Birmingham incident (1 Viewer)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 7, 2020

SBT said:
We're wildly off topic here, but the idea that Blair/Boris etc are somehow constrained by the monarchy is obviously fantasy. The PM has just as much power as the French President has, and the Queen (quite rightly) does nothing to stand in the way of questionable wars or proroguing parliament. It's much more feasible and threatening that one of her strange offspring will decide to take a more pro-active role in politics in the future, and then you really have to start worrying about the balance of power.

Charles is far more politically active and outspoken than his mother, possibly because he's been allowed more freedom having not been head honcho (although the fact he would inevitably be it one day so have led to him being reeled in more). Whether he'll be able to contain that when he does take over will be interesting.

You'd hope that the entire family would have it drummed into them that any deviance from this path will result in the abolition of the monarchy and their cushy lifestyles that go with it so just keep schtum and enjoy the ride. But inevitably at some point you'll produce someone who will feel they deserve to exert their authority, esp when being brought up in an environment of privilege, sychophancy and being told that you're better than ordinary people.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Grendel said:
Of course you would, do you really see no abuse of privilege from President Blair. I’m sure you’d love to see Carrie as the First Lady - Macron is always pictured preening at a royal Palace. He thinks his an emporer anyway. I’m not a royalist but the system does work, you love Scandinavian governments don’t you? Lots of royalty there

I don’t like political celebrities in any case but at least Blair was elected-three times. What did any royal family do to get the fame and fortune? The system as you well know gives the family everything for doing nothing and the tourism argument has long been debunked

Nick · Sep 7, 2020

I've been missing politics discussions.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Nick said:
I've been missing politics discussions.

I wasn’t really trying to start one!

Grendel · Sep 7, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I don’t like political celebrities in any case but at least Blair was elected-three times. What did any royal family do to get the fame and fortune? The system as you well know gives the family everything for doing nothing and the tourism argument has long been debunked

Even the real Prime Minister under the Blair years - the dictator of thought Comrade Alistair Campbell was gushing in praise of the Queen and especially her speech regarding uniting the nation in these times of crises. The argument you make is pointless and is lost.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Sep 7, 2020

This thread has got a bit messy again. There is an arms war between left and right again it seems.

Yes, I believe some people have used this as a tool to vent their frustration against BLM etc, but there is no denying that this frustration is ignited by people denying the truth and throwing distractions off. 'Somalian' is trending on twitter today, why? Because the correct term for someone from Somalia is 'Somali'. It has now caused an argument. Again, why? Because it is easier to throw sand at something like that than actually talk about the truth. It is quite desperate.

People and organisations need to start being honest. This attack was horrendous and when I saw it was in the gay district I immediately thought it was a calculated act of violence rather than a gang turf war spilling out. I went to the arcadian and the gay district about three weeks ago and had a great night. I went to a bar there which (exactly as Nick said actually) was about 95% black people. Me and my mate looked well out of place but everyone was extremely friendly and the bouncers treated us with a lot of respect. It was a really nice experience. The gay district (just happened to be open the latest) was pretty cool too, and apart from being hit on by loads of blokes, was a real laugh as well.

I'm glad they have caught this guy, stabbing people in the neck is beyond barbaric.

Skybluefaz · Sep 7, 2020

Think this will eventually be confirmed as a terrorist incident committed by someone who was on another government watch list?

duffer · Sep 7, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
It's interesting you chose Blair rather than the current incumbent who's trying to ride roughshod over every bit of law he can when it suits him and denounce and decry any press or individual that hold him to scrutiny for 'fearmongering'.

I've said before I'm no fan of the monarchy but given that as head of state they have constitutional power but don't use it as they have no legitimacy from the people they're far less a danger than a President who would have that authority by election to change things in their favour. We see it all the time around the world (Russia) and the likes of Trump are trying their best to assert and increase their influence at every given opportunity.

Precisely this. Pointing at Blair whilst disregarding Boris is ludicrous.

This is the first Government in living memory that has attempted to avoid parliamentary scrutiny, broken parliamentary convention, and simultaneously proposed doing away with judicial review.

