Bolton Latest Announcement

[CanadianCCFC]

It’s one option of several. Right now it would just be nice to fix the problems in this country

English football will never be salary capped unless La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A etc are too. For it to happen it would need to be organized by FIFA or UEFA.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I'm saying that it seems that people now seem to have got as much footy as they want or have time to watch. It's only anecdotal but there seems to be a lot more people who're deciding to get rid of their Sky Sports packages.

The rights packages are more spread out between providers than before partly due to it being unaffordable to buy them all. It's the fact there are so many channels now wanting to have the rights that is keeping the prices high. There is the competition argument but the fact is it isn't competition, it's extra cost for the consumer. The games shown on Sky are different to those on BT etc.

There will be a lag time and at the moment the tv deals are maintaining and slightly increased in value but it will become unsustainable. I doubt we'll see a catastrophic ITV Digital situation. I remember when Italian football was a massive thing and considered the best in Europe. Now almost no-one gives a fuck.

 

[Magwitch]

Have relatives Bolton way all Bolton fans and this expulsion possibility won’t be a surprise to them, their position has been dire for a few years, relegation from the Premiership has killed them, that scenario needs looking at even at Government level. But then what can be done when failure which let’s be honest relegation is still gets over a 100 million prize money, that’s what it is, and two years or is it three, parachute payments again over a 100 million and people wonder why dodgepot entrepreneurs often foreign based want a piece of the action for a while. This could be the domino effect that’s been predicted for a while.
Now the Bury example will be interesting obviously don’t know who this London based group buying into the club are and I sincerely hope they are genuine, but they will have to be looked into by the EFL to see if they are ‘fit and proper’ and if the EFL don’t like what they see, what then? probably bye bye Bury.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

The worry the premier league will have us that the bottom teams just keep saving the money they get just in case they go down so the product will get worse.

Bolton and Bury have both been given longer than they should have been already, Appleton has not covered himself in glory in this one either don’t think we will be seeing his smug face for a good while.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The worry the premier league will have us that the bottom teams just keep saving the money they get just in case they go down so the product will get worse.

Bolton and Bury have both been given longer than they should have been already, Appleton has not covered himself in glory in this one either don’t think we will be seeing his smug face for a good while.

That's the problem though isn't it. IMO the sensible thing to do is to bank a fair proportion of that money for the future and not take on massive financial risks and commitments, but relegation is pretty much assured within a season or two and then the fans and pundits are saying "they didn't invest" and you've got fans on the teams and managers back and calling for you to sell the club, creating a negative mindset around the club and potentially starting a losing mentality and spiral of decline. The PL also don't want that because as you said it affects the product.

Or you spend it on big transfer fees and wages (often on quite mediocre players) in the hope you'll stay up, just to have to go through the same thing again year after year until inevitably one year if fails. Then you're relegated with almost no financial buffer and big spending commitments on transfers and salaries in the future, creating an added financial problem on top of the problems on the pitch exacerbated by the fire sale of high earners and sale of good players to meet those commitments. PL much prefer this because their product remains high but when it goes wrong you're an EFL club who's spent beyond their means, not a PL one. Never acknowledging that the reason they spent beyond their means in the first place was because they got to the PL and were almost forced into doing so, spending tens of millions on Jorge Mediocre and Jose Average on over a hundred grand a week.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

While I'm on my soapbox yet again, I think it's about time we stopped taking footballers salaries in terms of £x per week. Obviously tens or even hundreds of thousands a week are still massive amounts, but it doesn't seem as much as it actually is. Let's talk footballer salaries like most normal jobs - per annum.

For example, you say someone is on £20k per week it seems a fair whack. Say it as £1.04m a year and it feels more. That's a half decent sized company CEO level of pay. And there are players in the championship on more than double that.

 

[Grendel]

While I'm on my soapbox yet again, I think it's about time we stopped taking footballers salaries in terms of £x per week. Obviously tens or even hundreds of thousands a week are still massive amounts, but it doesn't seem as much as it actually is. Let's talk footballer salaries like most normal jobs - per annum.

For example, you say someone is on £20k per week it seems a fair whack. Say it as £1.04m a year and it feels more. That's a half decent sized company CEO level of pay. And there are players in the championship on more than double that.

Does it really matter? If market forces command the wage honestly so what?

