Can we compete (4 Viewers)

covboy1987 · May 9, 2020

I think and hope we will be promoted and deserve to be promoted on a number of fronts -
We were the best team in the division with a massive handicap an incredible achievement playing all our home games at St Andrews with fantastic support both home and away - Once the celebrations have died down club obvious questions will be asked and difficult decisions at boardroom level will be discussed

(1) Can & will the owners bank roll the club through this difficult period particularly of we do not play in front of paying public for possibly 12 - 18 months?

(2) Are we going to play back in our home city firstly at the Ricoh and when?

(3) Further Investment to be competitive in the Championship on transfer fees and higher wages will be required (Championship teams made a total operating loss of 510 million last year) I estimate we will have to invest a minimum 15- 20 million as we haven’t really got anyone to sell worth a lot of money to help with the figures

clint van damme · May 9, 2020

covboy1987 said:
I think and hope we will be promoted and deserve to be promoted on a number of fronts -
We were the best team in the division with a massive handicap an incredible achievement playing all our home games at St Andrews with fantastic support both home and away - Once the celebrations have died down club obvious questions will be asked and difficult decisions at boardroom level will be discussed

(1) Can & will the owners bank roll the club through this difficult period particularly of we do not play in front of paying public for possibly 12 - 18 months?

(2) Are we going to play back in our home city firstly at the Ricoh and when?

(3) Further Investment to be competitive in the Championship on transfer fees and higher wages will be required (Championship teams made a total operating loss of 510 million last year) I estimate we will have to invest a minimum 15- 20 million as we haven’t really got anyone to sell worth a lot of money to help with the figures

I do't want the owners, whether it's sisu or someone else bank rolling a ridiculous shot at the Premiership if they're going to load the debt onto the club and saddle us with an unsustainable wage bill.
If they wan't to spunk their own money up the wall go ahead but I'd rather the club try and be sustainable. We're still recovering from the last gamble that didn't work out.

Gynnsthetonic · May 9, 2020

Millwall done ok since promoted, they are on the verge of the play offs and I wouldn't of thought a massive wage bill, I dont think Brentford do either so yes there is a model to follow and it doesn't mean we will automatically come straight back down.

jackdg · May 9, 2020

The best hope for us is the EFL doling our points dedications for the numerous supposed breaches of the financial fair play rules in the Championship. It’s rumoured a number of teams could be punished (Blues, Sheffield W, Derby amongst them)

I think otherwise we will do well to finish 20th without investment that otherwise risks our own future.

The Philosopher · May 9, 2020

SISU might think it time to sell up.

Champ clubs with potential are the ones which tend to get bought up, L1/2 not so much.

I think the Government will be looking to support infrastructure / construction projects to get the economy moving again and building a new stadium becomes a little less unrealistic.

WRT player / squad costs and staying up, we proved against BHAM that we weren’t out of their league and a few decent loanees added would probably see us safe.

Couple of years of being sensible and sorting out the foundations and then push on.

Irish Sky Blue · May 9, 2020

I think we would have to rely on the management duo producing a team that plays well above their financial station, something I think that they are capable of doing. I noticed that Robins, in one of his lockdown Q and A sessions, said that this year's budget was no where near a lot of clubs in the third tier. Despite this they have produced the best team playing the best football. I would hope that they are capable of continuing to pull footballing rabbits from the hat that have the quality of Walsh, Dabo, Rose et al.
I would think we had the basis of a team that could survive already.
Marosi, Dabo, Rose, Hyam, Allen, Walsh, OHare(I know the last two probably won't be here) from this year's team I think could play the level above. I also wouldn't write off the ability of Kelly, Shipley, MC Fadz, Westbrooke and Jones to move up another gear. It may be a step too far for Godden, Biamou and Bakayoko although even the latter two caused Blues a lot of problems over the two cup games.

skybluepm2 · May 9, 2020

I think they’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. People will openly criticize the owners if they don’t go out and spend millions on a proven 20 goal striker and at the same time as Clint said above, if we are left to recover from a gamble that doesn’t pay off there will be uproar. It was great to see them spending a small fortune when they initially came in on the likes of Fox, Danne, Gunnarsson etc but the result of the failure to even get into the play-offs has left us languishing at the wrong end of the FL for the best part of a decade so I’m fairly sure they won’t want to make that mistake again. I think they can see the potential the club has and if they’re patient they’ll reap the rewards.

