fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
It isn't really retrospective when the judgement relates to the rent in the context of current circumstance.
Diehard - Here's another fact. Sisu are required by LAW to pay the rent.
They own the club and running it "legally" is their first duty......making retrospective judgements on what was "fair" is neither here nor there and, as you say, propaganda.
Not sure if anyone is actually bothered but here are a few facts that the Trust has learned about the proposed deal and some background info.
1. The money in the ESCROW account was never paid into that account by CCFC, it was money allocated to the whole Ricoh development project as a grant from the FA. The amount was supposed to be £1m but as the building work was settled it was decided to cut the amount to 500k. The FA didn't want the money going directly to the club as this would have been unfair on other clubs but it was put into a Rent Guarantee Fund. This Rent fund became the ESCROW account. SISU have never put a penny into this account and neither did previous regimes.
2. Under the proposed agreement the ESCROW was to be reduced to £200K which CCFC/SISU would have had to top up
3. Rent was agreed at £400k for League 1 status with increases for Championship and Premiership. This rent included so called match day costs, except exceptional items such as underpitch heating. Club would still be responsible for costs of stewards and policing.
4. CCFC sold their right to any match day revenues when they sold their 50% stake in ACL to the Higgs Charity for £6.5m
5. The proposed deal was going to give CCFC ACL's share of the profits from the F&B, estimated to be worth around £100k per season, although the amount would vary with attendances etc
6. ACL offered to do the whole process on an open book basis so CCFC could have full access to the accounts so they could see what was going on
7. To assist CCFC with FFP ACL offered to cross invoice CCFC for the value of the revenue of the F&B so CCFC could show this in their books to offset wages against - for current season that would be around £650k
8. Under the proposed agreement CCFC would receive 900 car park spaces as part of the rent - they would be free to sell these on, estimated value to club £150k.
Hope this clears up some misconceptions etc that some of the protagonists from both sides seem keen on putting out there.
Cheap stadium? Erm....
And then that's where the conspiracies start. That if SISU get hold on the stadium, they'll chuck CCFC out, knock it down, redevelop and build the biggest brothel in the world. <evil laugh> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha....
This is where it gets silly. Which is why I could never understand the fools who wrote to Mutton begging that SISU not be allowed to buy into the Ricoh because of their fantasist delusions on what would happen to the City if they did.
It's all nonsense.
And you know this how
my guess is that turnover currently in concourse F&B is around 750k ........... but we have no proof one way or tuther............................Supposing this figure is correct or at least close, then to have an idea of what the club is missing out on you have to remove the cost of sales plus the profit margin. Its hard to quantify the costs exactly as much of the cost base would have been the equipment installed in all the booths round the ground after the contract was agreed { Amortized}, staff costs would be fairly low, waste { Unsold products} is quite considerable though as I've seen it being emptied into wheelie bins outside. Compass would also have preferential purchasing agreements with suppliers because of their sheer size as well. My guess even with a healthy gross margin is that the club are perhaps missing out on £300,000 per season.................something it has to be said is somewhere close to the wages of either a Gary Mac, Richard Wood or David Bell.
Not sure if anyone has responded to this as I haven't got time to go through all 12 pages but CCFC have made a comprimise due to the FFP rules coming in. How many fans (me included) have complained that the quality on the pitch has reduced as has the wage budget. Even the most Anti-SISU fans would agree that our wage bill is drastically lower than say 5 years ago (even if we were still in the Championship).
The club has reduced it's wage bill to manage the clubs finances in a better manner than they were under previous regimes (the reason why we're in this mess). We NEED to comply with these rules and are doing what we can. From my point of view, it seems as though ACL are not playing ball for some reason which isn't public knowledge.
WM
But I am not sure you understand what was being done................ CCFC get the matchday income in their records but it would have been cross invoiced to the EIC joint venture of ACL and Compass................. there would not be a normal profit as say selling in a shop........... the profit that CCFC would have would be ACL's share of the profit on matchday sales made by the joint venture. CCFC would need to buy back the right to income that they sold previously for it to be different.
sales 750K
Cost less profit concession from ACL 650K
Profit 100K
Football is not the way I'd like it, call m out of touch, but I don't think footballers should earn much more than a worker, nor sould managers, I don't think there should be transfer fees or agents in football, I dont think capitalists should put their nose into ANY sports, BUT they have, and what can I do about it!? I don't think football clubs should be allowed to run up so much debt, so I support much, much more stricter FFP, I think football, financially, needs to be more like Germany, even more radical tbh. The BBC should show every EPL game and the FL should get much more coverage and tickets should be more affordable. Football clubs should run to break-even or make profit, and should own their own stadia, that's why I support the club, local authorities, as well as capitalists should keep their nose out of the revenue streams. That's all I can recall for now, but as you can read, I don't like the way football is run, but again, what can I do, I can only make judgements within the context of the situation.
