Bottling plan A not rent is the real issue (1 Viewer)

dongonzalos · Oct 10, 2013

...............Westwood
Keogh... Dann...Turner.....Fox
.Baker......Gunner Bigi ......Henderson(any other loanee)

...................Best King.............

Anyone bet against this team getting promoted to the premiership.

SISU's plan A was invest get a quick promotion to the prem sell, hence they were not too concerned about their long term rent agreements at the time of due diligence.

They ran scared from this plan and the above were either sold or allowed to run their contracts down.

The cost of Plan B when you consider the cost over the last couple of years and the cost of relegation. Added on top of that the proposed investment over the next 5 years.

The idiot who made to decision to divert from Plan A here is the problem not rent.

Nick · Oct 10, 2013

The thing is though, you don't really have a choice when people run their contracts down. You can't hold a gun to their head....

bigfatronssba · Oct 10, 2013

Nick said:
The thing is though, you don't really have a choice when people run their contracts down. You can't hold a gun to their head....

Strange how its always Coventry City who can't hold on to their best players. I know other clubs lose some of theirs as well, but we lost all of ours. Not one of "the gems" had a contact renewal.

ccfcway · Oct 10, 2013

Baker has, hasnt he ?

dongonzalos · Oct 10, 2013

Nick said:
The thing is though, you don't really have a choice when people run their contracts down. You can't hold a gun to their head....

I totally agree with what you are saying

However during this time we made a decision not to invest at the going rate.

Westwood for example asked for contract negotiations we refused until it was too late.

bigfatronssba · Oct 10, 2013

ccfcway said:
Baker has, hasnt he ?

I like Baker but do you think he's premiership quality?

Nick · Oct 10, 2013

dongonzalos said:
I totally agree with what you are saying

However during this time we made a decision not to invest at the going rate.

Westwood for example asked for contract negotiations we refused until it was too late.

How much does he get paid at Sunderland? Isn't it a LOT more.

All clubs in our position lose players who run down their contracts to move on, I don't think Agents help the situation.

I think at the time the player side wasn't handled very well but since Waggot has come in he seems to have done quite well on that side but we can't sit and grumble about past players, if they are "gems" they were always going to move on for more wages we could ever offer them.

Nick · Oct 10, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
I like Baker but do you think he's premiership quality?

That is why the ones who are now in the premiership are there, on premiership wages that we could never offer...

dongonzalos · Oct 10, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
I like Baker but do you think he's premiership quality?

I think he would have been part of a team that could have got promotion to the premiership.

Unfortunately only a handful would be good enough for the prem as with most promoted teams.

dongonzalos · Oct 10, 2013

Nick said:
How much does he get paid at Sunderland? Isn't it a LOT more.

All clubs in our position lose players who run down their contracts to move on, I don't think Agents help the situation.

I think at the time the player side wasn't handled very well but since Waggot has come in he seems to have done quite well on that side but we can't sit and grumble about past players, if they are "gems" they were always going to move on for more wages we could ever offer them.

No we could not afford what he is on now. However he can to us saying he wanted to increase and extend his contract before the likes of Sunderland came sniffing our poor financial decision making worked out well for him.

Nick · Oct 10, 2013

What you are suggesting though is that we threw lots of money we didn't have at players on the chance of getting promoted?

Do you really think Westwood or his agent are stupid though? At first whiff of Premier League teams his agent would have been all over it.

wince · Oct 10, 2013

What you are suggesting though is that we threw lots of money we didn't have at players on the chance of getting promoted?

Do you really think Westwood or his agent are stupid though? At first whiff of Premier League teams his agent would have been all over it.

And we would have got a fee for him

Nick · Oct 10, 2013

wince said:
And we would have got a fee for him

I guess it depends, don't they sometimes run it down to get a large signing on fee?

dongonzalos · Oct 10, 2013

Nick said:
What you are suggesting though is that we threw lots of money we didn't have at players on the chance of getting promoted?

Do you really think Westwood or his agent are stupid though? At first whiff of Premier League teams his agent would have been all over it.

What I am suggesting is that,
that was SISU's original plan and the fact they deviated away from it is why we were relegated and is why we are where are now. Not rent that was 800k a year more expensive than it should have been.

I am also suggesting that the cost of relegation and SISU's new plan over the next 5 years will cost more than what it would have cost back then to complete plan A.

