Burge is going to give me a heart attack! (4 Viewers)

lifeskyblue · Sep 8, 2015

I've said before burge is probably not the best keeper in league one but he is not the worst either. As long as he is in the team we should be supporting him 100%. So far he has cost us no points but at some point I'm sure he will. Just as Bazza points out strikers and indeed defenders will cost us points through open goals missed and poor defending. Should we call on TM to drop JOB after him missing a penalty or tudgay for trying a lob instead of a shot. Or how about ricketts after he admitted the collective mistake for southends first goal (drop the whole defence and midfield I say) or drop Martin because he turned a cross into his own goal. No of course we shouldn't. If and when TM thinks burge is not up to the job he will replace him either with Reece-Cooke or someone on loan. It may be this weekend or next month or not at all this season. I say give the lad a break, give him some support and get behind him even if he makes a mistake.

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Nick · Sep 8, 2015

lifeskyblue said:
I've said before burge is probably not the best keeper in league one but he is not the worst either. As long as he is in the team we should be supporting him 100%. So far he has cost us no points but at some point I'm sure he will. Just as Bazza points out strikers and indeed defenders will cost us points through open goals missed and poor defending. Should we call on TM to drop JOB after him missing a penalty or tudgay for trying a lob instead of a shot. Or how about ricketts after he admitted the collective mistake for southends first goal (drop the whole defence and midfield I say) or drop Martin because he turned a cross into his own goal. No of course we shouldn't. If and when TM thinks burge is not up to the job he will replace him either with Reece-Cooke or someone on loan. It may be this weekend or next month or not at all this season. I say give the lad a break, give him some support and get behind him even if he makes a mistake.

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We aren't talking about single mistakes though are we?

People have been pointing out he isn't good enough for months.

SkyblueBazza · Sep 8, 2015

Nick said:
We aren't talking about single mistakes though are we?

People have been pointing out he isn't good enough for months.

TM can only go by the relative strength of the squad overall. There might well come a time that he thinks the keeper is too weak compared to the collective rest of the team or squad & then he will take action.

My main point is that yes its okay to recognise the keeper has weaknesses - only a fool would argue that he hasn't based on what we have all seen. BUT he is part of the team & should be applauded & praised for what the team has this far achieved not lambasted now for what we might not achieve further down line!

Seen it so many times in the past where an individual has become a fans scapegoat. It starts easily on threads like this - then quickly becomes confidence destroying at games, & it negatively impacts on the rest of the team too.

So let's just give all the guys praise & if they make a mistake just accept it!

If Burge literally picks the ball up & throws it into his own net - yes I will be as critical as the rest. Otherwise assume his intent is to give his all to keep the ball out of the net.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

Nick · Sep 8, 2015

SkyblueBazza said:
TM can only go by the relative strength of the squad overall. There might well come a time that he thinks the keeper is too weak compared to the collective rest of the team or squad & then he will take action.

My main point is that yes its okay to recognise the keeper has weaknesses - only a fool would argue that he hasn't based on what we have all seen. BUT he is part of the team & should be applauded & praised for what the team has this far achieved not lambasted now for what we might not achieve further down line!

Seen it so many times in the past where an individual has become a fans scapegoat. It starts easily on threads like this - then quickly becomes confidence destroying at games, & it negatively impacts on the rest of the team too.

So let's just give all the guys praise & if they make a mistake just accept it!

If Burge literally picks the ball up & throws it into his own net - yes I will be as critical as the rest. Otherwise assume his intent is to give his all to keep the ball out of the net.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

I don't doubt his intent and I wouldn't start hammering him during a game if he does something wrong. I do and would however praise him and applaud if he does something good like I would anybody else.

Astute · Sep 8, 2015

SkyblueBazza said:
TM can only go by the relative strength of the squad overall. There might well come a time that he thinks the keeper is too weak compared to the collective rest of the team or squad & then he will take action.

My main point is that yes its okay to recognise the keeper has weaknesses - only a fool would argue that he hasn't based on what we have all seen. BUT he is part of the team & should be applauded & praised for what the team has this far achieved not lambasted now for what we might not achieve further down line!

Seen it so many times in the past where an individual has become a fans scapegoat. It starts easily on threads like this - then quickly becomes confidence destroying at games, & it negatively impacts on the rest of the team too.

So let's just give all the guys praise & if they make a mistake just accept it!

