Boils down to two possibilities ? (1 Viewer)

Hobo · Sep 27, 2013

To the people on here who say let SISU have the Ricoh or see SISU build their stadium and reunit the club as the way forward.

Some even think SISU will then sell....good.

Well think a little further down their game plan.

Seppala wants a return on her investors money, she wants revenue streams for them not CCFC. Debt (falsely inflated?) will be pipelined back to Arvo Masterfund while they are here and after they are gone. As we have seen pile on enough debt and you will always win an administration battle.

Seppala doesn't know football, but she does know real estate. As much she moans about ACL and CCC being unfair landlords, That is her goal. She wants out but, she wants to control the real estate and be in the position of the unfair landlord herself.

If you let SISU run with the ball it will be our downfall not our resurrection!

torchomatic · Sep 27, 2013

Hobo said:
To the people on here who say let SISU have the Ricoh or see SISU build their stadium and reunit the club as the way forward.

Some even think SISU will then sell....good.

Well think a little further down their game plan.

Seppala wants a return on her investors money, she wants revenue streams for them not CCFC. Debt (falsely inflated?) will be pipelined back to Arvo Masterfund while they are here and after they are gone. As we have seen pile on enough debt and you will always win an administration battle.

Seppala doesn't know football, but she does know real estate. As much she moans about ACL and CCC being unfair landlords, That is her goal. She wants out but, she wants to control the real estate and be in the position of the unfair landlord herself.

If you let SISU run with the ball it will be our downfall not our resurrection!

And for the zillionth time what will future owners want to get their hands on?

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

Covstu · Sep 27, 2013

skybluepete1987 said:
A response like this does frustrate me. I know there's huge debate around the value of the Ricoh and clearly its potential is much much greater than ACL have come close to in terms of their operation, but the pleas that SISU should be allowed to own the Ricoh seem to stem from passion for this madness to end rather than sound public stewardship which the council clearly have to try and be shown to achieve.

Just because SISU own the football club does not mean the public of Coventry (via 50% of ACL) should be held hostage to do their bidding and sell them what they want. Would any other council anywhere in Britain even consider selling an asset like the Ricoh to a company of SISU Capital's track record within the City?

Let's tick off some questions which any elected official acting in the public interest may want to consider if he was looking at selling anything from a park bench to a multi-acre site with sports stadium:

1) Does the business have a successful record of owning and running other similar companies or operations?
2) Does the business have a strong track record of acting in the best interests of local people with a sense of corporate responsibility?
3) Does the business have a transparent structure with clear accountability regarding investment and ownership?
4) Has the business consistently filed accounts on time?
5) Does the business currently face any pending actions from either HMRC or Companies House?

There's five, I'm sure there would be tens more. If you asked 100 Council tax payers whether the Council should sell even a park bench to a company which couldn't answer all of those questions with a positive answer then 100 would say no.

The Ricoh is an underachieving asset for the people of Coventry, not one which should be frittered away to a mob like Sisu who have shown disdain, malpractice and downright incompetence. Let them rot.

Appreciate the post but for me there is just one question:

1) Do we want Coventry City FC to play in Coventry again?

This is the only way that this is going to happen, if we build a new stadium it wont be in Coventry (as the council wont allow it) so this is the only feasible way of getting us back to Cov as SISU will not cut their losses and sell up. ACL/CCC/AH/Whoever equally might not want to sell up either so we are at a complete stalemate so who loses? Us the fans and probably both sides. Sad really!

Covstu · Sep 27, 2013

Hobo said:
To the people on here who say let SISU have the Ricoh or see SISU build their stadium and reunit the club as the way forward.

Some even think SISU will then sell....good.

Well think a little further down their game plan.

Seppala wants a return on her investors money, she wants revenue streams for them not CCFC. Debt (falsely inflated?) will be pipelined back to Arvo Masterfund while they are here and after they are gone. As we have seen pile on enough debt and you will always win an administration battle.

Seppala doesn't know football, but she does know real estate. As much she moans about ACL and CCC being unfair landlords, That is her goal. She wants out but, she wants to control the real estate and be in the position of the unfair landlord herself.

