Ballon d’Or (1 Viewer)

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

@Evo1883

I do agree though I think individual awards in a team sport are a bit stupid. If the ballon d’or was given to the best player Messi would probably win it every year but of course it comes down to the achievements of the team, hence why Jorginho has found himself there. No one can argue he is the third best player in the world nor was modric the best player in the world in 2018.

It’s not about corruption or having pals though. It just shows the difficulty of giving such individual awards in a team sport.

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
Which is what I said. You think this year was a close call and before that you have an issue with 2014 which again there is an argument for Ronaldo but I don’t have a strong opinion either way.

Shambles

It basically became Ronaldo v Messi for the last 12 years .. almost rendering anybody else's performances as useless in regards to the trophy .

Goals won it until lewandowski outscored them both then suddenly the copa America became a trophy worth using in the argument it made sure Messi won it again

The modric win was out the blue tbh

Gabriel batistuta won the copa America twice and never won a world player of the year .. mind you he was playing in an era of many many all time greats

clint van damme · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Point being , there's no reward for being a great defender anymore is there .

No matter how much you complain they're not going to give to McFadzean mate!

CBS16 · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
It basically became Ronaldo v Messi for the last 12 years .. almost rendering anybody else's performances as useless in regards to the trophy .

Goals won it until lewandowski outscored them both then suddenly the copa America became a trophy worth using in the argument it made sure Messi won it again

The modric win was out the blue tbh

Gabriel batistuta won the copa America twice and never won a world player of the year .. mind you he was playing in an era of many many all time greats

Again, he's been the best player overall. 27 motm awards in 49 games speaks volumes

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

The copa America today is not the copa America of years gone by ..

If Messi aguero and Neymar werent playing it would basically be the same standard as the CONCACAF gold cup

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
It basically became Ronaldo v Messi for the last 12 years .. almost rendering anybody else's performances as useless in regards to the trophy .

Goals won it until lewandowski outscored them both then suddenly the copa America became a trophy worth using in the argument
it made sure Messi won it again

The modric win was out the blue tbh

Gabriel batistuta won the copa America twice and never won a world player of the year .. mind you he was playing in an era of many many all time greats

So in the last 10 years (when this award has been a shambles). Which copa America winner should have been in with a shout of the ballon d’or and therefore rendering the copa America win a valid point to raise in the argument? Or is it simply that this year there is a copa America winner who has also had a fantastic season and therefore in the running for the award?

CBS16 · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
The copa America today is not the copa America of years gone by ..

If Messi aguero and Neymar werent playing it would basically be the same standard as the CONCACAF gold cup

Nonsense

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

CBS16 said:
Again, he's been the best player overall. 27 motm awards in 49 games speaks volumes

View attachment 22919

Mate no disrespect but have you seen the state of la liga the last couple years ? It's genuinley shite.

I'd of been surprised if Messi wasn't MOTM almost every week

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
So in the last 10 years (when this award has been a shambles). Which copa America winner should have been in with a shout of the ballon d’or and therefore rendering the copa America win a valid point to raise in the argument? Or is it simply that this year there is a copa America winner who has also had a fantastic season and therefore in the running for the award?

The copa America is shite , apologies but its of a lower standard in 2021 than the nations league

CBS16 · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Mate no disrespect but have you seen the state of la liga the last couple years ? It's genuinley shite.

I'd of been surprised if Messi wasn't MOTM almost every week

So playing up front for Bayern in the bundesliga is harder?

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
The copa America is shite , apologies but its of a lower standard in 2021 than the nations league

Which wasn’t what I asked and so we’ll leave it there.

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

CBS16 said:
So playing up front for Bayern in the bundesliga is harder?

Over the last 24 months la liga is in the worst state I can remember in my lifetime .

All 3 of the top sides are guff, bayern are not

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
Which wasn’t what I asked and so we’ll leave it there.

The copa America shouldn't be used as an argument to win the balon dor really , I'm not sure what else you wanted me to say .. it's a poor competition

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Over the last 24 months la liga is in the worst state I can remember in my lifetime .