 

[Grendel]

I'm saying that it seems that people now seem to have got as much footy as they want or have time to watch. It's only anecdotal but there seems to be a lot more people who're deciding to get rid of their Sky Sports packages.

The rights packages are more spread out between providers than before partly due to it being unaffordable to buy them all. It's the fact there are so many channels now wanting to have the rights that is keeping the prices high. There is the competition argument but the fact is it isn't competition, it's extra cost for the consumer. The games shown on Sky are different to those on BT etc.

There will be a lag time and at the moment the tv deals are maintaining and slightly increased in value but it will become unsustainable. I doubt we'll see a catastrophic ITV Digital situation. I remember when Italian football was a massive thing and considered the best in Europe. Now almost no-one gives a fuck.

The last two deals have collectively risen by 70%

The general belief is it will next time round escalate massively with streaming services joining the bidding war

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The last two deals have collectively risen by 70%

The general belief is it will next time round escalate massively with streaming services joining the bidding war

As I said it's the increase in channels/providers creating a bidding war and different services like streaming creating new packages for them to flog that are keeping the prices high. In terms of people actually watching it's saturated - everyone who wants to watch football is watching football and a few are starting to watch less because it's just everywhere all the time.

I shall add in the caveat that this is in this country. Abroad the demand is still strong.

Going into the future, I think that either the big clubs will get their way and it'll be selling your own viewing rights or it'll be a streaming service with every game available and income split proportionally to each team based on viewing figures.

 

[Philosoraptor]

If we go up this season I reckon we'll be Premier contenders in two/three seasons after this one.

 

[Philosoraptor]

To climb the championship should take around three seasons... Perhaps two...

 

[Nick]

What's today's deadline about?

From what I have read it looks as if there's a buyer for the hotel and a buyer for the club? The bloke from the hotel wants the club too but he isn't the preferred bidder?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Machiavellian business stuff. Last minutes deals etc. Ethics isn't going to come into this. Two parties fighting over something and they will use all their clout to get it. Including going to the final minutes before liquidation.

Look at Bury when they announced that they had sold the club with a few minutes left to the deadline.

 

[clint van damme]

That's the problem though isn't it. IMO the sensible thing to do is to bank a fair proportion of that money for the future and not take on massive financial risks and commitments, but relegation is pretty much assured within a season or two and then the fans and pundits are saying "they didn't invest" and you've got fans on the teams and managers back and calling for you to sell the club, creating a negative mindset around the club and potentially starting a losing mentality and spiral of decline. The PL also don't want that because as you said it affects the product.

Or you spend it on big transfer fees and wages (often on quite mediocre players) in the hope you'll stay up, just to have to go through the same thing again year after year until inevitably one year if fails. Then you're relegated with almost no financial buffer and big spending commitments on transfers and salaries in the future, creating an added financial problem on top of the problems on the pitch exacerbated by the fire sale of high earners and sale of good players to meet those commitments. PL much prefer this because their product remains high but when it goes wrong you're an EFL club who's spent beyond their means, not a PL one. Never acknowledging that the reason they spent beyond their means in the first place was because they got to the PL and were almost forced into doing so, spending tens of millions on Jorge Mediocre and Jose Average on over a hundred grand a week.

was thinking along these lines myself today when listening to the radio.
Plenty of people slating the EFL, and I don't think very highly of them myself, but over spending in, or in attempting to get to, the PL is the cause of a lot of the issues, (obviously not in the case of Bury).

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Does it really matter? If market forces command the wage honestly so what?

Maybe not, but it brings into focus the discrepancy between how much footballers are paid and average people by doing a direct comparison. Let's say someone like Hickman was on say £40-50k a year, it seems like a lot for what is the equivalent of the office junior . Say he's on £800-900 per week and it doesn't seem so much. We often talk about alledged transfer fees and whether they're VFM on here (Baka, Hiwula, Chaplin, Godden etc). Player wages are a massive continual part of our outgoings and are far more likely to result in financial problems.

I've no problem with the players accepting contracts offered to them and earning high wages due to the money being there - they deserve the lions share as they're what make the product. I'm not even going to complain at agents for trying to get them those contracts - that's their job (I'm bothered when they chase big bucks for short term gain at the detriment to a players development though). The problem is so many clubs, especially in the lower leagues, are living very close to the edge and even the PL teams are one relegation away from massive potential problems.

