Benjamin Mendy. (1 Viewer)

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jan 13, 2023

robbiekeane said:
As I’ve said to you before, there’s no point debating with you. Learnt that when you compared needing proof of vaccination to the holocaust and stuck to it.

Segregating society based on a piece of medicine which primary purpose has nothing to do with stopping transmission is an absolute disgrace. You were someone advocating for that if I remember, so it doesn't surprise me that you choose to get offended by a choice of words when you get called out and have nowhere else to go.

I guess you are upset because someone got found not guilty today. Whether they are or not is probably still to be determined, but stringing someone up if they are actually innocent is not going to help either. My points are legitimate, and I have a massive concern with people crying rape, as it goes relatively unpunished and impacts the real victims in a lamentable way.

If you aren't going to debate with me properly, then fuck off and don't bother posting.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 13, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Segregating society based on a piece of medicine which primary purpose has nothing to do with stopping transmission is an absolute disgrace. You were someone advocating for that if I remember, so it doesn't surprise me that you choose to get offended by a choice of words when you get called out and have nowhere else to go.

I guess you are upset because someone got found not guilty today. Whether they are or not is probably still to be determined, but stringing someone up if they are actually innocent is not going to help either. My points are legitimate, and I have a massive concern with people crying rape, as it goes relatively unpunished and impacts the real victims in a lamentable way.

If you aren't going to debate with me properly, then fuck off and don't bother posting.

I think you need to accept that proving sexual assault happened isn't straightforward. First off any victim has to come forward and relive the experience through giving testimony. Then give physical evidence which even then might not be accepted if the perpetrator claims it was just 'rough'. So all that's left is to either be caught in the act, or as in Mason Greenwood's case, for it to be recorded.

We know that the conviction rate is nowhere near a reflection of how often it happens and if your default assumption is that it's probably being made up, it needs revisiting.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jan 13, 2023

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I think you need to accept that proving sexual assault happened isn't straightforward. First off any victim has to come forward and relive the experience through giving testimony. Then give physical evidence which even then might not be accepted if the perpetrator claims it was just 'rough'. So all that's left is to either be caught in the act, or as in Mason Greenwood's case, for it to be recorded.

We know that the conviction rate is nowhere near a reflection of how often it happens and if your default assumption is that it's probably being made up, it needs revisiting.

I know a real victim and I also know someone that made it up. I can run through and list the whole processes for both scenarios and am well aware that proving a sexual assault is difficult, and that giving a testimony can be harrowing. I also know that making false accusations can ruin people's lives and also make it more difficult for real victims to be believed as a result of it.

I'm not sure what it is with the off topic chat and red rags to bulls. I partially suspect it is because people don't want to debate the difficult aspects of something like this, so they throw labels around like 'victim blaming' or pretend they can't read the points that have been written. I never said at any point that the conviction rate is not higher only because people make shit up or that it is the sole reason. I just said that it does have a big impact in getting justice for the real victims. To deny that only makes it more difficult for them.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jan 13, 2023

The burden of proof is always and should remain “beyond reasonable doubt” it’s a criminal case after all.

the issue is 2 fold:-
1) a lot of rape cases are his words against hers
2) the CPS is crap - they’re terrible when building cases. I also feel the police aren’t equipped to handle such cases. Which also leads to the cases falling down.

false accusations are small and pretty much irreverent.

in my opinion a lot of the issue with reporting such cases is that it becomes public very quick. Because of the the burden of proof, people assume it’s a false allegation when the defendant is found not guilty. The disgusting vitriol then gets handed out. (See the ched evans girl - she never actually accused him of rape. Just that she doesn’t remember what happened and the CPS pressured her into it)

Rape cases should be anonymous until a guilty verdict is given.

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 13, 2023

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
The burden of proof is always and should remain “beyond reasonable doubt” it’s a criminal case after all.

the issue is 2 fold:-
1) a lot of rape cases are his words against hers
2) the CPS is crap - they’re terrible when building cases. I also feel the police aren’t equipped to handle such cases. Which also leads to the cases falling down.

false accusations are small and pretty much irreverent.

in my opinion a lot of the issue with reporting such cases is that it becomes public very quick. Because of the the burden of proof, people assume it’s a false allegation when the defendant is found not guilty. The disgusting vitriol then gets handed out. (See the ched evans girl - she never actually accused him of rape. Just that she doesn’t remember what happened and the CPS pressured her into it)

Rape cases should be anonymous until a guilty verdict is given.