If you let SISU run with the ball it will be our downfall not our resurrection!

But no-one will buy a club without assets surely?

skybluelee · Sep 27, 2013

covcity4life said:
NOPM dont work, im gonna go sixfields soon

So you don't think the sudden charm offensive has anything to do with trying to win back lost supporters, many of whom are supporting NOPM?

Hobo · Sep 27, 2013

torchomatic said:
And for the zillionth time what will future owners want to get their hands on?

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

Okay Torch, what is their game plan as you see it? I am not saying that in a sarcastic way. I don't throw cheap insults around like some posters. I would love to have faith in our owners, but they don't inspire me with any confidence. But if you can do their job for them and show me the real SISU plan and fill me with confidence for the future...go ahead I'd love to stop worrying about my club.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Sep 27, 2013

Astute said:
So don't you find it strange that it has taken her 6 years to speak......and it is when the vast majority of our fans refuse to go again until we return to Coventry which is what she says we won't unless she gets the freehold for the price she says and NOPM? To me the losses are hurting them. Timothy has tried his best for her but to no avail.

If not then why do you think she has spoken at last after 6 years?

IMHO...Shes spoken now for several reasons:

1. To pressurise CCC/ACL into some sort of action
2. Because CCFC are currently playing their games in a shitty backwater.. she wanted to put her companies side of the story as to why we are where we are.
3. Because TF has been ineffective in his attempts to gain the fans trust.

These are financial people.....to believe they have suddenly shit themselves just because of 4 games worth of low attendences...which they clearly would have expected....is ludicrous.

I'm not saying that NOPM won't work eventually....in theory.....but 4 poorly attended games & a few chubby blokes not buying a shitty replica shirt will not have suddenly driven a publicity shy business leader to talk to the local rag....

Shes done it purely on her terms.....

torchomatic · Sep 27, 2013

Hobo, I know as much about SISU’s plan as you do. Nothing. However, I do know that I (that is me personally, I’m not talking for anyone else) wants to see my team play back at the Ricoh. Nothing else matters. For that to happen it seems (from JS) that she will only go back if we can buy into the Arena. I really can’t see the problem with that. Oh, I know we gets lots of people saying that if that happened then they would wind-up the Club, rub their grubby mits with glee and enjoy the riches the Ricoh has to offer. There’s no proof – as there’s no proof from me that it wouldn’t happen! However, as it stands we are playing in Northampton in front of crap crowds for probably five years. I can’t stand the thought of not seeing Coventry City for five years (the last two months have been bad enough), so one alternative is sell the Ricoh to SISU. CCC can put in all the caveats they wish to safeguard their “community asset”. That way everyone wins. If in the future someone wants to buy SISU out then these future owners will know exactly what they are getting.
I’m not a SISU fan, I like them as much as I like ACL but they are who we have in charge and the quickest way I can see us getting rid of them is to get us playing back in Coventry. Standing on a hill isn’t going to achieve that anymore than getting down on your knees and praying.
I care about CCFC, not SISU or ACL.

Hobo said:
Okay Torch, what is their game plan as you see it? I am not saying that in a sarcastic way. I don't throw cheap insults around like some posters. I would love to have faith in our owners, but they don't inspire me with any confidence. But if you can do their job for them and show me the real SISU plan and fill me with confidence for the future...go ahead I'd love to stop worrying about my club.

Big_Ben · Sep 27, 2013

dongonzalos said:
I think he said it looks like the current options for a way out wont happen and he thinks we will end up there for 5 years, so he is choosing NOMP to try and force other options into play

I think what he actually said was that he could only see two options, and wasn't prepared to go along with either of them so he was going to continue starving SISU out.

RegTheDonk · Sep 27, 2013

Mrpipes said:
NOPM is going to kill your club
Well done to all involved and enjoy supporting another team , you Work will be done
You are indeed cutting your noses off , and thanks to you taking your ball home , everyone else loses their team

You all seem to be reveling in it too strangely ??

Don't be a nob. Joy won't "kill" the club, like she said, she wants her £60m back.