If Burge literally picks the ball up & throws it into his own net - yes I will be as critical as the rest. Otherwise assume his intent is to give his all to keep the ball out of the net.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

I have been saying about Burge since last season. I am a keeper myself so I can see more clearly where he is going wrong. And if anything he isn't improving but going backwards. And if we are going to go forwards and challenge the top six for the first time I can remember something needs to be sorted. He flapped at 5 crosses last game. What does he need to do before people stop making excuses for him?

I always back our players at games. I normally back our players everywhere. If you can be bothered to look you will see that I don't normally say about players not being good enough. But we need to do something. And that is not backing him all the way just because he plays for us.

IrishSkyBlue · Sep 8, 2015

I think people are missing the whole point this thread what im saying is they were simple catches thats it very simple like you or me would catch them thats only issue i have with him, im not slating him just annoyed that for a professional goalie he drops that many in one game just makes me worried, as pointed out other teams see this he be bombarded with crosses and how long till it costs us a game.

SkyblueBazza · Sep 8, 2015

Fair enough...maybe practice will make perfect? There's no substitute for the real thing.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

larry_david · Sep 8, 2015

I think once he dropped one in the first half and then spilt a straight forward shot his confidence went. Burton should have been all over that second half. We've all played football where in the first 10-15 mins you make a howler, either control it and it bounces 6 ft in the air or slice a clearance out for a corner. Once you've done that in that match, the rest of the game it's on your mind that you'll do it again and I just think it mentally got on top of him.

What I will say though is the commentator actually slated Burge for coming out for the last one because he came out about 16 yards and dropped it when Reda was already there to head away. As the comm said, that was irresponsible for him to come that far and that is what is worrying. Had he lost his head from the early spills that much that he went into reckless mode?

Astute · Sep 8, 2015

SkyblueBazza said:
Fair enough...maybe practice will make perfect? There's no substitute for the real thing.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

But he isn't young. He is 23. He should be able to catch the ball by now. He should have been able to catch it for years. He should know when to come out and when to stay. If he doesn't think he will catch it he should punch it right up the pitch. The defence do not trust him. It makes their job much harder.

Hobo · Sep 8, 2015

IrishSkyBlue said:
I think people are missing the whole point this thread what im saying is they were simple catches thats it very simple like you or me would catch them thats only issue i have with him, im not slating him just annoyed that for a professional goalie he drops that many in one game just makes me worried, as pointed out other teams see this he be bombarded with crosses and how long till it costs us a game.

I agree they were simple catches against Burton and don't have a problem with people being worried about that performance.

what I thought was unfair was people trying to say he was at fault for a goal against Southend, when it was the defenders who were at fault. Also analysing the other goals conceded this year you couldn't say he was directly at fault for any. The comparison with the Southend keeper was unfair because the guy is exceptional and probably the best keeper in this league by a mile.

There is no doubt Burge is one of the weaker players in our team, but while Mowbray is waiting for a better option to materialise (this applies to all players) and keeps faith with him, we should support him. Every player performs off the foundation of confidence, so let's not destroy his. Otherwise we might shoot ourselves in the foot.

Astute · Sep 8, 2015

Hobo said:
I agree they were simple catches against Burton and don't have a problem with people being worried about that performance.

what I thought was unfair was people trying to say he was at fault for a goal against Southend, when it was the defenders who were at fault. Also analysing the other goals conceded this year you couldn't say he was directly at fault for any. The comparison with the Southend keeper was unfair because the guy is exceptional and probably the best keeper in this league by a mile.

There is no doubt Burge is one of the weaker players in our team, but while Mowbray is waiting for a better option to materialise (this applies to all players) and keeps faith with him, we should support him. Every player performs off the foundation of confidence, so let's not destroy his. Otherwise we might shoot ourselves in the foot.

Does that mean if we have a defender that keeps giving chances away, a midfielder that only goes backwards or a striker that keeps mis-kicking the ball you won't say anything but will back him all the way?

chiefdave · Sep 8, 2015

Mowbray isn't an idiot, he can see how Burge is playing the same as we all can. So either he doesn't think its a problem, prioritises the budget elsewhere or is looking for a replacement.

I would suspect the last option, we know he doens't rush into signings and waits to get a player of the calibre he wants, might just be making do with Burge until the right person becomes available.