Both parties

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jan 13, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Both parties

Hence why I said until a guilty verdict is given

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jan 13, 2023

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
The burden of proof is always and should remain “beyond reasonable doubt” it’s a criminal case after all.

the issue is 2 fold:-
1) a lot of rape cases are his words against hers
2) the CPS is crap - they’re terrible when building cases. I also feel the police aren’t equipped to handle such cases. Which also leads to the cases falling down.

false accusations are small and pretty much irreverent.

in my opinion a lot of the issue with reporting such cases is that it becomes public very quick. Because of the the burden of proof, people assume it’s a false allegation when the defendant is found not guilty. The disgusting vitriol then gets handed out. (See the ched evans girl - she never actually accused him of rape. Just that she doesn’t remember what happened and the CPS pressured her into it)

Rape cases should be anonymous until a guilty verdict is given.

They aren't small and irrelevant. If they were then none of the rest of what you've written would be the case. Burden of proof would be much less of a thing or even obsolete if no one ever made false claims.

The Ched Evans case was pretty unique as it was in public, and you always get scummy football fans that are going to jump on that. I agree with you that the CPS there were in the wrong, and they are definitely a massive problem considering they have such a large responsibility in our justice system. That is without doubt a much larger discussion though.

Rape is infrequently 'man drags stranger down alleyway', and I concur that it can be very hard to prove in a lot of scenarios. I just think people that won't admit there are some right wronguns out there that make it up, are being a bit naïve. You don't need a lot of them to undermine the real cases anyway, but I genuinely believe there are many more circumstances of that lost in there than most think.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jan 13, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
They aren't small and irrelevant. If they were then none of the rest of what you've written would be the case. Burden of proof would be much less of a thing or even obsolete if no one ever made false claims.

The Ched Evans case was pretty unique as it was in public, and you always get scummy football fans that are going to jump on that. I agree with you that the CPS there were in the wrong, and they are definitely a massive problem considering they have such a large responsibility in our justice system. That is without doubt a much larger discussion though.

Rape is infrequently 'man drags stranger down alleyway', and I concur that it can be very hard to prove in a lot of scenarios. I just think people that won't admit there are some right wronguns out there that make it up, are being a bit naïve. You don't need a lot of them to undermine the real cases anyway, but I genuinely believe there are many more circumstances of that lost in there than most think.

Actual false accusations are minuscule in the grand scheme of things. They do happen yes - but people mix not guilty as a false allegation

They can’t lower the burden of proof but there needs to be more investment in the CPS/Police in how these allegations are dealt with

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 13, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
They aren't small and irrelevant. If they were then none of the rest of what you've written would be the case. Burden of proof would be much less of a thing or even obsolete if no one ever made false claims.

The Ched Evans case was pretty unique as it was in public, and you always get scummy football fans that are going to jump on that. I agree with you that the CPS there were in the wrong, and they are definitely a massive problem considering they have such a large responsibility in our justice system. That is without doubt a much larger discussion though.

Rape is infrequently 'man drags stranger down alleyway', and I concur that it can be very hard to prove in a lot of scenarios. I just think people that won't admit there are some right wronguns out there that make it up, are being a bit naïve. You don't need a lot of them to undermine the real cases anyway, but I genuinely believe there are many more circumstances of that lost in there than most think.

On balance, are there more people who commit rape/sexual assault and escape justice, or more people who are falsely convicted? It's like comparing the number of male sexual assault victims to female-of course both exist, but the numbers are heavily weighted in one direction. I have recently represented a female teacher who was falsely accused of raping a male student-proven beyond doubt to have been completely fabricated-so I fully get what a fake accusation can do.

But the numbers show we need to be much more sympathetic to people who are brave enough to come forward in the first place.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jan 13, 2023

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Actual false accusations are minuscule in the grand scheme of things. They do happen yes - but people mix not guilty as a false allegation

They can’t lower the burden of proof but there needs to be more investment in the CPS/Police in how these allegations are dealt with

I really don't think they are anywhere near as miniscule as you think they are. It isn't just 'this case was a false accusation', most of them are buried under 'not enough evidence', which also then includes a lot of genuine victims.

And yes, agree regarding the CPS point.

robbiekeane · Jan 13, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Segregating society based on a piece of medicine which primary purpose has nothing to do with stopping transmission is an absolute disgrace. You were someone advocating for that if I remember, so it doesn't surprise me that you choose to get offended by a choice of words when you get called out and have nowhere else to go.