And nobody is reveling in this, its a bloody dreadful situation.

torchomatic · Sep 27, 2013

Nope. Thousands of fans are staying away in protest at playing in Northampton. You don't have to hang an acronym on that to make it into some sort of exclusive club. NOPM and KCIC have nothing to do with the average fan who is pissed at not playing in Coventry. The campaigns won't make any difference. Only Joy and CCC can make the slightest difference. Even if those campaigns didn't exist the attendances would still be the same: shockingly low.

As for her interview, I think it has more to do with trying to pour scorn on ACL/CCC and their part in this sorry mess.

skybluelee said:
So you don't think the sudden charm offensive has anything to do with trying to win back lost supporters, many of whom are supporting NOPM?

covmark · Sep 27, 2013

torchomatic said:
OK, "community asset" blah-blah-blah, "corporate responsibility", blah-blah-blah. The important thing for CCFC is to play in Coventry, right? There is a stadium standing there empty, right? I think they say that nature abhors a vacuum, don't they? SISU won't be here for ever and the club will be a much more attractive proposition for any future buyer if we own our own stadium.

And a response like yours frustrates me. No thought for the club just ACL, CCC and council tax payers. When did CCFC fans suddenly start to care more about their local politicians than their team?

You want them to rot? Well, if they do then they will take Coventry City with them. How are all those who are determined for SISU not to get their "grubby mits" on the Ricoh going to feel if we go tits up. Smug because at least they didn't get to play in the stadium again.

I don't really give a fuck about your track records, best interests, politicians, accounts, investments and corporate reponsibilities. I care about Coventry City and I want to see them playing back in Coventry.

superb post!

Hobo · Sep 27, 2013

Torch we have a lot of common ground. Like you I would love to see us back at the Ricoh where we belong.

I take on board what you say about CCC being able to protect their asset. But Seppala does have a track record of saying I want that, and when she gets there she wants this and continually bargaining down. How do I know this? I know someone who has had business dealings with her and was totally exasperated by her...they could not fathom her business plan either like you and me.

To me it is not just about the rent row, if it was I would probably be on SISUs side. How easy would it have been for them to get the fans on board for that one. I see nothing in their structure or track record that gives me a glimmer of hope.

Sorry I have never trusted them from day one. I think any joy (no pun intended) with SISU will be short lived. I would love to be proven wrong.

torchomatic · Sep 27, 2013

I'm not disagreeing with you, Hobo. SISU have proved they conduct business is a pretty dubious way. However, I am thinking purely with my football head. I want Coventry back at the Ricoh and the only way I can see that happening is if SISU get a slice of the Arena. ACL tell us how desperate they are for us to come back home, so prove it. Do a deal, but load it with caveats so that CCC and their asset is protected.

Hobo said:
Torch we have a lot of common ground. Like you I would love to see us back at the Ricoh were we belong.

I take on board what you say about CCC being able to protect their asset. But Seppala does have a track record of saying I want that, and when she gets there she wants this and continually bargaining down. How do I know this? I know someone who has had business dealings with her and was totally exasperated by her...they could not fathom her business plan either like you and me.

To me it is not just about the rent row, if it was I would probably be on SISUs side. How easy would it have been for them to get the fans on board for that one. I see nothing in their structure or track record that gives me a glimmer of hope.

Sorry I have never trusted them from day one. I think any joy (no pun intended) with SISU will be short lived. I would love to be proven wrong.

dongonzalos · Sep 27, 2013

Big_Ben said:
I think what he actually said was that he could only see two options, and wasn't prepared to go along with either of them so he was going to continue starving SISU out.

Yes in his head creating a third option
As the other two wont happen so we will be in Northampton for many years

dongonzalos · Sep 27, 2013

torchomatic said:
I'm not disagreeing with you, Hobo. SISU have proved they conduct business is a pretty dubious way. However, I am thinking purely with my football head. I want Coventry back at the Ricoh and the only way I can see that happening is if SISU get a slice of the Arena. ACL tell us how desperate they are for us to come back home, so prove it. Do a deal, but load it with caveats so that CCC and their asset is protected.

Torch what do you think will happen if ACL begin talks with a realistic viable alternative that can cover their costs?

