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Butts Park Arena - put up or shut up !

Grendel said:
I used the word arsetute once to highlight the juvenality of name calling and childlike terms like Grendull. Perhaps you'd like to do another poll?
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As in does Grendel add any value to this forum?
 
Well your plan has worked Grendel. Nobody is talking about the state of our club now.

I still think that Wasps want us out unless we pay a lot more rent. They are starting to get into the position that Richardson got us into.
 
Grendel said:
Lol - I was going to reply to each point but given you've admitted you are proud of acl and proud of the council I guess why waste my time.

To compound your problem you've had a like from a fellow CCFC hating council sponsored troll.
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Yep anyone who stops a business half owned by a children's charity charity getting screwed over makes me proud. No issues with saying that. Quite happy to repeat every time you and Nick bring it up.
 
AFCCOVENTRY said:
Here's the problem.

Go to the Butts or stay at the Ricoh. Either way we don't own our stadium. All the Butts is doing is giving better revenue streams possibly.

I still feel this is a negotiation tactic to get revenue streams from the Ricoh.

Ultimately nothing will happen till Sisu drop legal proceedings.
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Agree with most that except I am still to be convinced on revenue streams at the Butts.

Thinking out loud on revenue streams.......
Most the revenue stream income will come from the profits on F&B sold to fans.
Why don't we just not drink at the Ricoh and every pint we have elsewhere all week we just chuck in an extra £2 towards the club funds ?
Still thinking......
Why don't the club buy the old club across the roundabout from the Ricoh and all drink in there pre match.
Lots of CCFC events on the other 365 days.
Reality hits home ....
Scrub that, Sisu would need to buy it first and they don't do that sort of thing.
 
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dongonzalos said:
Yep anyone who stops a business half owned by a children's charity charity getting screwed over makes me proud. No issues with saying that. Quite happy to repeat every time you and Nick bring it up.
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The council screwed the charity by offering to only extend the lease when they sold their share. There really is no hope is there?
 
dongonzalos said:
Yep anyone who stops a business half owned by a children's charity charity getting screwed over makes me proud. No issues with saying that. Quite happy to repeat every time you and Nick bring it up.
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Sorry to pull you up on this, but its a real misnomer that the Higgs is a children's charity....it isn't. They support a range of initiatives....not specific to children.
 
Grendel said:
Yep once - other than when I refer to saying it once

If you do not believe me use the search facility - comes up with once. Shall I use it for Grendull?

Trust, Young Fans Good idea
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So your search only brought it up once? So now you are innocent?:smug:

I don't care how many people have called you Grendull how many times. You are dull and you deserve everything you get with the insults you throw around. I bet you are twice your real height when hiding behind a keyboard.
 
Grendel said:
The council screwed the charity by offering to only extend the lease when they sold their share. There really is no hope is there?
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SISU have screwed us. Couldn't bring yourself to admit it could you?
 
Astute said:
So your search only brought it up once? So now you are innocent?:smug:

I don't care how many people have called you Grendull how many times. You are dull and you deserve everything you get with the insults you throw around. I bet you are twice your real height when hiding behind a keyboard.
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That would make me 11'6 - I'm happy with my intellectual height thanks.
 
Grendel said:
The council screwed the charity by offering to only extend the lease when they sold their share. There really is no hope is there?
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Would they have been allowed to increase the length of lease when they still owned 50%?
 
Grendel said:
Never CCC for you is it?
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Stop being a prick. Had enough of you today. So how is it nothing to do with CCC when it is all sides?
 
Rusty Trombone said:
Would they have been allowed to increase the length of lease when they still owned 50%?
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Why would they have wanted to? They didn't want the Ricoh. They ended up with it only as security to what CCFC owed them.
 
Rusty Trombone said:
Would they have been allowed to increase the length of lease when they still owned 50%?
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Yes they could. Why couldn't they? More to the point why didn't they start with that lease period to begin with?
 
Grendel said:
Yes they could. Why couldn't they? More to the point why didn't they start with that lease period to begin with?
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If I wanted to buy ACL and then the Council increased the lease so that the value and presumably the price increased, I'd question the fairness of that. If I had a reputation for battering people in court, I may test this perceived unfairness.
If you're right though and they could have done this with no risk, it's ridiculous that they didn't.

Doing it to begin with is a different matter, it seems clear that would have been better for ACL.
 
Astute said:
Why would they have wanted to? They didn't want the Ricoh. They ended up with it only as security to what CCFC owed them.
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So now your saying they never wanted it in the first placed and had to just have it to make sure the club paid everything back.

They must have paid virtually all of it back didn't they? Why isn't it ours then?
 
Grendel said:
So now your saying they never wanted it in the first placed and had to just have it to make sure the club paid everything back.

They must have paid virtually all of it back didn't they? Why isn't it ours then?
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Who has paid virtually everything back?
 
Astute said:
Who has paid virtually everything back?
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Well the club has paid how many years - 9? So pretty much most of the apparant £10 million shortfall.