Nobody expects us to be challenging immediately. Staying up and pushing for mid-table would be an incredible achievement. Personally I don’t think we are too far away from having that squad already, particularly if we are able to add O’Hare and/or Walsh (unlikely I know) plus another goal scorer, as well as holding onto the likes of Dabo and Rose. I just hope Robins is given time even if next season is a disaster and we end up going down. The Championship has changed significantly since we went down and to try and compete with some of the spending ability just isn’t going to happen.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · May 9, 2020

This question was asked 2 seasons ago upon our return to League One. I have full confidence we’ll be able to compete

SlowerThanPlatt · May 9, 2020

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
This question was asked 2 seasons ago upon our return to League One. I have full confidence we’ll be able to compete

Completely different isn’t it? We would have gone into League 1 with already a very competitive budget and amongst the largest crowds?

Irish Sky Blue · May 9, 2020

skybluepm2 said:
I think they’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. People will openly criticize the owners if they don’t go out and spend millions on a proven 20 goal striker and at the same time as Clint said above, if we are left to recover from a gamble that doesn’t pay off there will be uproar. It was great to see them spending a small fortune when they initially came in on the likes of Fox, Danne, Gunnarsson etc but the result of the failure to even get into the play-offs has left us languishing at the wrong end of the FL for the best part of a decade so I’m fairly sure they won’t want to make that mistake again. I think they can see the potential the club has and if they’re patient they’ll reap the rewards.

Nobody expects us to be challenging immediately. Staying up and pushing for mid-table would be an incredible achievement. Personally I don’t think we are too far away from having that squad already, particularly if we are able to add O’Hare and/or Walsh (unlikely I know) plus another goal scorer, as well as holding onto the likes of Dabo and Rose. I just hope Robins is given time even if next season is a disaster and we end up going down. The Championship has changed significantly since we went down and to try and compete with some of the spending ability just isn’t going to happen.

It isn't Sisu's reluctance to splash millions on the team that brings them criticism. It is the way that they have cynically used the club to try and get their own way that makes most fans dislike and not trust them. I'm not going into it all again but their history is there for all to see.

Magwitch · May 9, 2020

We have good players, we play a good system well, Robins has earmarked new players to suit his system, we have a crop of good youngsters coming through, also I think financially we will compete going to be some radicle changes in all leagues too, my hope is the prem come to a no relegation decision which will help us. I think this so called strong powerful championship is overrated, and don’t talk Luton, Barnsley and Charlton also overrated we’ll be okay

Grendel · May 9, 2020

Millwall as an example have a £17 m wage bill. It’s inconceivable we’d be able tk have anything like that level of payment

Brentford finances are a mess - don’t seem why Millwall have such a high revenue though as wages seem relatively under control though I think they have added £3m to the wage bill since this was published

lord_garrincha · May 9, 2020

With what is going on, next season could be absolute chaos... and where there is chaos, there is opportunity!

Stick to 361, and hope we can get Walsh (or equivalent), and we may be good!

skybluepm2 · May 9, 2020

Irish Sky Blue said:
It isn't Sisu's reluctance to splash millions on the team that brings them criticism. It is the way that they have cynically used the club to try and get their own way that makes most fans dislike and not trust them. I'm not going into it all again but their history is there for all to see.

Oh I wasn’t for a second backing them or saying that wasn’t the case, just that in terms of running the football side of things they won’t (and shouldn’t) resort to their original plan of saddling the club with even more debt be it from transfer fees or excessive wages. I want them gone as much as anybody else, if not more. Besides, the model that Robins and Adi have adopted means that we shouldn’t have to.

Adge · May 9, 2020

Throw everything into the pot and it will be a miracle if we survive if we went up.
Major surgery is required to the squad, something unfortunately we can’t really afford, and/or the owners wouldn’t be interested in if a court case isn’t involved.
Best for all parties is a sale of the club but realistically what is a potential purchaser buying? Potential/fan base that’s all really.

Grendel · May 9, 2020

Adge said:
Throw everything into the pot and it will be a miracle if we survive if we went up.
Major surgery is required to the squad, something unfortunately we can’t really afford, and/or the owners wouldn’t be interested in if a court case isn’t involved.
Best for all parties is a sale of the club but realistically what is a potential purchaser buying? Potential-that’s all.