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 10, 2013

dongonzalos said:
...............Westwood
Keogh... Dann...Turner.....Fox
.Baker......Gunner Bigi ......Henderson(any other loanee)

...................Best King.............

Anyone bet against this team getting promoted to the premiership.

SISU's plan A was invest get a quick promotion to the prem sell, hence they were not too concerned about their long term rent agreements at the time of due diligence.

They ran scared from this plan and the above were either sold or allowed to run their contracts down.

The cost of Plan B when you consider the cost over the last couple of years and the cost of relegation. Added on top of that the proposed investment over the next 5 years.

The idiot who made to decision to divert from Plan A here is the problem not rent.

The theory is incorrect Dong I am afraid.

chiefdave · Oct 10, 2013

Nick said:
The thing is though, you don't really have a choice when people run their contracts down. You can't hold a gun to their head....

What we don't know is how many players chose to run down their contracts as they perceived their to be a lack of ambition from the owners. The tipping point was probably when they sold Dann and Fox. If I was a player then that would have signaled to me that any aim of investing, and by investing I don't mean going crazy, to get into the prem was gone. Most of those players were fairly young when they left and if they thought we were ambitious may well have been persuaded to stay for a couple of years knowing it wasn't their last chance at a big contract.

Sky Blue Kid · Oct 10, 2013

Dongo....I totally agree with what you are saying However during this time we made a decision not to invest at the going rate. Westwood for example asked for contract negotiations we refused until it was too late..................................................................................I've always said this, but I'm SBK so I must be wrong!

fernandopartridge · Oct 10, 2013

bigfatronssba said:
I like Baker but do you think he's premiership quality?

He isn't even Championship quality

jimmyhillsfanclub · Oct 10, 2013

dongonzalos said:
...............Westwood
Keogh... Dann...Turner.....Fox
.Baker......Gunner Bigi ......Henderson(any other loanee)

...................Best King.............

Anyone bet against this team getting promoted to the premiership.

SISU's plan A was invest get a quick promotion to the prem sell, hence they were not too concerned about their long term rent agreements at the time of due diligence.

They ran scared from this plan and the above were either sold or allowed to run their contracts down.

The cost of Plan B when you consider the cost over the last couple of years and the cost of relegation. Added on top of that the proposed investment over the next 5 years.

The idiot who made to decision to divert from Plan A here is the problem not rent.

If we hadn't sold Ian Wallace......blah blah

If UEFA hadn't staged a final at Heysel.......blah blah

If Bryan Richardson hadn't taken his "punt".....blah blah...

....And If ants were the size of dogs.....they'd rule the fucking world!

fernandopartridge · Oct 10, 2013

dongonzalos said:
What I am suggesting is that,
that was SISU's original plan and the fact they deviated away from it is why we were relegated and is why we are where are now. Not rent that was 800k a year more expensive than it should have been.

I am also suggesting that the cost of relegation and SISU's new plan over the next 5 years will cost more than what it would have cost back then to complete plan A.

SISU's plan was to buy players, develop and sell on, with one of the other outputs being that we'd get promoted in the meantime.

They didn't divert from this as such for a couple of years, instead they put a pair of complete fucking buffoons in charge of the job, Chris Coleman and Ray Ranson.

You've got to remember that some of the players you name in that 11 were signed AFTER some of the others on there had left. So it'd probably fair to say that SISU did attempt to maintain the quality of the squad in some places.

Sky Blue Kid · Oct 10, 2013

@ Nick...I'll say to you what i'm always havint to say to Torchy...Read ALL of what someone posts, rather than "Cherry pick", Westwood asked for a contract extention, well before Hoofroyd finally offered him one. SISU got what they deserved from Westwood, with his refusal.

italiahorse · Oct 10, 2013

Nick said:
The thing is though, you don't really have a choice when people run their contracts down. You can't hold a gun to their head....

They only run them down when they have not been offered a deal to there liking
Plus they perceive that the club management has no ambition and want to move on to someone that does.
Most those players were playing against the like of Cardiff/Southampton a few seasons ago. Turner and Gunna and Fox etc made the right decision.

fernandopartridge · Oct 10, 2013

Sky Blue Kid said:
@ Nick...I'll say to you what i'm always havint to say to Torchy...Read ALL of what someone posts, rather than "Cherry pick", Westwood asked for a contract extention, well before Hoofroyd finally offered him one. SISU got what they deserved from Westwood, with his refusal.

