Bile ad nauseum (1 Viewer)

Houdi · Jul 30, 2012

Grendel said:
Not saying they are but it seems rather curious to me.

People just need to accept some have views different to others. The suggestion that some fans should be vetoed from criticising a manager on a football forum makes us collectively a laughing stock especially one who has delivered the worst league positions in over half a century.

I would understand it if the Euromillions thread or the Godiva thread were hijacked by us nasty anti-Thorn terrorists with our appalling views but they are not. I don't care who is the majority and who isn't. I don't care if it is just me with a view I can express it if I want as can anyone else - this isn't North Korea - people need to grow up and accept that shock horror some football fans may hold a manager to account when they think he isn't very good. How shocking.

While personally I have no problem with people posting pro/anti Thorn or pro/anti SISU posts,after all that what a proper forum should be all about.What I find a little ironic is that a lot/most of the criticism Thorn seems to attract relates to his lack of managerial experience,not having his coaching badges,and thus being tactically naive etc etc.However Thorn has played football at the professional level and has been involved at other clubs in scouting roles,so clearly some people in the game rated his football credentials at the professional level.Yet I suspect the professional football qualifications of most people (inluding myself) on this forum is non-existent.
The great beauty about football is you can hear a million different opinions,even so called experts can have widely contrasting views of players/teams/tactics etc.If Thorn had done this,if Thorn had a played this formation,this player ,made this substitution,etc etc would we have stayed up?Maybe,but maybe we would have done even worse.
Claiming statistically he is the worse manager in our history,would be relevant if each managers were able to use the same players or maybe players with similar abilities.Put SISU in charge of Man City 5 years ago and would Mancini have them as champions,I very much doubt it.

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Jul 30, 2012

First off, I am not the same person as the thread originator – I’m sure Nick can check IP addresses and verify this.

However, I do find myself wholly in agreement with its sentiment. Certainly, discussion and debate is what forums such as this are all about. However, debate is nullified by prejudice, and that abounds. I was hoping that everyone could place last season where it should remain – condemned to history.

We all know that Thorn’s win ratio is the worst in living memory. Clearly stated. The mitigation being we were funded our playing squad lower than practically anyone in the league, played more youngsters more often than anyone else, and again lost players who simply weren’t replaced. Exactly how much the latter impacted the former we’ll never know. However, one thing we can all agree upon is that this season we seem to be better equipped to deal with the league in which we are placed – and certainly Thorn has the tools at his disposal by means of quality and squad depth to make us competitive. Accordingly, we can now truly judge Thorn this year. I honestly have no idea if he’s a good manager, or whether he’s terrible; as I – like everyone else – have no idea how significant the mitigating circumstances were with regards our final league position. However, I’m prepared to make a judgement based upon what I see.

A view needs to be based upon what we see, not upon what we remember. And when every thread can, and often is used as a vehicle to hark back to what was, as opposed to what can be; I agree, it’s depressing

Otis · Jul 30, 2012

The acid test for Andy Thorn is this season. Seemingly, everyone is expecting a challenge for top 6 at least. If he doesn't deliver he's going to get both barrels unfortunately. The expectation this season is so much greater.

Nick · Jul 30, 2012

Yes and I am pretty sure what happened last season will be in the past when the new season starts. How can people talk about how things have turned out, how Thorn has performed, how the players have performed yet when the season hasn't started? That is why people keep pointing out things from last season.

Otis · Jul 30, 2012

Well this is the way I see it too Nick. People are still talking about last season because this season is yet to kick off.

Maupet · Jul 30, 2012

This thread is boring. There is not even any comedy in it . I got fed up with it after a couple of pages

Otis · Jul 30, 2012

There's comedy in it now you've joined.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 30, 2012

Any thread with Thorn in the title is simply Grendel baiting (we need a 'Beowulf' user for balance I think) and anyone who uses this forum even semi regularly knows that is the case. It's a very tedious and repetitive debate, sure, but by complaining about it people prolong the boredom. Post about something new or don't post anything-otherwise stop whining.