Even a sale would mean huge loans to allow the club to compete - we’d never raise the revenue needed so we’d have to borrow - no one hands money for free

Nick · May 9, 2020

Grendel said:
Even a sale would mean huge loans to allow the club to compete - we’d never raise the revenue needed so we’d have to borrow - no one hands money for free

Yeah but we want somebody to throw money in and if we don't win we can demand they walk away without anything back.

Grendel · May 9, 2020

Nick said:
Yeah but we want somebody to throw money in and if we don't win we can demand they walk away without anything back.

The best thing is probably to try and make some smart out of contract signings and try and offload fringe players but restrict the wages to the lowest in the league and hope to survive

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · May 9, 2020

SlowerThanPlatt said:
Completely different isn’t it? We would have gone into League 1 with already a very competitive budget and amongst the largest crowds?

Different yes. But I’d fully back us to compete with the 2 teams that come up with us - Hull, Stoke, Birmingham Reading.

im not necessarily saying compete at the top, but I back us to compete well against relegation

Sky Blue Pete · May 9, 2020

The model is clear. Competing in the championship will mean initially finishing just above the relegation places. And that would be a quite unbelievable achievement given the financial position. Ccfc need to be self sufficient the budget will be set and robins will work miracles as he has done in the last 3 years especially this season. I don’t think we truly appreciate the job he and Vivash have done this last season. Sure for every Dabo there’s the potential Kastaneer. But so many hits

marosi
Dabo
McCallum
Rose
Mcfadzean
Walsh
Ohare
Godden

To name a few and then to play so well it’s bloody marvellous. We shouldn’t forget this season in all the mess of the virus

stupot07 · May 9, 2020

Gynnsthetonic said:
Millwall done ok since promoted, they are on the verge of the play offs and I wouldn't of thought a massive wage bill, I dont think Brentford do either so yes there is a model to follow and it doesn't mean we will automatically come straight back down.

This was the wage Bill's for last season. Given that our turnover in the championship will likely be around £12-14m,we will likely be in the bottom 4 wage Bill's in the league. Brentford for example spend 135% of their turnover on wages.

We will be reliant on smart purchases and creating a unit that plays beyond its wage value. Survival will be success next season if we do get promoted.

Heres a good twitter thread on Reading in the championship

.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · May 9, 2020

I mean take McCallum for instance - Norwich says if we got promotion he becomes a 10m player.

possibly sell Rose for big money to fund a few signings?

Grendel · May 9, 2020

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I mean take McCallum for instance - Norwich says if we got promotion he becomes a 10m player.

possibly sell Rose for big money to fund a few signings?

Rose would attract little in the transfer market - even Dabo you’d struggle to get a couple of million until they look like they can play at this level but we’d have to raise cash for wages

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · May 9, 2020

Grendel said:
Rose would attract little in the transfer market - even Dabo you’d struggle to get a couple of million until they look like they can play at this level but we’d have to raise cash for wages

I wouldn’t say they’ve shown any less than McCallum did

mrtrench · May 9, 2020

I would think it's very unlikely that we'd throw all our financial rules away if we are promoted. There will be a bit more to spend and my guess is that a realistic aim in year 1 would be to avoid relegation. If we want to compete at the top end we'll need to build slowly as we have been. Spunking money around doesn't guarantee anything other than losses. We already have a few players who can compete at that level IMO. Apart from a few positions (Left back and striker again IMO) I expect relatively small changes to the side next year. This depends on managing to keep Walsh and O'Hare though - two who I think would make the step up.

SlowerThanPlatt · May 9, 2020

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I wouldn’t say they’ve shown any less than McCallum did

They are buying development potential with McCallum. If he can perform at a decent level in League 1 with his age in mind the thinking is that in 2-3 years he could be playing at a higher level.

Rose will be 25 in October

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 9, 2020

It will be difficult, but if crowds aren't being let in that could benefit us if we're at St Andrews as other clubs will be seeing significant reductions in gate and F&B income in comparison to us. So it becomes more about using the budget astutely and I have faith in MR to do that pretty well. Plus if other teams are in the same position out-of-contract players may become more affordable and players we had no chance of signing may now be within reach.

That's not to say I'm expecting us to be massively competitive but certainly gives us a better chance of staying above the drop line. We'll need to upgrade a few of the team probably (Fadz would struggle with Championship strikers IMO and as always a striker upgrade) but we've got the basis of a half-decent squad.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · May 9, 2020

SlowerThanPlatt said:
They are buying development potential with McCallum. If he can perform at a decent level in League 1 with his age in mind the thinking is that in 2-3 years he could be playing at a higher level.