Is it Hoofroyd your blaming or SISU? Why didn't Westwood sign his new contract if he was actually desperate to stay?

torchomatic · Oct 10, 2013

Really? I thought other teams also lost players. I didn't realise it was just us. Ooh, I'm cross now.

bigfatronssba said:
Strange how its always Coventry City who can't hold on to their best players. I know other clubs lose some of theirs as well, but we lost all of ours. Not one of "the gems" had a contact renewal.

torchomatic · Oct 10, 2013

You're deluded.

Sky Blue Kid said:
@ Nick...I'll say to you what i'm always havint to say to Torchy...Read ALL of what someone posts, rather than "Cherry pick", Westwood asked for a contract extention, well before Hoofroyd finally offered him one. SISU got what they deserved from Westwood, with his refusal.

Sky Blue Kid · Oct 10, 2013

@ fernandopartridge.....In the main I blame SISU, but Hoofroyd comes a close second. Westwood is a really nice guy, but when you get "Dissed" by anyone, you'll retaliate. The contract extention was offered many months after it was requested(Approx 3-4 months) by this time Westy made up his mind to just "See out" his contract. What would you have done on hearing Hoorfroyd's reply to the question "Have you spoken to Westwood about his contract extention yet?" "AB...No I haven't bumped into him on the training ground yet!"

dongonzalos · Oct 10, 2013

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
If we hadn't sold Ian Wallace......blah blah

If UEFA hadn't staged a final at Heysel.......blah blah

If Bryan Richardson hadn't taken his "punt".....blah blah...

....And If ants were the size of dogs.....they'd rule the fucking world!

Depends in the breed of dog surely?

dongonzalos · Oct 10, 2013

fernandopartridge said:
SISU's plan was to buy players, develop and sell on, with one of the other outputs being that we'd get promoted in the meantime.

They didn't divert from this as such for a couple of years, instead they put a pair of complete fucking buffoons in charge of the job, Chris Coleman and Ray Ranson.

You've got to remember that some of the players you name in that 11 were signed AFTER some of the others on there had left. So it'd probably fair to say that SISU did attempt to maintain the quality of the squad in some places.

That's a bloody good argument and the first time I have seen you put together more than a one line put down.

dongonzalos · Oct 10, 2013

italiahorse said:
They only run them down when they have not been offered a deal to there liking
Plus they perceive that the club management has no ambition and want to move on to someone that does.
Most those players were playing against the like of Cardiff/Southampton a few seasons ago. Turner and Gunna and Fox etc made the right decision.

Concur

stupot07 · Oct 10, 2013

dongonzalos said:
...............Westwood
Keogh... Dann...Turner.....Fox
.Baker......Gunner Bigi ......Henderson(any other loanee)

...................Best King.............

Yes, I'd bet against that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

Nick · Oct 10, 2013

Do we actually know what happened behind the scenes? Are you saying Westwood retaliated to SISU because he wanted to stay here by probably tripling his wages and moving to the Premier League? I bet he was really hard done by....

So players leave because they don't get deals to their requirements, should we break the bank to pay players? Didn't that get us into a lot of mess in the first place?

stupot07 · Oct 10, 2013

dongonzalos said:
I think he would have been part of a team that could have got promotion to the premiership.

Unfortunately only a handful would be good enough for the prem as with most promoted teams.

He couldn't even cement a regular first team place in the championship.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

Sky Blue Kid · Oct 10, 2013

@ Torchy....Suck on this you prat......http://www.football.co.uk/coventry_city/westwood__i_won_t_be_bullied_rss1209849.shtml

torchomatic · Oct 10, 2013

I really couldn't give a flying F about "Westy". He's gone like all the others. Gone, gone, gone. And like some of the ones we have now, they'll be gone too. It happens to EVERY club, not just Coventry City. To say otherwise is deluded.

Sky Blue Kid said:
@ Torchy....Suck on this you prat......http://www.football.co.uk/coventry_city/westwood__i_won_t_be_bullied_rss1209849.shtml

Sky Blue Kid · Oct 10, 2013

NO! really? But you care about being shown something that that shows you FACTS! Your post calling me deluded has nothing to do with Westy going. It was purely an attack on my post! To say otherwise is deluded!!!

Bottling plan A not rent is the real issue (1 Viewer)

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