I guess you are upset because someone got found not guilty today. Whether they are or not is probably still to be determined, but stringing someone up if they are actually innocent is not going to help either. My points are legitimate, and I have a massive concern with people crying rape, as it goes relatively unpunished and impacts the real victims in a lamentable way.

If you aren't going to debate with me properly, then fuck off and don't bother posting.

You can’t debate. You argue.
You never ever concede any part of a point or not matter how minuscule or any alternative view and you can’t think critically.

Just look at yourself using terms such as “Crying rape” in this context. File that with your holocaust comments you still haven’t apologised for. You’re just a piece of shit to be honest so that’s why.

And I’ll post when I like 🫠

robbiekeane · Jan 13, 2023

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
They can’t lower the burden of proof but there needs to be more investment in the CPS/Police in how these allegations are dealt with

It’s Inherently just an extremely difficult thing to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. They are almost always days or weeks after the event, there are rarely any defence wounds, the events take place in a bedroom more often than not without any cctv, and there are no eye witnesses.

Imagine a burglary where there’s no physical evidence at all, no CCTV, no evidence of anything being stolen, and it’s reported weeks after the event happened.

Indont have any experience of the CPS but I think it’s always going to be extremely difficult

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jan 13, 2023

robbiekeane said:
You can’t debate. You argue.
You never ever concede any part of a point or not matter how minuscule or any alternative view and you can’t think critically.

Just look at yourself using terms such as “Crying rape” in this context. File that with your holocaust comments you still haven’t apologised for. You’re just a piece of shit to be honest so that’s why.

And I’ll post when I like 🫠

In fairness, I am one of few still standing on this off topic board that does come up with an alternative view, whatever you think of me or my opinions. I also frequently concede viewpoints from the opposite side of the fence and acknowledge their value, a brief look at my posting history even today will tell you that. Getting emotive isn't an argument though, which is what you did. You failed to come up with any counter points, which is why you went down the coronavirus avenue. It also shows that you lack any kind of intelligence to resurrect that though, given that we are now in a point of time when it is clear those ideologies are absolutely abhorrent. Again, you can get upset with what I said, or you can pick the details and debate it like an adult. It seems to me like this is the second time you have failed to do so.

You're going to have to do better I'm afraid.

robbiekeane · Jan 14, 2023

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
In fairness, I am one of few still standing on this off topic board that does come up with an alternative view, whatever you think of me or my opinions. I also frequently concede viewpoints from the opposite side of the fence and acknowledge their value, a brief look at my posting history even today will tell you that. Getting emotive isn't an argument though, which is what you did. You failed to come up with any counter points, which is why you went down the coronavirus avenue. It also shows that you lack any kind of intelligence to resurrect that though, given that we are now in a point of time when it is clear those ideologies are absolutely abhorrent. Again, you can get upset with what I said, or you can pick the details and debate it like an adult. It seems to me like this is the second time you have failed to do so.

You're going to have to do better I'm afraid.

And ignore

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jan 14, 2023

robbiekeane said:
It’s Inherently just an extremely difficult thing to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. They are almost always days or weeks after the event, there are rarely any defence wounds, the events take place in a bedroom more often than not without any cctv, and there are no eye witnesses.

Imagine a burglary where there’s no physical evidence at all, no CCTV, no evidence of anything being stolen, and it’s reported weeks after the event happened.

Indont have any experience of the CPS but I think it’s always going to be extremely difficult

It is extremely difficult - hence why the conviction rate is so low. But it doesn’t mean you lower the burden of proof just to get convictions - that’s a slippery slope.

it also doesn’t stop the CPS and the police being inept at case building.

what worries me is that they’ll reverse the burden of proof onto the male, which again is a dangerous precedent.

stupot07 · Jan 14, 2023

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Otis · Jul 14, 2023

BBC News - Ex-Man City footballer Benjamin Mendy found not guilty of rape

Ex-Man City footballer Benjamin Mendy found not guilty of rape

The footballer was accused of raping a woman and attempting to rape another at his Cheshire home.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 14, 2023

Otis said:
BBC News - Ex-Man City footballer Benjamin Mendy found not guilty of rape

Ex-Man City footballer Benjamin Mendy found not guilty of rape

The footballer was accused of raping a woman and attempting to rape another at his Cheshire home.

www.bbc.co.uk

Wow

covcity4life · Jul 14, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Wow

Why wow? Did you have proof?

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 14, 2023

covcity4life said:
Why wow? Did you have proof?

Wow surprised and no

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