Burge is not good enough (1 Viewer)

Fully agree. Goalkeepers are expensive wage wise, good old heads can name their price. Leigh Burge has to be given at least half a dozen games and then the ex-Arsenal kid if Burge cocks up. As for his so called young age Peter Shilton was a Leicester regular at 19 following the footsteps of the great Gordon Banks no less, here at Cov.Les Sealey was thrown into a serious relegation fight at 19, some say kept us up. If Burge is to become a flop it will be evident on the training ground and in his first few matches into the season.

Burge isn't a new signing though like we would say give Vincelot a chance, he played a fair bit last season.

We can't just blame Lee Burge. We have to look at Oggy and how he's coached.

rupert_bear said:

Fully agree. Goalkeepers are expensive wage wise, good old heads can name their price. Leigh Burge has to be given at least half a dozen games and then the ex-Arsenal kid if Burge cocks up. As for his so called young age Peter Shilton was a Leicester regular at 19 following the footsteps of the great Gordon Banks no less, here at Cov.Les Sealey was thrown into a serious relegation fight at 19, some say kept us up. If Burge is to become a flop it will be evident on the training ground and in his first few matches into the season.

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Spot on Hamil,, its about balance and by the sound of it TM doesn't have much flexibility in the budget to cover all the bases,, Burge needs to improve all can see that.. But money there would effect another unit on the field,, so a decision has to be made by TM on where to place the money,, up top to get the goals or at the back to stop them.

And all this top 6 budget is bollocks to me,, that is just a way of SW keeping his job,, he will state we gave the tools and the manager didn't know what he was doing will be the call..Well that has been said about almost every manager we have had a part from Robbins i think, he just knew that support wasnt going to be given so jumped before being left to hang... TM has a massive job on,, burge is one of the reasons why, young kid learning the game is the mass of out sqaud as of now. Where do you fill the gap?, when and how long do you give a kid a chance to prove himself?. And lastly in a static club how much is confidence a factor of younger players not reaching the potential and skill sets they show which earned them a pro contract in the first place....

Mmmmm do we need a better/more experienced keeper or a couple of forward players who might bang in 20 goals a season? That is the dilemma I fear for Mowbray. Not enough cash to get all the players he wants or needs.


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lifeskyblue said:

Mmmmm do we need a better/more experienced keeper or a couple of forward players who might bang in 20 goals a season? That is the dilemma I fear for Mowbray. Not enough cash to get all the players he wants or needs.


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Goals win matches, clean sheets don't.

I actually think he will as he said start with Burge and if he is found wanting, might give the other fella a chance then loan a keeper in if needs be. There will be plenty of choice.

True. But clean sheets guarantee points, build confidence and mean you only need to score 1 to win. Most great managers talk of building teams from the back. But I would love to see a prolific striker at the Ricoh. As a say a real dilemma


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The thing with keepers is, in the first team you only need two really. Backed up by youth keepers. So by giving Burge the first few games at least, Mogga can see which keepers are not in use in the leagues above us. Therefore if Burge does not meet his expectations he might be able to loan a better keeper for peanuts. Money, Money, Money, is what its all about!

I've made my thoughts on Burge very clear on numerous occasions and nothing has changed. He really does stick out like a sore thumb and at league 1 standard that doesn't bode well for the future. Just how long are we going to give him to develop, costing us points by the bucket load?

This experience would be better served going out on loan to either a league 2 or conference side. There are certainly no potential suitors sniffing around from a higher level. The errors he continues to make should have been eradicated long ago which begs the question is it down to his sheer lack of ability?

I just cannot see what he has done to justify his 1st team place? The Telegraph sugar coat him, building him up as they do creaming their pants over any academy player who manages to force their way into the 1st team.

The thing is with Burge is that he hasn't forced his way in. He is there because we have no-one else. The same can be said for last season when Pressley and Waggott fucked around with both Allsop and Jones on the assumption that Kirkland was coming back. They unsurprisingly were left with egg on their faces when the former stated he was staying at Bournemouth where he would rather be 4th choice, with the latter moving to Rochdale.

Yes lack of goals are glaringly obviously our cause for concern and rightfully so, but keeping them out is just as important and for the 2nd consecutive season I am truly petrified about our current 'number 1'.

His supporters on here are biased by the fact that he has been with the club from an early age. Of course it's always nice to see homegrown talent but not to the detriment of the team and not when it isn't justified.

I won't repeat his lack of attributes as this appears to have been already picked up by numerous posters but if he is still between the sticks at Christmas I guarantee that he will have cost us at least 10 preventable goals, be it through handling errors, losing possession, lack of communication or sheer lack of ability.