SkyblueBazza · Sep 27, 2013

Steve1974 said:
The ideal situation is SISU/otium sell up. Someone who ccc like sell the Ricoh and land to the same buyer. Now, is that going to happen? No.

So, what I would like to see instead is simple. Cov back in cov. At the Ricoh or a new ground, I don't care. Then in a couple of years time a nice rich dude comes along and takes over from SISU/otium. To me it's reasonable compromise.

SISU...reasonable...compromise...errr - that's not going happen then is it?

torchomatic · Sep 27, 2013

Then the Ricoh idea is dead and so is KCiC. Then we shall see if the new stadium idea is viable.

dongonzalos said:
Torch what do you think will happen if ACL begin talks with a realistic viable alternative that can cover their costs?

dongonzalos · Sep 27, 2013

torchomatic said:
Then the Ricoh idea is dead and so is KCiC. Then we shall see if the new stadium idea is viable.

I think it is at this point
SISU would again attempt to buy the Higgs share for its actual value.

I can't see what else they could do.

Question is can ACL find a viable alternative?

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 27, 2013

A couple of things I have noticed on this thread:

dongonzalos said:
So how long do you think it needs before you know if it worked or not?

I would suggest a season over a handful of home games.

I take it you don't think it had any impact on forcing Ms Seppela to acknowledge the fans for the first time in six years?

Dong Joy has only been involved in CCFC in the last two years from her position within SISU. A quote from yesterday's article in the CT 'Ms Seppala said she was not personally involved with Sisu Capital’s purchase of the football club in 2007. She said: “People did the due diligence and for all intents and purposes we took calculated risks.“What I can say definitively is that since I’ve become involved in the last two years I have not regretted any of the decisions that we’ve made.'

Steve1974 said:
The ideal situation is SISU/otium sell up. Someone who ccc like sell the Ricoh and land to the same buyer. Now, is that going to happen? No.

I am sure Steve your are assuming that the above comment I have quoted won't happen because SISU won't sell the club and so on, however there is no guarantee that even if SISU did sell the club that CCC would sell the ground to the new owner of the club. This is what we are led to believe will happen. PHIV was supposed to be buying the Ricoh 6 weeks ago from the Council and hasn't..

torchomatic · Sep 27, 2013

If they try and parachute in another sports team then they really are no better that SISU, are they? I think ACL have to be really careful how they handle things. Personally, I don't think the future looks good for them unless they can get CCFC back.

dongonzalos said:
Question is can ACL find a viable alternative?

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 27, 2013

dongonzalos said:
I think it is at this point
SISU would again attempt to buy the Higgs share for its actual value.

I can't see what else they could do.

Question is can ACL find a viable alternative?

We talk about viable alternatives, but which sports teams within 20 or so miles require a 32,000 Seater Stadium except CCFC?

Greggs · Sep 27, 2013

covcity4life said:
NOPM dont work, im gonna go sixfields soon

Hahahahaha........That was meant as a joke, right?

torchomatic · Sep 27, 2013

And how would the fans of that sports team feel about being relocated? About as happy as we are, I would presume.

RoboCCFC90 said:
We talk about viable alternatives, but which sports teams within 20 or so miles require a 32,000 Seater Stadium except CCFC?

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 27, 2013

torchomatic said:
And how would the fans of that sports team feel about being relocated? About as happy as we are, I would presume.

Within the City only Cov Rugby, Cov Speedway or Coventry Sphinx could really think about moving there and they don't need the Ricoh..

Someone mentioned previously a West-Midlands Super League team, but not heard more about that and as you say Torch if someone moved another sporting organisation out of Birmingham for instance to the Ricoh it's just the same as what as happened at CCFC.

The only possibility really is if Nuneaton get promoted and then Dong gets his wish of Nuneaton Sky Blues..

standupforcity · Sep 27, 2013

torchomatic said:
So, you'd rather stay in Northampton for 5 years, maybe for good, rather than see SISU own the Ricoh?

Off Nose Spite To Face Cut (rearrange letters accordingly)

CUT FACE OFF TO SPITE NOSE!! Give nose nowhere to go....other than Ricoh!!!