All 3 of the top sides are guff, bayern are not

Not sure that helps your case.

You’re saying Messi has had a great season for a poor team in a poor league and Lewandowski has had a great season for a great team in a poor league?

Messi who also has more assists and better chance creation stats playing in a poorer team?

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
Not sure that helps your case.

You’re saying Messi has had a great season for a poor team in a poor league and Lewandowski has had a great season for a great team in a poor league?

Messi who also has more assists and better chance creation stats playing in a poorer team?

Messi is an all time great , he stood out when la liga was a very good league and the Spanish clubs were mopping up in Europe.. he stands out no matter what .

NOTHING Messi did in 2021 made him deserve this award over lewandowski .. it was a relatively mediocre year for him in comparison to his career

Lewandowski had an exceptional year , and did enough to win the award

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Over the last 24 months la liga is in the worst state I can remember in my lifetime .

All 3 of the top sides are guff, bayern are not

Only Bayern from the German league are likely to make champions league knockouts. There are 3 Spanish sides who will make it with 2 more having a great chance

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Messi is an all time great , he stood out when la liga was a very good league and the Spanish clubs were mopping up in Europe.. he stands out no matter what .

NOTHING Messi did in 2021 made him deserve this award over lewandowski .. it was a relatively mediocre year for him in comparison to his career

Lewandowski had an exceptional year , and did enough to win the award

You have been shown the stats. The only thing Lewandowski has over Messi is goals which you have said yourself should not be the be all and end all? In fact you have laughed at it just being about goals.

You are choosing to ignore the copa America and copa del Rey and saying winning the bundesliga is a tougher achievement than winning both of those.

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
Only Bayern from the German league are likely to make champions league knockouts. There are 3 Spanish sides who will make it with 2 more having a great chance

Leipzig are in the same group as PSG and Man city
Atletico , the current Spanish champions are bottom of their group with Liverpool

Dortmund lost their star player a few weeks back to injury and have lost 4 of their last 9 games in all competitions

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
You have been shown the stats. The only thing Lewandowski has over Messi is goals which you have said yourself should not be the be all and end all? In fact you have laughed at it just being about goals.

You are choosing to ignore the copa America and copa del Rey and saying winning the bundesliga is a tougher achievement than winning both of those.

Winning the bundesliga is far superior to winning the Spanish Cup.

The copa America is of similar standard to the nations league , and even then the top groups ? Not sure about that ..

I don't see how Messi excelled beyond lewandowski this year

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Winning the bundesliga is far superior to winning the Spanish Cup.

The copa America is of similar standard to the nations league , and even then the top groups ? Not sure about that ..

I don't see how Messi excelled beyond lewandowsi this year

And I don’t see how lewandowski excelled beyond Messi so we’ll agree to disagree. You said yourself it’s close and I think the copa America tipped him over the edge.

It wasn’t anything to do with Messi paying for it or having more friends than Lewandowski.

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

The argument has shifted to basically MOTM awards and assists

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
And I don’t see how lewandowski excelled beyond Messi so we’ll agree to disagree. You said yourself it’s close and I think the copa America tipped him over the edge.

It wasn’t anything to do with Messi paying for it or having more friends than Lewandowski.

Do you think Robert lewandowski can ever win an international trophy with Poland in Europe
And do you think Poland would have a good chance of achieving the final or later stages of the copa America ?

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
The argument has shifted to basically MOTM awards and assists

No it’s a combination of everything. Goals, assists, man of the matches etc. But they give a greater regard to silverware.

I personally disagree with that as you shouldn’t take into account a teams performances in individual awards but that’s how it is. There’s no conspiracy about pay offs or friends though unfortunately

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Do you think Robert lewandowski can ever win an international trophy with Poland in Europe
And do you think Poland would have a good chance of achieving the final or later stages of the copa America ?

No mate which is why I don’t think team performances should be considered but they are and that’s why Modric won it

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
No it’s a combination of everything. Goals, assists, man of the matches etc. But they give a greater regard to silverware.