Im a huge fan of Mowbray and I trust his judgment but he has a long way to go before convincing me and numerous others that this is the correct decision.

Happy to be proved wrong of course..

*Lee Burge - CCFC player of the season 2015/16 earns England Under 21 call up and move to Man City*

People are still only judging him on a small number of games... The fact this comes after his first friendly is a bit premature to say the least. No he isn't joe Murphy or Westwood, but we were blessed with those keepers...

Somebody point out who we should sign which would cost either nothing or as much as burge and is better?

we have 1 senior striker. We need at least 2 if not 3 more before we address the goalkeeping position. Even with a quality keeper in Murphy how many goals did we concede?

Look at the league table last year, apart from mk, Bristol and Preston, every team conceded at least 1.08 goals a game... We are not gonna be a top 3 team as we don't have the budget. We can't expect to be the strongest in every department we need to find a balance. We are gonna conceded on average 1+ goals a game, and to counteract that we need strikers before any goalkeeper.

i quite like burge, yes he has made mistakes, but so does every player, I am of the firm belief he can become a good quality goalkeeper given support, and experience. If I am wrong so be it, but his shot stopping isn't in question, and as for Claiming balls, he does it a hell of a lot more than Murphy did, so give the guy a chance.

I assume those who are championing Charles-Cook have justification? I have seen him play once and he looked good, however there are 46+ games in a season. Not dismissing the idea as he had rave reviews when at Nuneaton on loan and, while it shouldn't hold too much weight, was once on Arsenal's books. He obviously has potential, but is he ready?

I wonder if there would be such support for Burge if SP was still in charge? It seems the God-like regard TM is held in by some is potentially clouding judgement on Burge's ability? Sir Alex is one of the most successful managers in history, but he still signed, trusted and played Kleberson, Bebe, Nani, Djemba-Djemba, Taibi etc.

AFCCOVENTRY said:

Sorry have to disagree...goalkeeper is one of the most vital positons that needs to be right.

It's the only positon where it's just you...

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and can be easily fixed in the loan market if required.....more easily than other positions.

Hobo said:

and can be easily fixed in the loan market if required.....more easily than other positions.

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Loan market keepers on short term deals rarely work actually. We had a couple on full season loans that did but not having an established keeper for the season is a huge risk.

We have gone back to the levels of Dubec, Shearer and Hyldegard. I'm assuming we are actually not even signing a keeper. I'm assuming that as if we are and he is considered second to Lee Burge he is blind and has one arm.

AFCCOVENTRY said:

Sorry have to disagree...goalkeeper is one of the most vital positons that needs to be right.

It's the only positon where it's just you...

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yes but burge is a fantastic shot stopper Imo and although he lacks in some areas, it's not like he is making up the numbers. And so people shouldn't be crying about no exp when it's at max gonna cost us let's say 5 goals over a season?

Now would it be easier to find an exp goalie on cheap wages and still look for strikers?
or keep burge and get 3 strikers in of a decent standard?

In in an ideal world yes I would give burge a loan in league 2. But we don't have the budget, and we need strikers.

skybluegod said:

yes but burge is a fantastic shot stopper Imo and although he lacks in some areas, it's not like he is making up the numbers. And so people shouldn't be crying about no exp when it's at max gonna cost us let's say 5 goals over a season?

Now would it be easier to find an exp goalie on cheap wages and still look for strikers?
or keep burge and get 3 strikers in of a decent standard?

In in an ideal world yes I would give burge a loan in league 2. But we don't have the budget, and we need strikers.

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He is not a "fantastic shot stopper" - his positional sense is dreadful and he leaks near post goals all the time. With a striker bearing down on him on a one on one basis then you never think he will stop a goal happening. He is laboured in movement and his coverage outside the six yard box is highly suspect.

To say he is fantastic at anything is ridiculous.

Great_Expectations said:

I assume those who are championing Charles-Cook have justification? I have seen him play once and he looked good, however there are 46+ games in a season. Not dismissing the idea as he had rave reviews when at Nuneaton on loan and, while it shouldn't hold too much weight, was once on Arsenal's books. He obviously has potential, but is he ready?

I wonder if there would be such support for Burge if SP was still in charge? It seems the God-like regard TM is held in by some is potentially clouding judgement on Burge's ability? Sir Alex is one of the most successful managers in history, but he still signed, trusted and played Kleberson, Bebe, Nani, Djemba-Djemba, Taibi etc.