Nick · Jul 30, 2012

Exactly. If you make a post moaning about a subject being talked about too much it is just fueling.

It is like trying to put out a fire with petrol and moaning when it doesn't go out!

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jul 30, 2012

The acid test for Andy Thorn is this season. Seemingly, everyone is
expecting a challenge for top 6 at least. If he doesn't deliver he's going to
get both barrels unfortunately. The expectation this season is so much
greater.

I'm expecting nothing other than the usual......a good start....false hope....cocky away support.....reality bites in November.....losing streak extends to the new year.....bitching, moaning, dwindling away support, booing home support...Pathetic SISU out protests as poorly organised & self-defeating as a Gordon Strachan defence, Thorn sacked in Feb.....Ethel the tea lady appointed caretaker manager (assuming she'll take a wage cut)....players rally in the last 10 games to finsh 17th.

I'm really looknig forward to it

Maupet · Jul 30, 2012

Well done otis. Thats a lot better. Keep it up

ClarrieB · Jul 30, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
First off, I am not the same person as the thread originator – I’m sure Nick can check IP addresses and verify this. As you know - Nick will not be checking your IP

However, I do find myself wholly in agreement with its sentiment. Certainly, discussion and debate is what forums such as this are all about. However, debate is nullified by prejudice, and that abounds. I was hoping that everyone could place last season where it should remain – condemned to history. Are you not prejudice in anyway then?

We all know that Thorn’s win ratio is the worst in living memory. Clearly stated. The mitigation being we were funded our playing squad lower than practically anyone in the league, played more youngsters more often than anyone else, and again lost players who simply weren’t replaced. Exactly how much the latter impacted the former we’ll never know. However, one thing we can all agree upon is that this season we seem to be better equipped to deal with the league in which we are placed I don't agree to that so, not everyone – and certainly Thorn has the tools at his disposal by means of quality and squad depth to make us competitive. Accordingly, we can now truly judge Thorn this year. I honestly have no idea if he’s a good manager, or whether he’s terrible; I do as I – like everyone else not everyone – have no idea how significant the mitigating circumstances were with regards our final league position. However, I’m prepared to make a judgement based upon what I see.

A view needs to be based upon what we see I've seen enough , not upon what we remember. And when every thread can, and often is used as a vehicle to hark back to what was, as opposed to what can be; I agree, it’s depressing

"Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past"

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Jul 30, 2012

ClarrieB said:
"Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past"

Very Santayonian. A person, or persons can learn from their past and wipe the slate clean. Upon meeting a German, would you incessantly judge them by their nation's antics during the war?

And last year's context is sharply in contrast to this

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe · Jul 30, 2012

There are a few things which you have written there which I could take umbrage with, but the one that jumped out is the fact you don't think that we are better equipped to make a fist of things in League 1 this season than we should have been in the Championship last season. I don't get it, can you explain? You are expecting us to be dead last in the League this time around?

ClarrieB · Jul 30, 2012

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe said:
There are a few things which you have written there which I could take umbrage with, but the one that jumped out is the fact you don't think that we are better equipped to make a fist of things in League 1 this season than we should have been in the Championship last season. I don't get it, can you explain? You are expecting us to be dead last in the League this time around?

In a word, Yes

stupot07 · Jul 30, 2012

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe said:
There are a few things which you have written there which I could take umbrage with, but the one that jumped out is the fact you don't think that we are better equipped to make a fist of things in League 1 this season than we should have been in the Championship last season. I don't get it, can you explain? You are expecting us to be dead last in the League this time around?

If he doesn't think we're better equipped for league one than last season he can't complain if we're in the relegation zone come Xmas.

ClarrieB · Jul 30, 2012

Mary_Mungo_Midge said:
Very Santayonian. A person, or persons can learn from their past and wipe the slate clean. Upon meeting a German, would you incessantly judge them by their nation's antics during the war?

And last year's context is sharply in contrast to this

Santonian? Not sure what you mean

ClarrieB · Jul 30, 2012

stupot07 said:
If he doesn't think we're better equipped for league one than last season he can't complain if we're in the relegation zone come Xmas.