Rose will be 25 in October

Then I’ll take that back - I thought Rose was 21

lord_garrincha · May 9, 2020

Grendel said:
Rose would attract little in the transfer market - even Dabo you’d struggle to get a couple of million until they look like they can play at this level but we’d have to raise cash for wages

About right, the reason for our success was the whole was stronger than the sum of our parts. Like last season, loans will be vital.

Paxman II · May 9, 2020

As always the pessimism is rife from Sky Blue fans. I seem to recall the same people stating we could not compete in league 1 because other teams had higher budgets.
Going into the championship will require some astute ability to buy and sell and a budget increase for sure. But the notion we will be woefully unable to do this is ridiculous.
Of course we can. It is not all about the highest wage bill you can pay. Our coaching and management ability has been spot on from Robins and Vivash and I expect that to continue.
The current squad with a few tweaks and a couple of quality players added for this level, will make us easily good enough to compete in the championship. Loans will also provide us a few quality players. My positive side even thinks we could have a surorisingly good season with our momentum and threaten a playoff place. What I have seen of the championship frankly is not that great.

As a footnote. I said way back when on the topic of SISU, that once they returned us to the championship, got us back at the Ricoh, they would look to sell CCFC. I still beleive that will happen. So comfortable survivalor mid table would be an ideal target to encourage this to happen.

samccov1987 · May 9, 2020

Next season is such a hard one to call with everything that’s going on. Prior to Covid I would have said we’d be in a battle to stay up as I couldn’t see us increasing our budget without a move back to the Ricoh and or increasing season ticket prices significantly.

Now working on the assumption the season starts late September I think that if we go up we may have a chance of staying up. The financial Armageddon facing professional sport means wages/transfer fees may all have a correction which could help us; especially if we’re still in Birmingham.

There’s also the possibility of a significant number of championship clubs facing sanctions; although I have a suspicion that these may be dropped to ensure there are no major casualties given the problems already facing clubs.

Gut feel is next season we’ll stay up however the underlying issue about where we play remains. Can sisu keep us in Brum another year waiting for the Wasps to go pop.... probably.

skybluesam66 · May 9, 2020

we will fly next season
so many teams struggling for money, whilst our budget will double due to championship tv money

Spurs 'City Away Kit' Kit · May 9, 2020

samccov1987 said:
Next season is such a hard one to call with everything that’s going on. Prior to Covid I would have said we’d be in a battle to stay up as I couldn’t see us increasing our budget without a move back to the Ricoh and or increasing season ticket prices significantly.

Now working on the assumption the season starts late September I think that if we go up we may have a chance of staying up. The financial Armageddon facing professional sport means wages/transfer fees may all have a correction which could help us; especially if we’re still in Birmingham.

There’s also the possibility of a significant number of championship clubs facing sanctions; although I have a suspicion that these may be dropped to ensure there are no major casualties given the problems already facing clubs.

Gut feel is next season we’ll stay up however the underlying issue about where we play remains. Can sisu keep us in Brum another year waiting for the Wasps to go pop.... probably.

And looking at the last set of Wasps financial results that could be areal possibility, it you take out the CVC money they received they don't look to be in a great position and heading in the wrong direction.

In the Accounts they highlight losing revenue from the RFU for elite and development players as a significant financial risk and if you look at the players they have lost this will hurt, and the RFU financial position means they won't be throwing money around as much too. Scraping into the Champions Cup (if it's played) next season may give them a little lifeline!

Legia Sky Blue · May 9, 2020

If we are promoted, this current situation could work to our favour, and give us a better chance of competing than in any normal season. BCD games will badly affect those Championship clubs with the highest expenditures, and clubs will have to make tough decisions about maintaining those high costs at the genuine risk of the existence of those clubs, or drastically cut costs, which will inevitably affect their on field capability. Some will probably go into Administration and face the requisite points deduction.

In our situation we start with a much lower wage bill, and do not stand to lose as much as our potential rivals by staging BCD games. This in turn will equalise some of the disadvantages we would otherwise face, and good management will then come to the fore. We need to maintain the upward momentum, and use the feel good factor following this season, as a means of putting us on the front foot next season, something our Championship rivals will struggle to replicate.

Ring Of Steel · May 9, 2020

Fuck me- nothing gets the blood flowing on here more than a chance to dissect & analyse why things are about to go terribly wrong. We would stay up, absolutely no doubt about it.

Can we compete (4 Viewers)

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