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You act like Nani didn't have a good career? He was brilliant for his first few seasons. As for the others, although he did sign them it's arguable as to if he trusted them: Bebe- 2 apps( AF never saw him play so obviously wasn't his signing)
kleberson-20 apps
djemba- 20 apps
Taibi- 4 apps and only brought in for cover due to injuries

burge compared to these is not a new signing, is having faith out In him from TM, who sees him everyday in training. If he felt he needed replacing he would be.

Are you suggesting you know more than TM? Tbh I have said what I have said since before TM came out. I believe burge has potential. Having seen him play he has the core principles in place to be a good keeper: problems like: kicking, coming for corners, and command of your area can be coached and learnt from experience.

skybluegod said:

You act like Nani didn't have a good career? He was brilliant for his first few seasons. As for the others, although he did sign them it's arguable as to if he trusted them: Bebe- 2 apps( AF never saw him play so obviously wasn't his signing)
kleberson-20 apps
djemba- 20 apps
Taibi- 4 apps and only brought in for cover due to injuries

burge compared to these is not a new signing, is having faith out In him from TM, who sees him everyday in training. If he felt he needed replacing he would be.

Are you suggesting you know more than TM? Tbh I have said what I have said since before TM came out. I believe burge has potential. Having seen him play he has the core principles in place to be a good keeper: problems like: kicking, coming for corners, and command of your area can be coached and learnt from experience.

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Playing the TM card is not really applicable is if? Managers at the top of their game still sign players that flop disastrously.

You acknowledge he needs areas to be coached on. The likes of Westwood Murphy etc. had played 100 league games at his age. I wonder why

Grendel said:

He is not a "fantastic shot stopper" - his positional sense is dreadful and he leaks near post goals all the time. With a striker bearing down on him on a one on one basis then you never think he will stop a goal happening. He is laboured in movement and his coverage outside the six yard box is highly suspect.

To say he is fantastic at anything is ridiculous.

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You are cloud by 3 matches in your opinion. Crewe, and the two games he conceded free kicks.

bar those 3 games his positioning can't come into question.
he leaks goals at his near post.... He conceded 2 at his near post that I can remember.
In a one on one, the goalkeeper isn't expected to save it, if he does it's a bonus but the striker should score. I have never felt with any goalie of ours that they would save them.
Laboured in movement, ohh yeah I love my goalie running all around too.
what do you mean his coverage outside the six yard box? Are you just looking for extra points?
maybe fantastic was over the top I admit, but he has made some fantastic stops when I have seen him play.

Grendel said:

Playing the TM card is not really applicable is if? Managers at the top of their game still sign players that flop disastrously.

You acknowledge he needs areas to be coached on. The likes of Westwood Murphy etc. had played 100 league games at his age. I wonder why

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So it's applicable for fans to say burge is shit but it's wrong for TM to say otherwise?
Yes but TM didn't sign him so if he was shit he doesn't have to take he blame and could replace him surely?

Okay just thinking off the top of my head... Ben foster? How many games had he played? Players develop at different rates and it depends on a managers faith in him. Burge was 18/19 when Murphy arrived, and that's young for a keeper. Murphy was the best goalie in league one and so burge had been blocked out until last season.

Grendel said:

Playing the TM card is not really applicable is if? Managers at the top of their game still sign players that flop disastrously.

You acknowledge he needs areas to be coached on. The likes of Westwood Murphy etc. had played 100 league games at his age. I wonder why

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I've said that in an ideal world we would get in a quality keeper, but tbh until we get in the required 3 strikers we shouldn't be worried about it, because it's all well and good not conceding but if we did spend what Limitied budget we have on a new keeper, we would still concede on average a goal a game, but not be able to repsond because we have fuck all up front.

skybluegod said:

So it's applicable for fans to say burge is shit but it's wrong for TM to say otherwise?
Yes but TM didn't sign him so if he was shit he doesn't have to take he blame and could replace him surely?

Okay just thinking off the top of my head... Ben foster? How many games had he played? Players develop at different rates and it depends on a managers faith in him. Burge was 18/19 when Murphy arrived, and that's young for a keeper. Murphy was the best goalie in league one and so burge had been blocked out until last season.

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Foster was never signed by a league one club and was on Manchester Uniteds books at 22.

Grendel said:

Foster was never signed by a league one club and was on Manchester Uniteds books at 22.

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I was giving a goalkeeper example not a league one example?

Another keeper per who I saw in the news today, Alex McCarthy I believe made about 60 first team apperacnes by the age of 22. Burge has made about 40 including his Nuneaton loan.
Mccarthy is now moving for around 4 million at the age of 25 goalkeepers develop later.