That might sound trivial if you’re not overly interested in politics or the law, but it’s a very scary development regardless of which side of the fence you sit if you believe in democracy and openness.

No executive power, whether wielded by either left or right, should be above scrutiny or the rule of law.

Our lack of a written constitution is a huge weakness when a Government decides that it’s so special that the unwritten rules and the legislative process no longer apply to them.

Boris is just a gurning, feckless idiot whose ambition far exceeds his ability, but some of the people around him are genuinely dangerous and clearly do not have the country’s best interests at heart.

wingy · Sep 7, 2020

Grendel said:
Even the real Prime Minister under the Blair years - the dictator of thought Comrade Alistair Campbell was gushing in praise of the Queen and especially her speech regarding uniting the nation in these times of crises. The argument you make is pointless and is lost.

Can we compare that era to this when it comes to parties within parties
IDK maybe it was ever thus .
I think you know string pulling from the top.
There's a huge void in the intellects between then and now?

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Grendel said:
Even the real Prime Minister under the Blair years - the dictator of thought Comrade Alistair Campbell was gushing in praise of the Queen and especially her speech regarding uniting the nation in these times of crises. The argument you make is pointless and is lost.

I completely disagree but will wait for a monarchy thread to appear

Evo1883 · Sep 7, 2020

In regards to the monarchy, I can't see the negative effect it has on anybody at all so don't feel the need to change something based off jealousy and resentment

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

wingy said:
Can we compare that era to this when it comes to parties within parties
IDK maybe it was ever thus .
I think you know string pulling from the top.
There's a huge void in the intellects between then and now?

Even monarchists will accept that you wouldn’t start off a brand new country with one. They will all eventually disappear but likely not in my lifetime

Ring Of Steel · Sep 7, 2020

Evo1883 said:
In regards to the monarchy, I can't see the negative effect it has on anybody at all so don't feel the need to change something based off jealousy and resentment

Tell that to Virginia Roberts & the rest

Evo1883 · Sep 7, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
Tell that to Virginia Roberts & the rest

A minority of People have been calling for the break up of the monarchy long before that... You can't use that now as an argument for something you've probably believed in long before... Andrew whilst a prick, isn't guilty of anything yet
How does the monarchy negatively effect your life? It doesn't
Ike previously mentioned, it's for another thread

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Evo1883 said:
A minority of People have been calling for the break up of the monarchy long before that... You can't use that now as an argument for something you've probably believed in long before... Andrew whilst a prick, isn't guilty of anything yet

He only had access to Epstein because he was a Royal. That same privilege also affords him access to the best legal teams and protection against even being asked about the connection. As an institution it represents power and influence gifted away for no good reason

Evo1883 · Sep 7, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He only had access to Epstein because he was a Royal. That same privilege also affords him access to the best legal teams and protection against even being asked about the connection. As an institution it represents power and influence gifted away for no good reason

But in what way does it effect your life that the royals have privelage, and in removing the monarchy how would it positively impact your life?

Ring Of Steel · Sep 7, 2020

Evo1883 said:
A minority of People have been calling for the break up of the monarchy long before that... You can't use that now as an argument for something you've probably believed in long before... Andrew whilst a prick, isn't guilty of anything yet

I'm not bothered either way, they are an irrelevance to me. But whichever way you slice it, an institution like that has no place in any forward looking country. As for Andrew- its pretty well known those allegations are just the tip of the iceberg with these people, he's not the first and he won't be the last to have these questions asked of him.

You won't find me campaigning to get them out, not concerned- but it is pathetic that an institution like that even exists in this day & age, even more so when you consider how much the public pay them each year when there are bloody foodbanks everywhere & we keep reading that the country is on its arse financially.

Evo1883 · Sep 7, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
I'm not bothered either way, they are an irrelevance to me. But whichever way you slice it, an institution like that has no place in any forward looking country. As for Andrew- its pretty well known those allegations are just the tip of the iceberg with these people, he's not the first and he won't be the last to have these questions asked of him.