It's more about making those in the boardroom more accountable for their decisions to offer these contracts and whether they're affordable for the club. Trouble is chances are fans would just have a go at the players for those earnings instead of those stupid enough to offer them in the first place.

 

[Nick]

It's more about making those in the boardroom more accountable for their decisions to offer these contracts and whether they're affordable for the club. Trouble is chances are fans would just have a go at the players for those earnings instead of those stupid enough to offer them in the first place.

What about when clubs refuse to pay players what they demand and people shout about ambition?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If we go up this season I reckon we'll be Premier contenders in two/three seasons after this one.

Is that based on Glicko?

Or more likely vodka?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Is that based on Glicko?

Or more likely vodka?

From what I can tell the club is making good progress but it is very early days yet to be fully sure of how much.

There's still a lot of volatility in everything though.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What about when clubs refuse to pay players what they demand and people shout about ambition?

Exactly. Fans, including me at times, want the club to show ambition. We want to be signing decent players (or just signing players as many on here seem to get a bit narked if we go more than 10 days off season without signing someone). We want to be keeping our best ones. But then when the chickens come home to roost and the clubs in deep peril we're complaining about the owners either not investing or spending unwisely and putting a historic club and community asset at risk. Think the BR regime.

It's why even if I had the resources I'd never own a football club under these conditions. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I know I'd be unpopular with fans because I'd be prudent, but I'd also make sure there was still a club there for them to support when I'd gone.

 

[CanadianCCFC]

If we go up this season I reckon we'll be Premier contenders in two/three seasons after this one.

To climb the championship should take around three seasons... Perhaps two...

Take off the sky blue tinted glasses. Then put down the sky blue tinted telescope (maybe it’s better to do those in the opposite order but I couldn’t start with the telescope I’d lose the effect). There’s no way that’s true.

 

[Sick Boy]

If we go up this season I reckon we'll be Premier contenders in two/three seasons after this one.

No way, we would do well to not get relegated back down to League 1, the Championship is very different now in terms of the amount the top teams spend compared to when we were last there.

 

[Philosoraptor]

No way, we would do well to not get relegated back down to League 1, the Championship is very different now in terms of the amount the top teams spend compared to when we were last there.

Didn't we all say the same thing when we got promoted to division 1 - to survive.

Yet we came eighth.

Does anyone know the rating the winners of division one finished on last season, and how far we are off that?

 

[Grendel]

Exactly. Fans, including me at times, want the club to show ambition. We want to be signing decent players (or just signing players as many on here seem to get a bit narked if we go more than 10 days off season without signing someone). We want to be keeping our best ones. But then when the chickens come home to roost and the clubs in deep peril we're complaining about the owners either not investing or spending unwisely and putting a historic club and community asset at risk. Think the BR regime.

It's why even if I had the resources I'd never own a football club under these conditions. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. I know I'd be unpopular with fans because I'd be prudent, but I'd also make sure there was still a club there for them to support when I'd gone.

In our case of course the council do not even value the football club as a community asset

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

In our case of course the council do not even value the football club as a community asset

It’s madness as plenty of money is being spent in Birmingham now

 

[Sick Boy]

Didn't we all say the same thing when we got promoted to division 1 - to survive.

Yet we came eighth.

Does anyone know the rating the winners of division one finished on last season, and how far we are off that?

There’s a huge gap between the top of League 1 and the Championship, much more than than the top of league 1 and 2

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There’s a huge gap between the top of League 1 and the Championship, much more than than the top of league 1 and 2

Having a billionaire is par for the course in the top flight and having a tycoon is nearly par for the course to compete in the higher end of the Championship. Of course G loves it

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s madness as plenty of money is being spent in Birmingham now

I think a bit more is being spent in Birmingham than would be if we played in Coventry, because it feels more like a day out or away game. My neighbours are now going on the train to Brum and having something to eat and drink on the walk to/from the stadium. At the Ricoh they'd park up, watch the game, get in the car and go home. There's arguably more in terms of variety available as well in terms of pubs as it's a bit more accessible from the city centre, but that would probably just spread the spend out rather than generate extra - here it's concentrated in places like the casino, Burger King and Tesco's.

Not that any money people spend in Birmingham that could be being spent in Coventry is acceptable.

I think we're getting some F&B income aren't we (correct me if I'm wrong)? If so are people choosing to eat and drink more in the stadium to benefit the club rather than in the local area?

I assume those pubs in Coventry that have coaches running come back ASAP so those on the coach get their post-match pint and grub at their establishment.