My concern with Burge is he seems to lack confidence and the more mistakes he makes the worse that will get. Not seen much of RCC so can't really comment on bringing him in. Although judging by his twitter he certainly doesn't seem to lack confidence.

covcity4life · Sep 9, 2015

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp.../tony-mowbray-sticking-coventry-city-10017727

burge will start next game

Hobo · Sep 9, 2015

Astute said:
Does that mean if we have a defender that keeps giving chances away, a midfielder that only goes backwards or a striker that keeps mis-kicking the ball you won't say anything but will back him all the way?

You mean like Reda? Yes. As I said on a thread the other day I feel he isn't the finished article (and doesn't desrve the rep he has with the fans who are fixated with his good points, just as they are fixated with Burges bad points). But believe Mowbray will improve him over the season. Vincelot hasn't found his best form yet. Lamieras is mixed but has a lot of potential. Stokes has made mistakes but does a lot of good work. Phillips is still a bit raw but I don't tut when he is in the team.

Do I want these players dropped, no not on current form. I can see Burge's weaknesses as well as you and Burton wasn't his best....however it didn't merit two threads on the lad.

covcity4life · Sep 9, 2015

many fans didnt want reda tor esign,infact they said good riddance

yet you say everyone is fixated on his good points lmao

behave.

Hobo · Sep 9, 2015

I don't believe in dropping people for one bad game. Bar his goal Red a was awful against Southend. But much better against Burton.
People moaned about Tudgay and Martin coming in, but they have done a good job when required this season.

If RCC was given a game I would not be on here saying Burge has been hard done by.

However today Mowbray has said he won't be dropping Burgess because of a few fumbles against Burton and will give him a chance to work on his game.

I can understand why. Just as I can understand why he wanted the unfinished player Reda. Why he felt Stokes and Lamieras were worth signing.

covcity4life · Sep 9, 2015

goalkeepers cannot afford to make same number mistakes as outfield players. you MUST know this?

i also called for burge to start next game,so happy with gaffers decision

but lets be honest, he has been making mistakes since his debut and its been 1.5 years, this should not be ignored. i just hope he improves because hes a nice lad.

Otis · Sep 9, 2015

covcity4life said:
goalkeepers cannot afford to make same number mistakes as outfield players. you MUST know this?

Exactly. The goalkeeping position is a law unto itself.

A mistake by a keeper is by far and away more likely to result in an opposition goal.

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SkyBlue_Bear83 · Sep 9, 2015

It isn't just one game, no one is suggesting he has became a bad keeper overnight. The problem is that he was never any good to begin with.

IrishSkyBlue · Sep 9, 2015

Like i support him im not bad mouthing him im pointing out the mistakes that are bread and butter of goal keeping, id happily let him play next game if this doenst happen again and we win or if we lost wasnt his fault

Astute · Sep 9, 2015

Hobo said:
You mean like Reda? Yes. As I said on a thread the other day I feel he isn't the finished article (and doesn't desrve the rep he has with the fans who are fixated with his good points, just as they are fixated with Burges bad points). But believe Mowbray will improve him over the season. Vincelot hasn't found his best form yet. Lamieras is mixed but has a lot of potential. Stokes has made mistakes but does a lot of good work. Phillips is still a bit raw but I don't tut when he is in the team.

Do I want these players dropped, no not on current form. I can see Burge's weaknesses as well as you and Burton wasn't his best....however it didn't merit two threads on the lad.

If Reda was the finished article he wouldn't be playing for us. He would be playing at a higher level.

Hobo · Sep 9, 2015

Astute said:
If Reda was the finished article he wouldn't be playing for us. He would be playing at a higher level.

yes and nobody came in for him which is what he was holding out for, just as Mowbrey hinted he needed an answer by the end of the week, he signed. I suspect Mowbrey made it clear, in private, he would start looking at other options as Reda had long enough to make his mind up.

I wasn't bothered either way, as I felt which ever the outcome Mowbrey would make the signing a good one.

anyway Astute the above can be said of any player at the club.

Astute · Sep 9, 2015

Hobo said:
yes and nobody came in for him which is what he was holding out for, just as Mowbrey hinted he needed an answer by the end of the week, he signed. I suspect Mowbrey made it clear, in private, he would start looking at other options as Reda had long enough to make his mind up.

I wasn't bothered either way, as I felt which ever the outcome Mowbrey would make the signing a good one.

anyway Astute the above can be said of any player at the club.

Even the loans?

Mowbray has a pull on players we are not used to. And picking on other players doesn't take the heat off Burge. We all know he isn't good enough.