I personally disagree with that as you shouldn’t take into account a teams performances in individual awards but that’s how it is. There’s no conspiracy about pay offs or friends though unfortunately

So cruyff , a Barcelona legend .. who loved Messi.. said it because bants

Believe A man with friends in high places when he was alive or shall I believe boosh on SBT

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
So cruyff , a Barcelona legend .. who loved Messi.. said it because bants

Believe A man with friends in high places when he was alive or shall I believe boosh on SBT

We’ll leave it there Evo because you’re a decent poster and I really enjoy your opinions on stuff like this and football from the 2000s which I’m too young to really understand.

We just disagree on this you don’t need to be condescending about it mate.

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
We’ll leave it there Evo because you’re a decent poster and I really enjoy your opinions on stuff like this and football from the 2000s which I’m too young to really understand.

We just disagree on this you don’t need to be condescending about it mate.

OK fair enough , apologies .it wasn't really my intention

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

BTW my point was I actually do think Poland would do pretty well in the copa America these days.. such is today's standard of the competition ..

Have Brazil ever been so un scary
Used to be shit scared of them as a footballing side

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
OK fair enough , apologies .it wasn't really my intention

At least you have a reasoned debate. The others on here just used to call me a c**t because they disagreed with me. You just have to look at my Hamer thread for that.

And when I gave it back I got banned lol

Evo1883 · Nov 30, 2021

Warthog said:
At least you have a reasoned debate. The others on here just used to call me a c**t because they disagreed with me. You just have to look at my Hamer thread for that.

And when I gave it back I got banned lol

If I'm totally honest , I don't actually give a shit Messi won it .. I thought about it briefly this morning " I think lewa should have won that " and then went about my day .

It's only as I seen it on here I thought I'd give my opinion .

Warthog · Nov 30, 2021

Evo1883 said:
If I'm totally honest , I don't actually give a shit Messi won it .. I thought about it briefly this morning " I think lewa should have won that " and then went about my day .

It's only as I seen it on here I thought I'd give my opinion .

Which is what this place is for.

Just don’t say Saka is shit or @robbiekeane will call you a c**t and threaten to phone you.

Oh and if you dare talk about little mix @skyblue1991 will call you a c**t even though he’s a 30 year old Virgin who likes fleur east and thinks biamou is better than Godden

robbiekeane · Dec 1, 2021

Warthog said:
Which is what this place is for.

Just don’t say Saka is shit or @robbiekeane will call you a c**t and threaten to phone you.

Oh and if you dare talk about little mix @skyblue1991 will call you a c**t even though he’s a 30 year old Virgin who likes fleur east and thinks biamou is better than Godden

Such a sad little boy

rob9872 · Dec 1, 2021

Warthog is a wum troll knobhead as he's proved on many previous threads already, but ... I have to agree he's spot on all over this one.

Messi won this year on merit and fully deserved imo, in fact in a very grendell way warthog has tied you all up with your own arguments too.

There are possibly years where the right person hasn't won, but this isn't one of them.

mark82 · Dec 1, 2021

Evo1883 said:
It basically became Ronaldo v Messi for the last 12 years .. almost rendering anybody else's performances as useless in regards to the trophy .

Goals won it until lewandowski outscored them both then suddenly the copa America became a trophy worth using in the argument it made sure Messi won it again

The modric win was out the blue tbh

Gabriel batistuta won the copa America twice and never won a world player of the year .. mind you he was playing in an era of many many all time greats

To be fair, Batistuta wouldn't have been eligible to win when he won his Copa's. Non-European players were only eligible from, I think, 1995 - which is why you'll not see the likes of Maradona & Pele on the list.

mark82 · Dec 1, 2021

rob9872 said:
Warthog is a wum troll knobhead as he's proved on many previous threads already, but ... I have to agree he's spot on all over this one.

Messi won this year on merit and fully deserved imo, in fact in a very grendell way warthog has tied you all up with your own arguments too.

There are possibly years where the right person hasn't won, but this isn't one of them.

I'd have maybe gone Lewandowski but can make an equally compelling argument for Messi. Now he's gone to PSG that will probably be the end of his run. Need to be playing in one of the top leagues for me. French league just isn't competitive enough in my view.

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