He is a Young player learnin a trade and like many who started at work were never fantastic first day or even after a couple of weeks.. His positional sense will come, his decision making will come his ability to see and anticipate will come, which in turn brings confidence.. Now to what level that will be at has yet to be decided, but one fact is if fans are on him ,, he will make every mistake and more as all of the above will take longer to develop.

So Should he be doing this at our club in our current state, probably not,, do we need another senior GK, probably, would he be better dropping down on loan, id say yes... But TM will make the call and deal with the situation as it is, he gets paid to make these decision and he will be judged on them. In my opinion is Burge shouldn't start the season but i would not say he is a failure and will not step up, but right now it might be the wrong club at the wrong time for him..

I mean if we had the ability to go and sign the players we need this would not even be a topic or post as Burge would be playing with the U21's...

There really is no need to over analyse the Burge situation. He doesn't excel in any area of goalkeeping, granted he is young but signs of ability/progression haven't been evident. TM has deemed him competent enough to start this season in goal and has stated that if he makes mistakes - which he probably will - he will be dropped. I think we would all like an experienced reliable keeper - Joe Murphy - to be brought in, but whether it is to do with budget allocation or the fact TM has seen something in him during pre-season, for now he is the number one.

Andy Turners view of him in the Portsmouth Match


Mowbray has given Lee Burge his vote of confidence and the young goalkeeper looked good in his first run out of the pre-season.

He was left badly exposed for both Pompey goals but made a couple of reflex stops and again demonstrated good handling and command of his box as he claimed numerous high balls.

It’s a huge season for the 22-year-old who needs to cement his position as City’s first choice custodian and he’s clearly determined to achieve that ambition after picking up where he left off last term.

dongonzalos said:

Andy Turners view of him in the Portsmouth Match


Mowbray has given Lee Burge his vote of confidence and the young goalkeeper looked good in his first run out of the pre-season.

He was left badly exposed for both Pompey goals but made a couple of reflex stops and again demonstrated good handling and command of his box as he claimed numerous high balls.

It’s a huge season for the 22-year-old who needs to cement his position as City’s first choice custodian and he’s clearly determined to achieve that ambition after picking up where he left off last term.

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Ah yes, where he left off last term... The Crewe game; where he almost single handedly saw us drop into League 2 . That paper doesn't half chat some bollocks.

rupert_bear said:

Fully agree. Goalkeepers are expensive wage wise, good old heads can name their price. Leigh Burge has to be given at least half a dozen games and then the ex-Arsenal kid if Burge cocks up. As for his so called young age Peter Shilton was a Leicester regular at 19 following the footsteps of the great Gordon Banks no less, here at Cov.Les Sealey was thrown into a serious relegation fight at 19, some say kept us up. If Burge is to become a flop it will be evident on the training ground and in his first few matches into the season.

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......and Les Sealey had glaring weaknesses at that age like the near post at corners and could be flappy with crosses....but excellent shot stopper who showed a lot of 'potential'.

I wouldn't say Burge is better than Sealey was far from it, but we weren't playing in Lge 1 either

Hobo said:

......and Les Sealey had glaring weaknesses at that age like the near post at corners and could be flappy with crosses....but excellent shot stopper who showed a lot of 'potential'.

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I wouldn't have thought Sealey made many appearances before 22 would he?

Grendel said:

I wouldn't have thought Sealey made many appearances before 22 would he?

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He did, but then Gordan Banks didn't and neither have lots of goalkeepers.
I think Burge has lots of weaknesses and has shown progression. I think most importantly, TM knows it is a position he can get cover for with a loan if necessary and will spend his budget on attacking players.

People bang on about Burge and Worcester...but conveniently forget The mighty Reda missed a penalty . He also cost us points with a red card for a needless headbutt and got a suspension.

Grendel said:

I wouldn't have thought Sealey made many appearances before 22 would he?

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Wasn't he in his teens when he made his debut?

skybluetony176 said:

Wasn't he in his teens when he made his debut?

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I said "many" - I'm pretty certain Jim Blyth made most appearances in 77/78 and up to the point he got injured prior to the sale to Man Utd that broke down. By then he was 22.

I would think he was then pretty much ever present until leaving.

Grendel said:

I said "many" - I'm pretty certain Jim Blyth made most appearances in 77/78 and up to the point he got injured prior to the sale to Man Utd that broke down. By then he was 22.

I would think he was then pretty much ever present until leaving.

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Keep your knickers on, I didn't say you didn't. It was all before my time but when Kirkland broke into the first team I remember the camparison being made so I was just asking the question of the back of your question.