Hobo · Sep 9, 2015

Astute said:
Even the loans?

Mowbray has a pull on players we are not used to. And picking on other players doesn't take the heat off Burge. We all know he isn't good enough.

Astute I have said Burgess is the weakest player in the team I said in pre season I thought Mowbray will give him a go but bring a loan in come September.

All I object to is when people start posting every error a player makes. We have seen it with Burge Willis and Thomas. There will always be a weakest player in any team.

covcity4life · Sep 10, 2015

dont matter how many rational answers hobo gets, hes just gonna label everyone a hater.

Evo1883 · Sep 10, 2015

I actually think we can get away with burge being number 1 this season , he's not the best and has no command over his area or 6 yard box at all .
however if the club somehow gets promoted this season then he will be no good in the championship

Oz Howie · Sep 10, 2015

Any young player that gets 40+ games in a season will improve even Burge, it's the level of change that is a variable. I'd love him and TM prove all the goalkeeping coaches on here wrong.

Otis · Sep 10, 2015

Hobo said:
Astute I have said Burgess is the weakest player in the team I said in pre season I thought Mowbray will give him a go but bring a loan in come September.

All I object to is when people start posting every error a player makes. We have seen it with Burge Willis and Thomas. There will always be a weakest player in any team.

Just don't think you can afford to have your goalkeeper as your weakest player in the team. We know Reda regularly makes mistakes, as do Willis and Philips.

The defence we have is prone to mistakes, therefore we need the stongest keeper we can get behind the sticks.

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Hobo · Sep 10, 2015

covcity4life said:
dont matter how many rational answers hobo gets, hes just gonna label everyone a hater.

I think TM needs more persuading than me.

But when TM finds the right person I believe they will come in. He just won't jump at the first on offer, like he never jumped in for the over priced Clarke and Pope.

In the meantime I just don't believe on getting on a players back just because I can.

covcity4life · Sep 10, 2015

no one is getting on his back! have you been to a game this season? the crowd are as positive as i remmember in my lifetime

Hobo · Sep 10, 2015

covcity4life said:
no one is getting on his back! have you been to a game this season? the crowd are as positive as i remmember in my lifetime

Yes I have been to games this season. I am talking about the scrutiny he gets on here. Mowbray has come out and made comments so the club are obviously aware of the criticism he is getting.

I will leave you to your pet project now.

covcity4life · Sep 10, 2015

he is in a high profile position and mistakes will be mentioned. it does not mean anyone is getting on his back.

you are quite clearly related to him

SkyBlue_Bear83 · Sep 10, 2015

Hobo said:
Yes I have been to games this season. I am talking about the scrutiny he gets on here. Mowbray has come out and made comments so the club are obviously aware of the criticism he is getting.

I will leave you to your pet project now.

Mowbray has come out and made comments because he put in an awful performance, not to do with the criticism. Does Thomas and Finch get public backing from the manager as they have been under criticism for a much longer time frame than Burge?

Otis · Sep 10, 2015

The manager has to back him, as he would with any player in the squad.

I don't think Burge has been getting much stick at all and certainly not out on the pitch. I think nearly everyone has been very constructive in their criticism of the lad. I myself, don't think he's as bad as some have made out, but I don't think he is good enough if we want to be pushing for promotion or the play-offs.

I would be inclined to bring a more experienced, proven goalkeeper in and let Burge go out on loan somewhere.

Looking at the squad we have assembled now I would say the one weak link we now have is the goalkeeeping position.

If Burge plays, of course I will support him. I also say I don't think he is being made any kind of scapegoat at all. We've had the likes of Conor Thomas etc. become scapegoats and that's usually because they just have not done anything influential enough in a game to some people's thinking.

It is a fact the Burge was terrible on crosses last Sunday. You can't argue against that. They were 3 mistakes that could have all led to goals. We were lucky they didn't. You can't just ignore that and say 'oh, but we won anyway, so it doesn't matter.

We won against Burton in spite of Burge, not because of him and that erratic display cannot have done his confidence any good whatsoever.

Astute · Sep 10, 2015

Oz Howie said:
Any young player that gets 40+ games in a season will improve even Burge, it's the level of change that is a variable. I'd love him and TM prove all the goalkeeping coaches on here wrong.

And I would love to be proven to be wrong here and he has a good season.

Burge is going to give me a heart attack! (4 Viewers)

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