Why not Stupot?

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Jul 30, 2012

I agree it is pathetic, some people do have legitimate criticisms which is fair enough but others have a go at him if Thorn sneezes the wrong way. It is hard to tell weather some posts are serious or just winding up other posters

DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe · Jul 30, 2012

Fair enough, I don't know enough about our new players or other League 1 squads to say where we shall finish in the League, but I suspect we will fare better than bottom. Out of interest, supposing that you really think we are less equipped to deal with a season in League 1 now than we were in the Championship (and it wasn't just a trite reaction to someone you have taken to disagreeing with), how would you feel if we finished one place outside the relegation zone and stayed up on goal difference? Overjoyed as a Coventry fan who foresaw finishing 24th?

stupot07 · Jul 30, 2012

ClarrieB said:
Why not Stupot?

Because if your seasons expectations that we are going to finish dead last then your expectations of been met!

Mary_Mungo_Midge · Jul 30, 2012

ClarrieB said:
Santonian? Not sure what you mean

Your quote being plagiarised, in spirit at least, from the musings of Spanish philosopher George Santayana, no?

Godiva · Jul 30, 2012

I do wonder if Thorn is an adaquate manager. I simply don't know - yet. His job is to primarily to setup the style of play, pick the players for his system and make sure every player is motivated and prepared to run the extra yards ... chase the lost courses.

Up till now he really have only had the chance to choose his system. The much debated diamond formation. But the players were mostly some he inherited. Yes, most were scouted by himself, but for another system and another style of play.And with all the rubbish off-field Thorn has been in a very hard competition for the players attention and motivation. It's hard to keep asking the players to run the extra yard when deep in their minds they know their club is on the brink of insolvency as well as having customers in open war with the owners.

This season will be different - For the first time Thorn has picked the players he thinks are right for his system, his style of play and for the league. For the first time there seem to be a sort of calmness surrounding the club, it may change in blink of the eye, but if it don't he will not face stiff competition for the players attention and motivation.It may take till Christmas to gel everything together, and my only hope is that we don't panic if we sit mid-table come December.

Nick · Jul 30, 2012

Surely as a manager though, if he doesn't have access to bring in lots of players he should be choosing a style of play to suit what he has?

dongonzalos · Jul 30, 2012

Otis said:
Ahh, the old anti-Thorn/pro-Thorn thing again.

Amusing the amount of posters who say they are 'not a fan of Thorn' but then get into tirades about the 'anti Thorn brigade.'

The way I see it is that most people are just posters posting about what they see is right and when they see things are wrong. We have just been relegated, so pretty much everything has been wrong of late (club from top to bottom).

If we start doing well I am sure Thorn will get praise. If we do badly he will quite rightly get criticised. That is the camp I am in. When he gets it right I praise him, when he gets it wrong I give him stick.

Don't see any problem with that at all.

I see very few people who are 'anti Thorn.' They are just yet to be convinced by him.

To be fair he seems balanced, he is criticising thorn and also saying despite his faults it is hard judge someone when they have to play untried kids.

His point though was that too many threads descend into a AT debate.

Maybe the AT debates should be kep to threads that are about that subject then someone who starts a thread about something else doesn't get it hijacked by this subject.

Gaz · Jul 30, 2012

CCFC said:
I agree it is pathetic, some people do have legitimate criticisms which is fair enough but others have a go at him if Thorn sneezes the wrong way. It is hard to tell weather some posts are serious or just winding up other posters

My thoughts exactly.

Grendel · Jul 30, 2012

dongonzalos said:
To be fair he seems balanced, he is criticising thorn and also saying despite his faults it is hard judge someone when they have to play untried kids.

His point though was that too many threads descend into a AT debate.

Maybe the AT debates should be kep to threads that are about that subject then someone who starts a thread about something else doesn't get it hijacked by this subject.

No threads are hijacked. They are all appropriate discussions and actually are often triggered so some silly comment like he's the best since jimmy hill or his had mass body amputation by sisu. At that point some of us decide to take another view. The funny thing is people who moan about the content contribute a significant amount to it!