You won't find me campaigning to get them out, not concerned- but it is pathetic that an institution like that even exists in this day & age, even more so when you consider how much the public pay them each year when there are bloody foodbanks everywhere & we keep reading that the country is on its arse financially.

The state of poverty etc in Britain doesn't fall at the queen's foot, its the government's who must shoulder the blame, it would still exist without the monarchy

Ring Of Steel · Sep 7, 2020

Evo1883 said:
The state of poverty etc in Britain doesn't fall at the queen's foot, its the government's who must shoulder the blame, it would still exist without the monarchy

We will forget the 41% increase in funding that the royals took in 2019, right up to £61m, and it will be more again this year as apparently the plumbing needs sorting in a few castles.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Evo1883 said:
But in what way does it effect your life that the royals have privelage, and in removing the monarchy how would it positively impact your life?

It affects society and I’m in it

Evo1883 · Sep 7, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It affects society and I’m in it

Disagree, it doesn't effect you or me, obviously you can choose to dislike it... But it's not affecting society

Either way you are well within your rights to dislike and want an end to the monarchy can't see it happening for a very long time

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Evo1883 said:
Disagree, it doesn't effect you or me, obviously you can choose to dislike it... But it's not affecting society

Either way you are well within your rights to dislike and want an end to the monarchy can't see it happening for a very long time

There are many things that don’t directly affect you or me but are still important issues. I don’t want the monarchy gone because I expect others to agree, it’s on principle

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Sep 7, 2020

What's the Birmingham murdering scumbag got to do with the monarchy, Epstein, Blair , Boris or anyone?
He didn't kill because he was hungary, poor or unemployed. He did it because he chose to.

This is not because of brexit, or because of left wing, right wing politics. If people are going to actually point the finger at this party, that party as being at the root cause of such action of one nutcase then it's just making excuses for him . He chose to kill and stab at random.
I hope he dies slowly and in as much pain as possible.

Grendel · Sep 7, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He only had access to Epstein because he was a Royal. That same privilege also affords him access to the best legal teams and protection against even being asked about the connection. As an institution it represents power and influence gifted away for no good reason

How did Bill Clinton have access to him then?

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Grendel said:
How did Bill Clinton have access to him then?

He got elected president-don’t really see your point

Grendel · Sep 7, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
He got elected president-don’t really see your point

so it’s not being a royal is it it’s power and influence that gains access

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Grendel said:
so it’s not being a royal is it it’s power and influence that gains access

And being a royal gives one power and influence

Grendel · Sep 7, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
And being a royal gives one power and influence

As does being a president - I have met four royals - one I sat next to for lunch and didn’t even know they were a royal. One was funny and another a good speaker. The other was a total arsehole - if we had a restricted system it’s not all bad

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Grendel said:
As does being a president - I have met four royals - one I sat next to for lunch and didn’t even know they were a royal. One was funny and another a good speaker. The other was a total arsehole - if we had a restricted system it’s not all bad

Right, all I'm saying is that Andrew has been given it by randomness of birth and without the monarchy and a huge list of hangers-on that come with them he wouldn't have had the access. I don't think doing away with it is that radical

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Sep 7, 2020

A Somali immigrant just caused what looks to be a terrorist attack round the corner.

Quick. Let's talk about Prince Andrew.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 7, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
A Somali immigrant just caused what looks to be a terrorist attack round the corner.

Quick. Let's talk about Prince Andrew.

Looks like it was more 'Quick. Let's say the left will defend him.'

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Sep 7, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Looks like it was more 'Quick. Let's say the left will defend him.'

Surely that qualifies my point then?

It will be good when more information comes out, if it does. Any comments on the attack for now though?

clint van damme · Sep 7, 2020

23 year old lad from Liverpool named as victim. Jacob Billington. RIP. Senseless loss of a young life.

Marty · Sep 7, 2020

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
A Somali immigrant just caused what looks to be a terrorist attack round the corner.

Quick. Let's talk about Prince Andrew.

Maybe it's one Linekar would like living with him.

shmmeee · Sep 8, 2020

Evo1883 said:
Mixed race if you're gunna signal that virtue do it properly

He says, virtue signalling.

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