The Council were willing to buy shares and build the RICOH etc. and supported ACL with 14m, why didn't they support the club, let CCFC have the stadium and pay back the loan the council gave the club, rather than imposing a crippling rent, making zilch off our stadium on match day, the council haven't given us a fighting chance.
I also think we should adopt the trading system in USA, ironically, US sports is actually quite 'communist', with the drafting and trading players with salary caps (etc. etc.) systems they have in place.
I'm supporting the football club have supported since the tender age of 4, why should I support a the New Labour, neo-liberal council that has betrayed their own principles over my working-class football club!?
I don't like SISU, but they represent CCFC and are all we've got at this moment in time, so I'm obliged to lend them my support, especially when I think this instance, it is in the best interests of the club, also, CCFC need to make themselves attractive to investors, we're exactly the opposite ATM.
ACL are also capitalists, I'm choosing which capitalist to support, and the winner is the football club I support to which I'm emotionally bound to.
Actually as I understand it the money in the Escrow account is from a football grant that was supposed to go against the build costs but the council agreed could be used as the rental deposit.............. so did the football club ever pay it in the first place ?
SBTaylor says....The Council were willing to buy shares and build the RICOH etc. and supported ACL with 14m, why didn't they support the club, let CCFC have the stadium and pay back the loan the council gave the club, rather than imposing a crippling rent, making zilch off our stadium on match day, the council haven't given us a fighting chance.
Could the "Council" not backing SISU be they don't trust them to do right by the football club?....Like, only wanting the Arena. My opinion of course.....Along with a lot of others too?
Is ESCROW used with caps or not? If not, it wasn't meant to have an aggressive tone.
Who knows anymore!? As I understand though, that ESCROW was empty in the summer now has 500k (+match day costs) so maybe they have?
ACL may be capitalists, but not to the extent that SISU are. Venture capitalist and vulture funds are one of the things that is most rotten with capitalism. Surely the no-holds-barred exploitative type of capitalist that they are should raise some alarm bells as to their methods, motives and ethics? Are you really incapable of distinguising between scum like these and people like the Higgs Trust? SISU saw us as an easy cash cow-they fecked it up, they dug their heels in, and we are where we are today, suffering due to their greed and incompetence.
And you make the classic SISU fanboy error of assuming that they are CCFC/have CCFC's future at heart :facepalm:. Surely you can see given what they are that is quite impossible now? It's obvious that from their actions they have imperilled the club more than any other custodian, QED. Anyone who backs them is helping to sign our death warrant.
Link please......btw, the Escrow will only have £500k put back into it...So highly unlikely what you "Understand" to be true.
7. To assist CCFC with FFP ACL offered to cross invoice CCFC for the value of the revenue of the F&B so CCFC could show this in their books to offset wages against - for current season that would be around £650k
No, he (or was it Ashbyjan?) said escrow was originally filled with FA grant money-they were to give us £1m re stadium build, but as work completed, this was reduced to £500k.This has all come from OSB (I think, was it you OSB?), earlier on in the year, he (or she) said ESCROW was empty and had been empty for 'x' amount of time, but now it has money in it and now it's the FA grant or whatever?
My posts was in regards of helping the club out during the building of the RICOH when SISU weren't even in the picture and were under the ownership of Mr. Coventry.
see #164...OSB say this money was paid into the escrow account in 2005.So is TF claiming to of paid £800k this year, when £500k of that wasn't even ccfc money?
No, he (or was it Ashbyjan?) said escrow was originally filled with FA grant money-they were to give us £1m re stadium build, but as work completed, this was reduced to £500k.
They didnt want it paid directly to club, as they thought that was unfair to other clubs, but agreed it could be put into a fund to guarantee rent ie what turned out to be the escrow fund.
This has since been drawn upon by ACL in Lieu of unpaid rent from SISU, is empty, and should legally be topped back up
Another way of saying "Give CCFC the ground for free.....Much like SISU are trying to get the Arena for nothing atm?
Business is business. At the time you are talking about, nobody envisaged what was about to happen(Hindsight and all that)
ACL did help the club out...they threw CCFC a lifeline when it looked like we were going out of business. They didn't have to help out, but did.
Then along came the Wolves and Hyenas, stripped the club to the bone and...Voila!
So in reality, we have just paid match day costs!!! More spin by TF
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