than nothing on your books..

Less than nothing is less than £0.

In your world does that mean wasps actually got it for nothing? Why no out rage at that? I suppose the goal posts move then?

Moff · Jan 3, 2016

Another loss for Wasps yesterday.

Worse results than last year, and looking at their remaining home fixtures, apart from 2 local derbies, where most the fans will be for the opposition, we may possibly be looking at 5-6k crowds by the season end.

All that money for the (alleged in Eastwoods eyes) Richest club in World Rugby doesnt seem to be filtering through to the team, perhaps its sitting in Richardsons deep pockets.

Nick · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
Ignore us at your peril and cover the fact that they are putting debt into the club.

Your childish Wasp comments comment just sums you up. Keep it for the playground.

A minute ago they were taking 2 million in management fees out and wanted the ricoh for £0.

You were telling everybody to back sisu and giving them stock for not, you had a go at people at sixfields and now do what you were angry about yourself.

Not hard to see why people might choose the ignore option rather than your scare mongering.

italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

Nick said:
As opposed to challenging them and betting outraged about things that haven't happened?

It's just a shame the most vocal aren't always the best informed, dangerous.

Where has this debt come from ?
Even if we loose £5M a year since administration it's not £40M+

£2M return on investment is serious money coming out the club. Is it part of the FFP 60% ?

Nick · Jan 3, 2016

Moff said:
Another loss for Wasps yesterday.

Worse results than last year, and looking at their remaining home fixtures, apart from 2 local derbies, where most the fans will be for the opposition, we may possibly be looking at 5-6k crowds by the season end.

All that money for the (alleged in Eastwoods eyes) Richest club in World Rugby doesnt seem to be filtering through to the team, perhaps its sitting in Richardsons deep pockets.

He paid himself back from the bonds didn't he? Imagine sisu getting debt against the ricoh to pay themselves back. People are outraged about management fees that haven't even happened.

italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

Nick said:
A minute ago they were taking 2 million in management fees out and wanted the ricoh for £0.

You were telling everybody to back sisu and giving them stock for not, you had a go at people at sixfields and now do what you were angry about yourself.

Not hard to see why people might choose the ignore option rather than your scare mongering.

Deflection again.

I never had a go at people who went to Sixfields and like most people we were with Sisu when they took over.

Try again.

Nick · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
Deflection again.

I never had a go at people who went to Sixfields and like most people we were with Sisu when they took over.

Try again.

How is it deflection? I was pointing out why people might not listen to you.

Most people weren't making silly gifs and demanding others follow them were they?

Deflection is you trying to get away from the fact you spout incorrect statements.

italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

Nick said:
He paid himself back from the bonds didn't he? Imagine sisu getting debt against the ricoh to pay themselves back. People are outraged about management fees that haven't even happened.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
At least people can see something tangible for their money unlike us sitting back and watching debt being put into the club, just maybe for some diverse Sisu tax manipulation reasoning.

stupot07 · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
People should be scared that these idiots are putting debt in the club.
We will have to live with this debt for years to come and all after we had no debt coming out of administration.

Don't be scared to challenge them on the figures unless your frightened of rocking the Titanic.

Have you read the original threads of what? You'r asking questions that were asked 9 months ago.

No is frightened off rocking the titanic.

READ THE ORIGINAL THREADS

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Jack Griffin · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
Why are you so defensive when people challenge Sisu figures ?
Explain what the £2M interest is for and why it is so excessive?
What size loan could be financed by a £2M interest payment say at 5%?
My calculation is £40M+ so where has that debt come from in the few years since administration?

Just asking for an explanation and will back down if I'm wrong.

Most recent account summaries are here.
http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/download-accounts-coventry-city-league-one-2316117.aspx

stupot07 · Jan 3, 2016

Jack Griffin said:
Most recent account summaries are here.
http://www.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/download-accounts-coventry-city-league-one-2316117.aspx

He's struggle to understand that only Ccfc ltd went into admin, and not the whole group of companies (I.e. SBS&L, Ccfc Holdings and Ccfc Ltd).

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chiefdave · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
Where has this debt come from ?
Even if we loose £5M a year since administration it's not £40M+

£2M return on investment is serious money coming out the club. Is it part of the FFP 60% ?

You do realise there's more than one company in the group so one of the companies going into administration doesn't wipe the debt of all the other out.

£2m ROI could be good or bad depending how you view what has been put in. If you think SISU have put nothing in its a fantastic return, if you think they've put £60m in its not so good.

italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

stupot07 said:
He's struggle to understand that only Ccfc ltd went into admin, and not the whole group of companies (I.e. SBS&L, Ccfc Holdings and Ccfc Ltd).
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I understand the structure but I do not understand how the £40M debt still in SBSL and the £9M debt in Otium has arrived if we are debt free and cost neutral.