Mrpipes · Sep 27, 2013

RegTheDonk said:
Don't be a nob. Joy won't "kill" the club, like she said, she wants her £60m back.

And nobody is reveling in this, its a bloody dreadful situation.

So she makes 10 million from selling the players off , another 10 from any other asset ,
Loss making businesses don't make profits , it's a mass sell off because a business would rather loose 40 mil than 60 mil

He she thought she would get 60 mil back she wouldn't be selling so get that sum out your thick skull

Not one penny more will lead to the selling of every asset of the club and we'll be left with nothing

You can then say we did such a great job of killing our own club that we can blame ccc sisu acl fl and the fans

That's just my knob thoughts dickhead

Hobo · Sep 27, 2013

Torch,
Seppala/SISU have made a pretty strong stance..they won't do business with CCC unless on their terms. A bit like we won't buy the club unless all the shares are handed over to us (not sold to us remember).

So why shouldn't ACL 'parachute' a replacement in? They can't just let it stand as a white elephant. ACL still have the bigger asset...like any business it can be developed re structured...sold on. Don't be blinkered by its a football stadium and will always be.

Seppala Queen of Debt who has a reputation of playing hardball....well that is what she is doing. It doesn't mean she is on top or winning, it doesn't mean she has our best interests at heart.

ACL are playing hardball back....because I believe through trying to strike a deal with SISU over the last 6 years have lost faith in them. They assisted in us getting the Ricoh. They want it to be a football stadium...but not give it away, they want a return to, they also 'shepherd' people's money.

Meanwhile fans are caught in the middle. Some are also prepared to play hardball with SISU because they too have lost confidence in them

It's a dangerous game for both sides...but only SISU mention liquidation. ACL did bring prospective bidders to the table. SiSU covered their ass by loading the debt to them and put themselves in a no loose situation as regards being the successful bidders.

Remember Seppala regrets the investment, has no interest in football. Blames a rent agreement, doesn't believe the previous owners knew they had sold certain revenue rights, really? Well hang on SISU you bought us, didn't you know?

It's going to be a long slog...no one and I mean no one knows what the future holds.

Lets hope Elvis and the kids can bring a bit of cheer. Whether you support them home, away or both, or from an armchair...that is the customers choice.

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 27, 2013

Hobo said:
Torch,
Seppala/SISU have made a pretty strong stance..they won't do business with CCC unless on their terms. A bit like we won't buy the club unless all the shares are handed over to us (not sold to us remember).

So why shouldn't ACL 'parachute' a replacement in? They can't just let it stand as a white elephant. ACL still have the bigger asset...like any business it can be developed re structured...sold on. Don't be blinkered by its a football stadium and will always be.

Seppala Queen of Debt who has a reputation of playing hardball....well that is what she is doing. It doesn't mean she is on top or winning, it doesn't mean she has our best interests at heart.

ACL are playing hardball back....because I believe through trying to strike a deal with SISU over the last 6 years have lost faith in them. They assisted in us getting the Ricoh. They want it to be a football stadium...but not give it away, they want a return to, they also 'shepherd' people's money.

Meanwhile fans are caught in the middle. Some are also prepared to play hardball with SISU because they too have lost confidence in them

It's a dangerous game for both sides...but only SISU mention liquidation. ACL did bring prospective bidders to the table. SiSU covered their ass by loading the debt to them and put themselves in a no loose situation as regards being the successful bidders.

Remember Seppala regrets the investment, has no interest in football. Blames a rent agreement, doesn't believe the previous owners knew they had sold certain revenue rights, really? Well hang on SISU you bought us, didn't you know?

It's going to be a long slog...no one and I mean no one knows what the future holds.

Lets hope Elvis and the kids can bring a bit of cheer. Whether you support them home, away or both, or from an armchair...that is the customers choice.

Realisticly is there a suitable replacement that ACL could parachute in though that's the question?

Hobo · Sep 27, 2013

Maybe not, but I am sure there are other long term business models that could be persude and developed. I believe they have the bigger asset to work with long term.

RoboCCFC90 said:
Realisticly is there a suitable replacement that ACL could parachute in though that's the question?