Nick · Jul 30, 2012

How about I change it so when people type Thorn it shows a funny word?

Grendel · Jul 30, 2012

What like Dumbo?

dongonzalos · Jul 30, 2012

Nick said:
There seems to be a few different "camps":

Thorn is a god

Thorn is a good manager but his hands were tied

We couldn't judge him because of the squad

Not fussed on Thorn as long as we win

Thorn is a poor manager

Thorn is an awful human being

Definately the third option but I would have the words squad/sisu.

This season 2 more signings I will be judging him if we don't make play offs.

Without those 2 extra signings I will be judging him if we are in the bottom 5.

Creative midfielder and goal scorer and all other key players staying put

dongonzalos · Jul 30, 2012

Grendel said:
No threads are hijacked. They are all appropriate discussions and actually are often triggered so some silly comment like he's the best since jimmy hill or his had mass body amputation by sisu. At that point some of us decide to take another view. The funny thing is people who moan about the content contribute a significant amount to it!

I don't what you about comments like that.

Anyway, I hope you realise that only he and Jimmy Hill would have got West Ham promoted 10 points clear and they would have done it in style.

Personally I feel I hit the end if the line with the debate. It us so subjective. I have my own targets with this season.

With the current signings he should keep us up. Play good footey and have a happy changing room.

However I really believe he is 2 decent signings from the play offs. These signings need to be ones who are not bolstering the squad like ball and Brown. But ones who will be first choicers.

Sign them and no play offs the AT's time has gone.

Without those signings we will need Wood, Baker, Sheff and Cody to play 90 percent of all matches to get in the play offs IMO.

Grendel · Jul 30, 2012

dongonzalos said:
Definately the third option but I would have the words squad/sisu.

This season 2 more signi.vs I will be judging him if we don't make play offs.

Without those 2 extra signings I will be judging him if we are in the bottom 5.

Creative midfielder and goal scorer and all other key players staying put

Are you saying 6th from bottom is acceptable with the squad he already has.

Jack Griffin · Jul 30, 2012

I think Waggot is still wheeling & dealing. Wood & Hussey are his biggest bargaining chips. ...but back to the original point..about the way Thorn is viewed on the forum.

My view is he was screwed last year, this year he has reasonable backing, but will have to be a decent manager to be promoted with the squad as it is. If he can't get a play-off place with the squad he is given, he is inadequate and should be replaced. If was are in bottom half at Christmas then sooner rather than later. I believe he has one chance & I think he must realise it.

dongonzalos · Jul 30, 2012

Grendel said:
Are you saying 6th from bottom is acceptable with the squad he already has.

It's what I expect, anything less will be under performaning.

We have lost clingan, Keogh, cranie. Platt Nimely Norwood mcpake. I know we haveost more but these boys are significant.

We have gained Malaga, Killer

IMO edge, Elliot, fleck, ball, Brown all have potential but will we really don't know what we will get.

Cody will get injured we need aotger goalscorer.

We don't have Norwoods replacement. So not one to keep the ball and create from cm.

Before we got killer and Malaga I though we had a chance if relegation. Now if we go down something would be really wrong.

But I can't see us going up without a hell of s lot of luck

Grendel · Jul 30, 2012

dongonzalos said:
It's what I expect, anything less will be under performaning.

We have lost clingan, Keogh, cranie. Platt Nimely Norwood mcpake. I know we haveost more but these boys are significant.

We have gained Malaga, Killer

IMO edge, Elliot, fleck, ball, Brown all have potential but will we really don't know what we will get.

Cody will get injured we need aotger goalscorer.

We don't have Norwoods replacement. So not one to keep the ball and create from cm.

Before we got killer and Malaga I though we had a chance if relegation. Now if we go down something would be really wrong.

But I can't see us going up without a hell of s lot of luck

That is well under-calling it. I expect top 6 minimum with this squad anything less will be really not acceptable. I suspect I will be in the majority on this one.

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