I also fail to see where the £2.6M (SBSL) and £2M (Otium) loans are paid to and in particularly why the £2M (Otium) is so high.
In addition how do these loan payments effect the 60% FFP and in particular the financing of the squad.

I also fail to understand how this effects our club going forward and in particularly what lock in to the club Sisu have given their 'investors' should we want to sell the club at it's actual value.

I don't know why I'm airing this on here because Sisu are only drip feeding information and no one on here is really 'in the know'.

Happy New Year

stupot07 · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
I understand the structure but I do not understand how the £40M debt still in SBSL and the £9M debt in Otium has arrived if we are debt free and cost neutral.

I also fail to see where the £2.6M (SBSL) and £2M (Otium) loans are paid to and in particularly why the £2M (Otium) is so high.
In addition how do these loan payments effect the 60% FFP and in particular the financing of the squad.

I also fail to understand how this effects our club going forward and in particularly what lock in to the club Sisu have given their 'investors' should we want to sell the club at it's actual value.

I don't know why I'm airing this on here because Sisu are only drip feeding information and no one on here is really 'in the know'.

Happy New Year

Why would Ccfc ltd had made SBS&L debt free?

We're not debt free, we have been losing between £6-8m for 8 years, that's where the big debt has come from. Us being "cost neutral" now has nothing to do with the accumulation of debt in the last 8 years. We lost £8m at Sixfields, we lost £7m the season before, etc etc etc.

I have no idea of the Otium, but presume it was transferred from Holdings (not in admin).

Any loan repayments would have no effect on 60% FFP, as the 60% is based on turnover not on outgoings.

And what are the loan payments? You mean loan interest payable? The accumulated interest? Not payments?

OSB has gone through the accounts, has given his view on this. In his opinion sisu have take nothing out of the club, interest has been but nothing taken out of the club.

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stupot07 · Jan 3, 2016

Oh well. Good old wasps.

Bought the Ricoh for free (Italia definition of free) and loaded the stadium with £35m (plus interest) debt, paid himself back. Those lovely Good Samaritans.

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italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

stupot07 said:
Oh well. Good old wasps.

Bought the Ricoh for free (Italia definition of free) and loaded the stadium with £35m (plus interest) debt, paid himself back. Those lovely Good Samaritans.

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Wasps took on the loan at full value so you have looked at my logic wrongly.
The £35M was used to pay off CCC who held the loan and Wasps owner who had loaned them £10M IIRC.

Sick Boy · Jan 3, 2016

Good to see those franchise bellends lost again. No doubt the Telegraph will be in overdrive after this weekend.

Nick · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
Wasps took on the loan at full value so you have looked at my logic wrongly.
The £35M was used to pay off CCC who held the loan and Wasps owner who had loaned them £10M IIRC.

No, you have changed your logic to suit. What did they value it for in their prospectus?

Sick Boy · Jan 3, 2016

Nick said:
No, you have changed your logic to suit

No change there then.

stupot07 · Jan 3, 2016

Nick said:
No, you have changed your logic to suit. What did they value it for in their prospectus?

About £45m IIRC, they paid £6.5m for the shares and 250 year lease, and repaid the loan, so that's less than half of what it's worth in their prospectus. Italia's logic - less than free.

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italiahorse · Jan 3, 2016

Nick said:
No, you have changed your logic to suit. What did they value it for in their prospectus?

stupot07 said:
About £45m IIRC, they paid £6.5m for the shares and 250 year lease, and repaid the loan, so that's less than half of what it's worth in their prospectus. Italia's logic - less than free.

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The prospectus is only a figure it is not it's actual value.
That's what you can actually get.

If you believe it you buy if you don't you pass (Unless you are a Wasps fan with money to spare).

Nick · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
The prospectus is only a figure it is not it's actual value.
That's what you can actually get.

If you believe it you buy if you don't you pass (Unless you are a Wasps fan with money to spare).

So they are mis informing investors?

Amazing how there's an excuse or reason when compared with wasps.

stupot07 · Jan 3, 2016

italiahorse said:
The prospectus is only a figure it is not it's actual value.
That's what you can actually get.

If you believe it you buy if you don't you pass (Unless you are a Wasps fan with money to spare).

like your good self.....

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Nick · Jan 3, 2016

stupot07 said:
About £45m IIRC, they paid £6.5m for the shares and 250 year lease, and repaid the loan, so that's less than half of what it's worth in their prospectus. Italia's logic - less than free.

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Exactly, but that's ok... That's different, because it's not sisu.

Who has wool on their eyes when they rant about one side trying to do something but excuse another from actually doing it?

Back to being the biggest club in Coventry? (4 Viewers)

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