RoboCCFC90 · Sep 27, 2013

Hobo said:
Maybe not, but I am sure there are other long term business models that could be persude and developed. I believe they have the bigger asset to work with long term.

ACL can't afford long term right now though unfortunately they need to find a tennant who will meet their needs as quickly as possible IMO..

torchomatic · Sep 27, 2013

Normally I would agree with you, but really what else can they do with a football stadium? It doesn't have the pull of "part-time" stadia such as those in Cardiff, etc and no sports team is stupid enough to relocate to somewhere it doesn't have any ties with is it...er, ignore that bit. Seriously though, what are they going to do with the big green bit in the middle. It would cost a fortune to roof it and convert it to a concert venue and anyway we don't have the climate for 365 outdoor concerts. And is the future of the Ricoh really going to be secured by Physic Sally, wedding fayres and car boots? Maybe we should ask Physic Sally. She'd know.

Madness on both sides.

Hobo said:
Maybe not, but I am sure there are other long term business models that could be persude and developed. I believe they have the bigger asset to work with long term.

Hobo · Sep 27, 2013

torchomatic said:
Normally I would agree with you, but really what else can they do with a football stadium? It doesn't have the pull of "part-time" stadia such as those in Cardiff, etc and no sports team is stupid enough to relocate to somewhere it doesn't have any ties with is it...er, ignore that bit. Seriously though, what are they going to do with the big green bit in the middle. It would cost a fortune to roof it and convert it to a concert venue and anyway we don't have the climate for 365 outdoor concerts. And is the future of the Ricoh really going to be secured by Physic Sally, wedding fayres and car boots? Maybe we should ask Physic Sally. She'd know.

Madness on both sides.

I am not saying this is the best option. But just as Seppala can attract other people to invest in a new build, why can't ACL attract investors for redevelopment. Do you think when Man City sold Main Road they were scratching their heads who wants a large Football Stadium in Manchester apart from us and United? I think the answer is no. Loads of football grounds have been redeveloped. It's an option that's all I am saying...SISU are not the be all and end all and not in the driving seat as much as people think after one press release from The Queen of debt.

torchomatic · Sep 27, 2013

No, because they demolished Maine Road. Yes, loads of football grounds have been redeveloped. Look at HR , A nice new build estate. I really can't see a viable future for the Ricoh without us. Who is going to pay for any redevelopment if the future is going to be without CCFC?

Hobo said:
I am not saying this is the best option. But just as Seppala can attract other people to invest in a new build, why can't ACL attract investors for redevelopment. Do you think when Man City sold Main Road they were scratching their heads who wants a large Football Stadium in Manchester apart from us and United? I think the answer is no. Loads of football grounds have been redeveloped. It's an option that's all I am saying...SISU are not the be all and end all and not in the driving seat as much as people think after one press release from The Queen of debt.

Astute · Sep 27, 2013

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
IMHO...Shes spoken now for several reasons:

1. To pressurise CCC/ACL into some sort of action
2. Because CCFC are currently playing their games in a shitty backwater.. she wanted to put her companies side of the story as to why we are where we are.
3. Because TF has been ineffective in his attempts to gain the fans trust.

These are financial people.....to believe they have suddenly shit themselves just because of 4 games worth of low attendences...which they clearly would have expected....is ludicrous.

I'm not saying that NOPM won't work eventually....in theory.....but 4 poorly attended games & a few chubby blokes not buying a shitty replica shirt will not have suddenly driven a publicity shy business leader to talk to the local rag....

Shes done it purely on her terms.....

You are either on a wind up or are no good at maths.

Joy has said that she will need to lend the money to build a new stadium. Are we agreed on this?

It is about much more than a few fat blokes on a hill. It is about thousands of fat blokes that refuse to go to Northampton. Their income from CCFC is down by a few million a year. This move could last 5 years. 5 years by 3 million a year is £15,000,000. This is half the cost of a new stadium they don't have the money for. Yet you say it don't make any difference to her. £15,000,000 would hurt most companies. But she won't say so will she?

The move has gone badly wrong for her. Our attendances are only half of what their lowest estimate was. Timothy was certainly wrong. And this is during good weather whilst playing well.

Boils down to two possibilities ? (1 Viewer)

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