 

[Grendel]

Having a billionaire is par for the course in the top flight and having a tycoon is nearly par for the course to compete in the higher end of the Championship. Of course G loves it

Juvenile as ever. Where is Burnley’s tycoon out of interest

 

[Nick]

I think a bit more is being spent in Birmingham than would be if we played in Coventry, because it feels more like a day out or away game. My neighbours are now going on the train to Brum and having something to eat and drink on the walk to/from the stadium. At the Ricoh they'd park up, watch the game, get in the car and go home. There's arguably more in terms of variety available as well in terms of pubs as it's a bit more accessible from the city centre, but that would probably just spread the spend out rather than generate extra - here it's concentrated in places like the casino, Burger King and Tesco's.

Not that any money people spend in Birmingham that could be being spent in Coventry is acceptable.

I think we're getting some F&B income aren't we (correct me if I'm wrong)? If so are people choosing to eat and drink more in the stadium to benefit the club rather than in the local area?

I assume those pubs in Coventry that have coaches running come back ASAP so those on the coach get their post-match pint and grub at their establishment.

You can see it walking up to the ground, there are pubs that are full of city fans. Burger vans out making money around the ground as well. I can't remember the last time I saw a burger van anywhere near the Ricoh on a matchday, it was a good few years ago.

There's the bar at the ground by the entrance and then the kiosks inside the ground.

The local pubs there actually seem to be going out of their way to make an effort and get city fans in there, putting DJs on etc and trying to get people in there spending money.

The fact there isn't a parking ban on matchdays also makes a fair bit of difference.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Juvenile as ever. Where is Burnley’s tycoon out of interest

Pot kettle black as ever. Burnley are a rare exception to a general rule. Which is it to be-obscene overspending is good for the game or not?

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

You can see it walking up to the ground, there are pubs that are full of city fans. Burger vans out making money around the ground as well. I can't remember the last time I saw a burger van anywhere near the Ricoh on a matchday, it was a good few years ago.

There's the bar at the ground by the entrance and then the kiosks inside the ground.

The local pubs there actually seem to be going out of their way to make an effort and get city fans in there, putting DJs on etc and trying to get people in there spending money.

The fact there isn't a parking ban on matchdays also makes a fair bit of difference.

I would imagine the burger bans struggled to get licences in the hope it pushed people inside to eat the overpriced crap that was available in the Ricoh

 

[oldskyblue58]

Potential buyers at bury have pulled out. Doesn't look good for the shakers

 

[oldskyblue58]

Feel sorry for the Bolton and Bury fans there but for the grace of god could have been us

However I dont agree that a football club should be a special case when it comes to running a failing business. Cant think of any other failing companies who can circumvent paying its creditors by invoking something like the football creditors rules. That rule should not exist and as harsh as it sounds football needs a shake up where some more clubs go bust. Fans go on about their football community being destroyed but what about the smaller businesses these poorly run clubs send to the wall, the livelihoods ruined by these football ego trips etc. There is no reason for football creditors rule other than inept rank poor governance and dismal clueless management of clubs. At some point the football authorities need to bite the bullet and properly sort the whole house of cards out

 

[Paul Anthony]

So that means in 50 minutes, we could be 2 clubs down in League One. What a mess.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Feel sorry for the Bolton and Bury fans there but for the grace of god could have been us

However I dont agree that a football club should be a special case when it comes to running a failing business. Cant think of any other failing companies who can circumvent paying its creditors by invoking something like the football creditors rules. That rule should not exist and as harsh as it sounds football needs a shake up where some more clubs go bust. Fans go on about their football community being destroyed but what about the smaller businesses these poorly run clubs send to the wall, the livelihoods ruined by these football ego trips etc. There is no reason for football creditors rule other than inept rank poor governance and dismal clueless management of clubs. At some point the football authorities need to bite the bullet and properly sort the whole house of cards out

Agree entirely with this point. Having the football creditors rule exacerbates rash spending on transfers because they have a level of indemnity. I'm not sure how a governing bodies laws can supercede the laws of the land.

Imagine if say the pork industry demanded that all suppliers of pigs should be paid first? Wouldn't stand up in court for a moment.

Do you know if HMRC or anyone has ever challenged the football creditors rule, and if so what reasoning was given for it being allowed (I assume they'd have lost seeing as the rule is still in place)?