Now I know exactly what your going to say but of course two alternate plans were drawn up the funding of ACL - one the dreaded albatross of a loan- and the other less talked about alternative.

Remind me what was that alternative?
 
Grendel said:
Well the club has paid how many years - 9? So pretty much most of the apparant £10 million shortfall.

Now I know exactly what your going to say but of course two alternate plans were drawn up the funding of ACL - one the dreaded albatross of a loan- and the other less talked about alternative.

Remind me what was that alternative?
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How many years did we pay 1.2m?

How was the shortfall only 10m?

The other alternative was Richardson not selling HR. But we were 60m in debt and he needed the money to keep us going. We couldn't afford to build a new stadium. But you always defend Richardson.
 
Astute said:
Who has paid virtually everything back?
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Grendel have you ever thought how much pain SISU inflicted on Higgs / CCC prior to WASPS, Lucas Mutton & Co are politicians not business people, they have reputations that were going to be sorely tarnished if they gave into SISU. SISU weren't being reasonable and IMO were beyond negotiating with, Northampton proved the extent to which they were prepared to go to get their way. The morality of it etc.. the impact on CCFC of selling to WASPS but when it gets nasty and personal things like this happen and unfortunately it has. Who knows whether a more conciliatory approach would have worked but SISU's tactics are worse than a Slade Boothroyd double act
 
Astute said:
How many years did we pay 1.2m?

How was the shortfall only 10m?

The other alternative was Richardson not selling HR. But we were 60m in debt and he needed the money to keep us going. We couldn't afford to build a new stadium. But you always defend Richardson.
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God now it's Richardsons fault.

We weren't £60 million in debt when we actually got to the Ricoh so what on earth has that to do with anything? When we arrived at the Ricoh debts were nowhere near £60 million.

Mcginnity sold the rights to Highfield road by the way.
 
shy_tall_knight said:
Grendel have you ever thought how much pain SISU inflicted on Higgs / CCC prior to WASPS, Lucas Mutton & Co are politicians not business people, they have reputations that were going to be sorely tarnished if they gave into SISU. SISU weren't being reasonable and IMO were beyond negotiating with, Northampton proved the extent to which they were prepared to go to get their way. The morality of it etc.. the impact on CCFC of selling to WASPS but when it gets nasty and personal things like this happen and unfortunately it has. Who knows whether a more conciliatory approach would have worked but SISU's tactics are worse than a Slade Boothroyd double act
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What about pre sisu? There was an existence at the Ricoh before. the leader of the council at the time, Ken Taylor, decided that sisu were the only offer that the club could consider. So they were an approved chkuce.

Anyway move back and when the club requested a rent reduction they were denied that by the same council.

True isn't it?
 
Grendel said:
God now it's Richardsons fault.

We weren't £60 million in debt when we actually got to the Ricoh so what on earth has that to do with anything? When we arrived at the Ricoh debts were nowhere near £60 million.

Mcginnity sold the rights to Highfield road by the way.
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So it wasn't Richardsons fault that we were 60m in debt when they kicked him off the board?

We were only about 30m in debt after McGinnity sold players among things. But it was Richardson who put us in debt. It was Richardson who sold HR. But you love to defend him and say he did nothing wrong.
 
Grendel said:
What about pre sisu? There was an existence at the Ricoh before. the leader of the council at the time, Ken Taylor, decided that sisu were the only offer that the club could consider. So they were an approved chkuce.

Anyway move back and when the club requested a rent reduction they were denied that by the same council.

True isn't it?
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So answer the questions to the statement you made.

How many years of rent at 1.2m did we pay?

Why did you say that the shortfall was only 10m?
 
Astute said:
So it wasn't Richardsons fault that we were 60m in debt when they kicked him off the board?

We were only about 30m in debt after McGinnity sold players among things. But it was Richardson who put us in debt. It was Richardson who sold HR. But you love to defend him and say he did nothing wrong.
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Richardson didn't sell the rights to Highfield road at all and the bank debt never exceeded £20 million.

Oh and administration would have wiped all dents but I guess mr Mginnity had his Pels to think of.
 
Astute said:
So answer the questions to the statement you made.

How many years of rent at 1.2m did we pay?

Why did you say that the shortfall was only 10m?
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In think we paid 10 years. The contribution was £10 million. The £21 million loan was entirely down to the council as was the choice to put the lease at a very restrictive 50 years. That suppressed value as did the choice to have a £21 million loan.

Now you are astute. So what was the other option instead of the loan the council could have done according to the original council documentation?

Go on what was it?
 
Grendel said:
In think we paid 10 years. The contribution was £10 million. The £21 million loan was entirely down to the council as was the choice to put the lease at a very restrictive 50 years. That suppressed value as did the choice to have a £21 million loan.

Now you are astute. So what was the other option instead of the loan the council could have done according to the original council documentation?

Go on what was it?
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The £21M was for kitting out the stadium.
I can understand why you deflect that as Sisu do the same when they want everything but don't want to pay for anything.
Keep on bigging them up and putting everybody else down.
I reckon with bonuses you have already earned this years £100K. Watch Tim don't get jealous.
 
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